Is Islam Dying? Europe Certainly Is

From the desk of Paul Belien on Wed, 2006-09-20 23:11

Dr Koenraad Elst, one of Belgium’s best orientalists and an occasional contributor to this website (if I had time I would translate more of his Dutch-language contributions into English), told me last week that he thinks “Islam is in decline, despite its impressive demographic and military surge” – which according to Dr Elst is merely a “last
upheaval.” He acknowledges, however, that this decline can take some time (at least in terms of the individual human life span) and that it is possible that Islam will succeed in becoming the majority religion in Europe before collapsing.

I am not a specialist of Islam. Hence, I do not know what to think of this analysis. Perhaps it can be argued that Islam is in agony, and that this is precisely the reason why Muslims reacted so sensitively to twelve, mostly inoffensive, Danish cartoons earlier this year and why they respond in a fury beyond all reason to the words of a 14th century Byzantine Emperor quoted last week by Pope Benedict XVI. The Pope emphasized that he did not approve of the quote, but the reactions of Muslims to the Emperor’s words “Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman,” only lends credibility to what the Emperor said.

If a person is incapable of tolerating criticism, including mild criticism, and especially if he perceives criticism where there is none, this is often a sign of this person’s deep psychological insecurity. Rude aggression and wild rage, too, are usually not the normal behaviour of a self-confident person, but rather of someone who knows that he will lose an argument unless he can bully others into silence. Last Sunday, Catholics going to Holy Mass in London’s Westminster Cathedral were confronted by Christophobic Muslims, carrying hate posters such as “Pope go to hell,” “Benedict watch your back,” “May Allah curse the Pope,” “Jesus is the slave of Allah, “Islam will conquer Rome,” and the like. An English blogger has some photos here. What must one make of these Muslim protestors? Do they look like self-assured people?

It looks as if Muslims cannot cope with an open society and the modern globalized world. Should we interpret their aggression – the result of their inability to cope with the world – as a token of strenght, or rather as a sign of inherent weakness – a sign, as Dr Elst says, that the decline of Islam has visibly begun?

Last weekend a 24-year old Moroccan woman was assaulted in Antwerp by a group of male Moroccan youths. They began by reproaching her for not wearing a headscarf. When she answered back, they beat her up. When the police intervened to protect the woman the officers were attacked by about thirty youths hurling stones. Fortunately, the officers were able to relieve the brave woman and escort her to hospital. She has meanwhile been discharged from hospital, though one dreads to think what may await her when she returns to her own community.

“We have no figures, but we notice that there are more and more incidents of verbal abuse towards Muslim women by male immigrants who cannot stomach that they do not wear the veil,” says Sven Lommaert of the Antwerp police, in one of today’s papers: “Often the abuse is limited to insults, but sometimes the women are attacked.”

However, Dominique Reyniers, the spokeswoman of the Antwerp judiciary said: “If violence is used a complaint is sometimes lodged. Verbal abuse, however, is obviously not a crime. Hence, we cannot say that there is a rise in this kind of incidents.” Ms Reyniers is saying that intimidating and bullying people is not a crime, unless one beats them up. If Dr Elst is right, and the intimidation of adversaries by the islamists is a proof of Islam’s inherent weakness, the refusal of the West to stand up to the bullies and to defend and protect their victims is proof of an even greater weakness.

I am inclined to suspect that the intolerance of radical Muslims, even if directed against the ‘enemy’ in the West, such as Danish cartoonists and the Pope, is primarily intended to intimidate and terrorize people who grew up in Muslim societies and families, in order to prevent their apostasy. It is intended to show the latter that they need not hope for any support from the West, i.e. from authorities such as those represented by Ms Reyniers.

Perhaps, as Dr Elst fears, Islam in its stage of decline might, by the mid-21st century, succeed in conquering Europe and becoming the old continent’s dominant religion. In this knowledge one slogan of last Sunday’s Islamic hatemongerers in London may be more than just hate speech: “Islam will conquer Rome” may be prophetic. Here, however, we ourselves are to blame, because Islamists will not find it difficult to conquer Europe. Christianity in Western Europe has virtually ceased to exist. The spirit of secular relativism that originated from the French Enlightenment has persuaded Europe (including Europe’s churches) to commit a protracted, two centuries long suicide, the symptoms of which were visible in Communism, National-Socialism and moral relativism in general.

Man is a religious being and needs religious faith. If European Christianity had still been healthy today it would have proselytized, it would have reached out with missionary zeal to the millions of Muslims who migrated to Western Europe since the 1970s, it would have offered them Christ. Instead, it’s churches became bastions of religious relativism. Europe offered the newcomers only cultural decadence, from which decent people want to shield their children, and spiritual emptiness, which one can only despise.

The Europeans, who lost the missionary zeal to reach out to the immigrants, also lacked the zeal to pass on their own civilization to their offspring. Worse still, they lacked the zeal to have offspring. Since demographics is the mother of all politics, it is, barring a miracle, certain that Islam will become the old continent’s dominant religion.

Unless Europe rediscovers its will to survive – and it may already be too late (though as a Christian I do not exclude miracles) – soon furious Islamists may be holding sway over Europe in much the same way as the Taliban did over Afghanistan, removing all visible remnants of pre-Islamic culture. The Cathedrals of Europe may share the fate of the Buddhas of Bamiyan. Christian works of art may be destroyed. Surely, a faith that forbids the depiction of human figures will be offended by the Christian art of medieval Europe and the nudes of the Renaissance. Perhaps it is wise to seriously consider salvaging as many European cultural treasures as one already can, before it is too late, and bringing them to safety elsewhere.

Kapitein Andre - 2

Submitted by Mission Impossible on Tue, 2006-09-26 07:31.

[... continued from 1]:- What I was highlighting was something different: illegal immigration from regions well outside Europe, having little cultural affinity. I was also referring to the trafficking of male immigrants, and not specifically girls for prostitution.

Only some of the girls you are referring to end up in Israel, and not "many," as you have put it. I understand World Cup fans in Germany were well served by the girls you have in mind, and with official blessing.

Your 4th problem: Canada has little or zero relevance to the discussion of aggressive Mexican territorial ambitions vis-a-vis mass and illegal immigration. Recent demonstrations in several US States in support of Amnesties for Illegals bear this out. Mexico is yet another political basket case. Only the War of 1812 had a "Manifest Destiny" objective. The northern border was settled in 1846 (Oregon Treaty).

Following the Mexican-American war, the Republic of Texas was annexed in 1845; although continental Democrats argued for annexing all of Mexico. Mexico ceded California, Arizona, Utah, Nevada in 1848, settling the southern border (south Arizona was purchased). Hence my original point on Mexican immigration to the USA is fully justified, due to the very different way in which the southern border was formed: conquest and cession.

Your last problem? We cannot change human nature Andre. Maturity requires us all to be both cognizant and accepting of it. As you may have noticed, Left-wing apologists unceasingly fail to meet this requirement.

@Kapitein Andre - 1

Submitted by Mission Impossible on Tue, 2006-09-26 07:18.

Your carefully manicured responses, posted Sunday last, suggest if I don’t respond you will be upset.

Your 1st problem: Multicultural melting pot? There is really no such thing. It always was a figment of contemporary left-wing theology and its mouthpieces: the MSM & Pop Industry. Making irrational leaps from one category to another (e.g., me pointing out another source of mass immigration into Europe, and your interpretation of this as hostility to all interracial relationships) does not strengthen your argument. And, there is no "certainty," as you have tried to claim.

Statistics are not really required, as most observant people over the age of (certainly) 40, who have also travelled extensively, will testify to this reality.

All united and all Westernized? You have a very pollyannaish (and misinformed) view of the fragmented innards of western society. You have attributed facts to a wish.

Your 2nd problem: Escaping famine? The vast majority of those suffering famine in Africa, hail from the north east of the continent, and Zimbabwe. The vast majority of Africans crossing the seas in order to illegally enter Europe, are from its central and western regions. Disease has been prevalent in Africa for millennia. Self-inflicted wars does not give them justification to claim refuge in Europe. They just need to stop fighting. Gibson? I never drink & drive.

Your 3rd problem: The Ukranian situation has been known for 15 years. Russian girls are not "trafficked," they belong to mafia or are recruited through agents, as are most Romanians. In 2001, I helped save 3 Romanian ladies from a bad situation in Al-Ain, UAE. What you are highlighting is (mainly) the movement of other Europeans (or those with cultural affinity to Europe. [continued ...]

@Mission Impossible 2

Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Sun, 2006-09-24 08:01.

The USA is being swamped by Mexicans who believe the lower third of the continent historically belongs to them anyway. Official and semi-official Mexican government policy is geared up to promote a continuance of this flow of humanity.

Well, the Americans believe that Canada belongs to them as per Manifest Destiny, and that didn't work out did it?
 
Meanwhile, Canada advertises in every South Asian, Arab, and East Asian newspaper & magazine for immigrants; she is the Queen of compassionitis.
 
Well if North America is going to be the site of the next chaotic and confusing Thirty Years War, then Canada must do its part to get all the parties nice and cozy.
 
Can this insanity last much longer?
 
No. And as we have seen with your comments, while God, Capitalism, and country may be serious points of argument - conflict starts with primal things such as skin colour, tribe, and nation.

@Mission Impossible...

Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Sun, 2006-09-24 07:59.

We have waves of African males risking a watery death in order to do menial jobs and have the chance to chase sex hungry white girls, which have been "promised to them" whilst watching porn videos. Miscegenistic porn DVDs (pirated copies) sell by the truck load in Black Africa.

 

I see the topic has moved from Islamism to miscegenation (please provide statistics and cite sources for your info). Are you against interracial relationships?

I was under the impression we were discussing civilizational not phentypic differences...Certainly the United States is a multicultural melting pot of Whites, Hispanics, Blacks, and every other ethno-racial group on Earth - all united all Westernized. Right?

 

They are convinced, white women want them in Europe. They might be correct.

Oh. So they don't come then for welfare or better economic opportunities or to escape famine, disease, or war? And how do you know what White women want? Are you Mel Gibson?

 

We have gangs based in the old eastern Europe, getting rich running lucrative Human Trafficking operations. The people they ship usually come from farther afield, such as India and China.

Actually, most girls trafficked are Russian, Ukrainian, Romanian, and Moldovan - the traffickers are their own countrymen, Turks, and Jews. Oddly enough, many of these girls forced into prostitution end up in Israel...

Islamic hate crimes more frequent in India

Submitted by Invite_Jesus on Sat, 2006-09-23 01:47.

You all must read this-
"Jul 06, 2006 Deccan Chronicle. Trouble erupted when two police constables deployed near the Rajiv Gandhi flyover in Bhiwandi were stoned and their skulls broken open by an angry muslim mob, which also burnt 7 State transport buses.The trouble erupted over the construction of a police station on land adjacent to a graveyard and the biggest mosque in the city."

Yes, the islamic savages had to show their barbarism by attacking the cops so brutally and having "their skulls broken open".

Islam is not dying but is the fastest growing religion

Submitted by Invite_Jesus on Sat, 2006-09-23 01:40.

Islamists boast theirs is the fastest growing religion in the world. It is true because in Asia and Canada, they are evangelising in an aggresive and even violent manner much like Pope had quoted.

It is hard to see traditional Indian dress 'saree' being worn but you see most Hindu women wearing the same **islamic** dress that pakkis wear. The islamic women wear talebanized dress of afghans - full cover. Hence, **one billion** of India has been islamized as you all in EU may not be vigilantly aware of Asian developments. (The pakki leader Ayub Khan (?) banned 'saree' for all pakki women many decades ago).

Preaching Gospel to the islamists makes the best sense!..! Deny money/favors/concessions unless churches can be built in the land of the pakkis, afghans, turks, ..etc!!..!! Pope then is sure to have some degree of 'reciprocity'!!

@CivilClasher Part 2...

Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Fri, 2006-09-22 15:14.

>Fourthly, the clash with Islam is merely a numbers game which has more to do with race and class than religion. Indeed, Muslims are just the vanguard of a Third World population explosion that is causing disastrous patterns of migration i.e. into the West. Your faith in Christianity somehow stemming the tide is unfounded; indeed this act would be in and of itself &quot;un-Christian.&quot; Unfortunately, the only European systems capable of engineering such massive demographic changes were National Socialism and Marxism-Leninism. When the time comes, I'd feel a lot safer with a group of soccer hooligans around me than nuns.</p>

Yes, demographics are

Submitted by CivilClasher on Sat, 2006-09-23 01:32.

Yes, demographics are destiny. But why are relatively rich Europeans not reproducing while poor Muslims are? Shouldn't a rich society reproduce more than a poor one? And why do Europeans allow immigration policies that will eventually wipe out the native cultures? Immigration policies are not written in stone. They can be changed if the people demand it.

This is where faith in Jesus would be a factor...in that it would foster a strong identity that society would understand as good and deserving of protection. It would also give believers a sense of hope for the future that would be confirmed by a higher birth rate. Do Europeans have hope for the future today? ...seriously, I'm asking in all sincerity.

And I don't think limiting immigration is un-Christian because when/if Islam took over Europe, there would be no freedom of religion. There would be no freedom to choose or deny Jesus. In fact, there'd be no freedom to even hear the Gospel. Europeans seem somewhat anti-religion (correct me if I'm wrong!) but there is still religious freedom.

* * * *

In terms of whether Christianity or Islam is inherently more prone to violence, I think it helps to understand the teachings (and actions) of their founders - Jesus and Mohammad. I do this briefly here: http://www.clashofcivilizations.net/?page_id=17 It's kind of a fun exercise.

If you haven't already, I'd suggest reading Robert Spencer's Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam. Or Trifkovic's The Sword of the Prophet. They do a lot to dispel the notion of a benign Islam where Jews and Christians played happily in fields of daisies under the loving eye of their Muslim benefactors. I think these notions are inventions of our multicultural mindset.

Thanks for the exchange!

Third World Population Explosion, That's Our Fault Too!

Submitted by Mission Impossible on Fri, 2006-09-22 17:56.

@ Kapitein

Indeed, Muslims are just the vanguard of a Third World population explosion that is causing disastrous patterns of migration i.e. into the West.

Fully agree with that thesis. Definitely part of a suite of reasons why Europe is the place to go for the Third World. And, let's not forget the enticement of Welfare.

Whilst we still have to bear in mind Bat Ye'or's disclosure of the French inspired agreements with the OIC following the Yom Kippur war (open door to Arab immigration) all we have to do is look in other directions.

We have waves of African males risking a watery death in order to do menial jobs and have the chance to chase sex hungry white girls, which have been "promised to them" whilst watching porn videos. Miscegenistic porn DVDs (pirated copies) sell by the truck load in Black Africa. They are convinced, white women want them in Europe. They might be correct.

We have gangs based in the old eastern Europe, getting rich running lucrative Human Trafficking operations. The people they ship usually come from farther afield, such as India and China.

The USA is being swamped by Mexicans who believe the lower third of the continent historically belongs to them anyway. Official and semi-official Mexican government policy is geared up to promote a continuance of this flow of humanity.

Meanwhile, Canada advertises in every South Asian, Arab, and East Asian newspaper & magazine for immigrants; she is the Queen of compassionitis.

Can this insanity last much longer?

Trafficking sources

Submitted by Invite_Jesus on Sat, 2006-09-23 00:59.

Referring to- "We have gangs based in the old eastern Europe, getting rich running lucrative Human Trafficking operations. The people they ship usually come from farther afield, such as India and China," I must say it is mostly pakkis and chinks who are flodding even LATIN AMERICA. With leftists leaders of Brazil, Bolivia, Venezuela, more islamists are bound to take over and run over Catholic Latin continent.

@CivilClasher...

Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Fri, 2006-09-22 15:14.

Firstly, your "perspective from the States" is actually not that unusual on this blog...

 

Secondly, Islam's current aggressiveness and sheer hatred of other groups has not been a constant fact of life. Indeed, in medieval Europe, heathen groups were either killed or converted, yet Christians, Jews, and other religious groups lived in various Muslim Empires e.g. under the Ottomans. Christians can quote scripture to me all day or argue theory about whether Islam or Christianity is more prone to violence and hatred; however, Christianity was "sold" to the Germanic tribes (e.g. Clovis' Franks) as a war god in order that the Catholic clergy secure physical protection from the inheritors of the defunct Western Roman Empire. A god that assisted you in battle was all the Teutons understood, and it worked for Clovis so he was baptized - tell me that this was a "religion of peace." Tell me if the pagan Prussian tribes considered it "peaceful" when the Teutonic Knights decimated their numbers in the name of Christianity. 

 

Thirdly, the scientific method was derived from ancient Greco-Roman knowledge kept safe in monastic communities (and often received from Muslim scholars). The "revivals of learning" using these texts in Northumbria, Aachen, and Fulda, paved the way for the Italian Renaissance, after which science increasingly pushed out religion. Certainly Christianity was more compatible with science than Islam (which ultimately elected to reject it = today's crisis), but Christianity's claim to fame lies in its universal cosmopolitanism - the ideas of egalitarianism not found in Ancient works.

 

A Perspective from the States

Submitted by CivilClasher on Fri, 2006-09-22 05:15.

Well, I'd certainly like to know why Dr. Elst would think that Islam is in decline. Especially since today's Islamic agression - which he apparently sites as evidence of a burnout - is nothing new or unusual. Just more of the same.

I couldn't agree more with Paul that since Europe abandoned its guiding belief in Jesus [not Christianity, but Jesus], it has experienced one calamity after another.

It especially pains me that so many Europeans (and Americans for that matter) feel that Christianity is irrational...and a rejection of the 'enlightened' mind. I would, to the contrary, argue that Christianity gave birth to the Enlightenment and to science in Europe. And that rejecting Christianity is rejecting the source of the West's intellectual progress.

In any case, a belief in Jesus is not a call to arms. And it's not a means to an end - even a worthy end such as a defense of European civilization. So it would be wrong to encourage people to 'find Jesus' so you can defeat Islam. What a horrible proposition!

However, if Paul's miracle did happen and Europeans did re-discover the faith of their fathers, they also would understand better what is is good in themselves and what deserves protection.

BTW, I'm looking for European input to a new international site (http://www.clashofcivilizations.net/). If anyone is interested in posting periodic updates on the situation in Europe, let me know.

Cheers!

Indeed...

Submitted by marcfrans on Thu, 2006-09-21 22:57.

@ Bob Doney

Indeed, empirical observation is the 'key' to survival as 'free' (and therefore potentially 'moral') people.  And, as you know, the British have a very strong philosophical tradition of 'empiricism'.  The continentals, sadly to say because I am one of them, have generally had great difficulty with the notion of empiricism and tend to go off in ideological unwordly 'theoretical constructs' and wishful thinking.  As for 'Jari' and most other muslims, they haven't even begun to grasp the idea of empiricism itself.  So, history will continue to repeat itself endlessly (until, we pray, they do).

You are right that you didn't say anything about "churches". My mistake. Sorry! I mixed you up with the 'captain' (Kapitein Andre) on that point. He is the one who did use such 'categories' (but not the exact word "churches" though). And I considered you both equally wrong on this philosophical subject.

easy on him, continental, he is brittish..

Submitted by Jari on Thu, 2006-09-21 19:51.

The Universe? 'A' deity? You laugh at your own sillyness.

A human is not an ape. If you are seriously asking yourself questions right here, you are making me laugh at you.

I guess...

Submitted by marcfrans on Thu, 2006-09-21 16:27.

@ Bob Doney

...that I was wrong, in my last paragraph, to trust you to be smart enough to know that my text did NOT mean that one should trust everyone who thinks (or says) that they are religious".   And, who said anything about "churches"?.  Do you confuse medical knowledge with the actual behavior of medical doctors?  

Unfortunately, I cannot force you to read slower and think about what you are reading.  Perhaps, too many 'secular' dogmas stand in the way (besides all the 'religious' ones)?

Eh?

Submitted by Bob Doney on Thu, 2006-09-21 17:06.

I haven't mentioned "churches" in any reply to you...

Bob Doney

Really, Bob!

Submitted by marcfrans on Thu, 2006-09-21 16:12.

@ Bob Doney

Your assertion that "people don't need religious faith" is a kind of 'faith'. Admittedly it is not a "religious faith", but it certainly is 'faith', and - on the face of it - not particularly more reassuring than many kinds of religious faith.

Religious faith does not necessarily (have to) mean 'belief' in certain claims about Muhammad, Jesus, the pope, the Dalai Lama or whoever/whatever. But, it certainly involves a belief that life has a source, an origin, a meaning, an 'explanation'. Sadly, the fact that the complete explanation may be largely unfathomable for limited minds like ours, does NOT mean that people do not need a belief in the existance of the meaning/explanation. Surely, people need that belief. For, if they don't, then there is no longer a sensible reason to even try to 'understand' human nature, and there is no longer any basis for 'morality'. Who was it again who said that "if God is dead, everything becomes possible"? And, he meant 'everything', as recent history (say the last century) has very clearly shown.

But, if you are an 'agnostic', I will consider that a kind of 'hopeful belief', and trust therefore that you will still try to be 'good'. Otherwise, I couldn't trust you for one second, under any circumstances, and I would have to apply Reagan's dictum about the Godless 'communists' when he said tongue-in-cheek: "trust, but verify". I trust that you are smart enough to realise that this does not mean that one should trust everyone who thinks (or says) that they are 'religious'. I am afraid one will always have to make judgements irrespective of the labels people use, based on empirical observations of their actual behavior.

Empirical observation

Submitted by Bob Doney on Thu, 2006-09-21 17:01.

To Marcfrans

As I read your piece I was wondering how best to reply. Fortunately you have provided the perfect response in your own words!

"I am afraid one will always have to make judgements irrespective of the labels people use, based on empirical observations of their actual behavior."

Exactly so. So if it doesn't matter what other people "believe", but it does matter what they do, then why shouldn't I apply the same rule to myself. It doesn't matter what I believe when I'm listening to a Bach chorale or in the still of the night; what does matter is what I do the following day when I get up!

What does make me smile is the "belief" that a deity who launched the process which led at some point to the Big Bang (or lots of Little Bangs according to the latest theory) some fourteen billion years ago should "care" about our planet and the 6 billion silly naked apes who are its very temporary tenants. That takes a lot of believing, and I just don't have it in me.

Bob Doney

Hear Hear Bob!

Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Thu, 2006-09-21 15:34.

Christianity has nothing to do with "saving Europe from the Muslims," it is merely a numbers game brought on by the demographics of immigration and global population trends. Part of Western civilization is the subordination of religious to national and individual (rational-scientific) interests. Using an Christian revival against Islam is akin to fighting Communism with National Socialism. While I praise the Christian Right for having a goodly amount of "balls," on this issue, the tensions are fundamentally of an ethnic nature - and will resolve themselves as such. Abrahamic religion adapted itself to the culture of the nomadic Arab tribes as much as it did to Europe, where the Germanic tribes and their successor states overwhelmingly (for the most part) endorsed the Reformation (unlike the neighbouring Poles f.e.).

Really?

Submitted by Bob Doney on Thu, 2006-09-21 14:44.

"Man is a religious being and needs religious faith."

There are a lot of people who aren't religious and don't "need" religious faith.

Over to you...

Bob Doney

believe it or not

Submitted by Jari on Thu, 2006-09-21 16:11.

Try this one Bob: Man is a believer. If Man does not believe that he will wake up next morning - he has got a problem. And if man is a believer, he might as well shape its belief in a form that is rooted in history and shared by others. Why not?

One might argue however, that there is a difference in the quality of beliefs, measured by the grade in which a belief corresponds with reality. The idea of a man with a grey beard that decides on the universe is offcourse ridiculous, UNLESS i would argue that i am a man with a grey beard indeed, and that the universe is my own projection ..

I assume that the confusion of these two very different perspectives, has been largely caused by a Christianity which has tried to force its belief on every single individual, even the dumbest, leading to a 'stupidification' of its whole system.

Muslims in Europe, i guess, suffer even more from such an intellectual disease, because they need their faith to survive in a foreign environment.

I'm a believer (not)

Submitted by Bob Doney on Thu, 2006-09-21 16:20.

Fascinatingly enough most of us wake up the following day whether we believe we are going to or not. Even babies, who don't believe anything much, do this.

And believing it does not make it so. I might believe I can fly (or move mountains), but I can't.

Bob Doney

Yeah, and look at what not

Submitted by oiznop on Thu, 2006-09-21 15:43.

Yeah, and look at what not being religious is getting Europe..Self loathing doubt, anger, guilt, politcal correctness and leftest ideals that nearly destroyed the continent over 60 years ago, which will happen again with this big mess that is going to get bigger if they don't wake up.....and again, guess who will have to come and save the day???......

60 years ago

Submitted by Bob Doney on Thu, 2006-09-21 16:15.

I really don't see what religion or the lack of it had to do with what happened 60 years ago. There were believers and non-believers on all sides.

And there is plenty of political correctness, leftism and all the rest of it both inside and outside the present-day churches.

Bob Doney

Does Europe have the balls

Submitted by oiznop on Thu, 2006-09-21 13:56.

Does Europe have the balls to defend itself, though...that is the question....It appears that the writing is on the wall, and they don't....It boils down to self loathing and guilt brought on by excessive liberalism.....Europe is cutting it's nose off to spite itself because of leftist, socialist ideas that are raceist, antiquated, and vengeful, and have no place in the modern world..Don't worry, once the perverbial shit hits the fan, the USA will come to the rescue like it always does (in our infinate stupidity)...then maybe Europe as a whole will see the light..(sure!)...As for the "Religion of Peace", it's stuck in the 7th century....Their adapting to the modern era is not likely to happen...You have a better chance of getting me to believe that global warming exists.....

Oiz

P.S. Can someone tell me when Chirac comes up for re-election in Frogistan???....Just curious...hopefully the people will wise up there,and vote him out, but then again, I ain't holding my breath!

Chirac

Submitted by Bob Doney on Thu, 2006-09-21 16:24.

First ballot 22nd April 2007. Second ballot (if required) 6th May 2007.

If Chirac is a candidate, I'll eat my beret.

Bob Doney

Please Reject Your Fatalism and Pessimism!!

Submitted by Mission Impossible on Thu, 2006-09-21 10:10.

Paul, you have carried more pressures on your shoulders, and endured more threats to your person and family, than most people might conjur up in a bad dream. But, even that does not excuse you to sound so fatalistic and pessimistic. I have never been to Belgium, and having read the comments of others, I have no wish to visit the "capital" of Europe. I'd rather shut it all down. End the silly socialist project! Perhaps Brussels is not conducive to optimism?

Islam's meteoric rise in Europe is not a foregone conclusion, and we must think positively. Remember, it is only since the turn of this century that we have awoken from our hedonistic slumbers. You cannot turn everything around in just 5 or 6 years. We on the conservative side of thought are gaining in strength daily. Already, changes in tone in the MSM can be detected. Fjordman has already pointed out, we could easily deal with all threats and suicidal fashions within a few short months, but only after more of us gain the will, and after we have installed political leaders with the balls to act.

Should we take astrology seriously or not? One respected astrologist has already predicted the end of the EU. Its demise is due in the next 3 years. So, let's increase the pressure. We should not scoff at having the planets on our side!!

We cannot rush history. History has already chosen its dates. We cannot know what they are. It might take another 6 years, perhaps less. What we have been doing, and what we are trying to do (increasing understanding & awareness) is the correct strategy. That is one sure way of bursting the dam that prevents the majority from drinking the waters of truth & enlightenment. Islam will fade. We may even see its death. Of course it is already dying. The petro-dollar gave it a new lease of life. We should look after our own and have no pity for the fate that awaits the Cult of Mohammed. But, it is the Socialists who should fear the future the most!

Wishy-washy Dr.Elst

Submitted by logicalman on Thu, 2006-09-21 09:12.

"Islam would rise before it falls" is as good as "some times it will increase, other times it will decrease".

I'm willing to bet some Christian nudes will be destroyed by Muslims when they have the power. But even then Old Europe would still be too weak to revolt, having become dhimmis. But then the true God will intervene - See Revelation chapter 18, wherein the Great Harlot (representing false religions) is killed. Who knows.