European Left Is More Dangerous for Jews than the European Right

From the desk of Soeren Kern on Tue, 2009-06-16 15:22

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Jewish groups in Europe and the United States have reacted with alarm to the gains made by far-right political parties in the recent elections for European Parliament. Right-wing and nationalist parties posted significant victories in Austria, Britain, Denmark, Hungary, Romania and the Netherlands in four days of voting that ended on June 7.

The Paris-based European Jewish Congress (EJC), an umbrella organization for Jewish communities in Europe, said: “As we assess the results of this week’s elections, one disturbing trend has already crystallized; the gains made by extreme-right groups is a Europe-wide phenomenon. The success of the far-right and nationalistic parties that won seats in the elections on the basis of racist, anti-Semitic and xenophobic platforms points to a clear erosion of tolerance and a clarion call to European officials to immediately engage in intercultural dialogue. The success of such rabid groups as The Freedom Party in the Netherlands, the Freedom Party in Austria (FPO), the Danish People’s Party, the British National Party, and Jobbik in Hungary, among others, will sadly only serve to embolden those who espouse the dangerous concepts of extreme nationalism, racism, anti-Semitism and xenophobia.”

The New York-based Anti-Defamation League (ADL) said it was “deeply distressing that the blatantly anti-Semitic parties received so many votes,” and called on European leaders to “ensure that anti-Semitism, racism and bigotry never again gain a foothold in Europe…. It is imperative that European leaders do not remain silent, but speak out and reject the hateful and bigoted worldview of parties of the far-right and their supporters.”

The Geneva-based World Jewish Congress (WJC) said: “Far-right parties and extremists have made gains across Europe amid protest votes and low turnout for the European Parliament (EP) elections. The elections were held in all 27 EU member states from Thursday to Sunday last week. Support for centre-Left parties and governments collapsed across the EU as fringe parties, picked up protest votes.”

Although these and other Jewish groups are not alone in their concerns about rising anti-Semitism in Europe, their fear of the far right often obscures the indisputable fact that some of the greatest threats to Jews (and Israel) in contemporary Europe stem from the left side of the political aisle. Indeed, it is no big secret that all across the European continent, left-wing intellectuals are playing a crucial role in making anti-Semitism seem respectable. Of course, they are (usually) careful to promote their hatred of Jews only indirectly. Instead, modern anti-Semitism is typically disguised as anti-Zionism and an obsession with Palestinian victimhood.

European Judeophobia often takes on new life forms such as anti-Semitic boycott campaigns and anti-Israel demonstrations, the growing intensity of which the European left not only overlooks or obscures but often actively supports. It is transmitted by Europe’s left-leaning mass media, which not only believes that the systematic demonization of Israel promotes the postmodern and postnational ideological worldview of Europe’s governing class, but also appeases the wrath of Europe’s Muslim immigrants, lest they expose the myth of European socialist multicultural utopia.

As the European left intensifies its common cause with the Palestinian movement, Islam itself has emerged as a major threat to Jewish life in Europe. Although definitive statistics are scarce, most of the acts of violence against Jews and Jewish institutions in Europe in recent years seem to be perpetrated by Muslim extremists. Indeed, a 2003 report published by European Monitoring Center on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC) attributed the increase in anti-Semitic violence in Europe mainly to Muslims and pro-Palestinian groups. But those findings were so embarrassing that European left-wing elites quashed the report and commissioned another one. A subsequent EUMC report, which used a more politically correct research methodology, concluded that the “noticeable rise in reported anti-Semitic incidents” was the fault of “young, white Europeans incited by traditional right-wing extremist groups.”

In any case, right-wing groups such as Geert Wilder’s Party for Freedom in the Netherlands and the Danish People’s Party, far from being the purveyors of “rabid” racism and anti-Semitism that the EJC claims, are some of the best allies that Jews (and Israel) will find in Europe today. In fact, the Danish People’s Party is a strong supporter of Israel as well as the US-led War on Terrorism, of which Israel is a major beneficiary. It has called for stronger sanctions against totalitarian regimes and dictatorships, especially those in the Islamic world. It has also supported academic grants for specific research into terrorism and Islamism. For his part, Wilders calls himself a true friend of Israel. During a recent visit to Jerusalem, Wilders said: “We see Christians and Jews as part of one culture. When I’m here I’m with my people, my country, my values. I feel more at home here than in many other European countries. Israel’s a democracy – it’s everything we stand for.”

Wilders and a growing number of other Europeans understand the threat that Islam poses to Europe and to the Western world. They are also taking a stand against an European leftwing political class that despises its Judeo-Christian heritage so much that it has become an undiscerning apologist for Islam. Unfortunately, the Islamization of Europe, which is being promoted by an intolerant leftwing multicultural dogma that gives immigrants more rights than natives, is one of the main factors contributing to the alarming rise of truly troublesome extremist groups like the Hungarian Jobbik party.

The European political right is far more nuanced and complex than catch-all labels such as “far right” or “extreme right” imply. Whereas right-wing groups in Denmark and Holland, animated by common sense, are pushing back against a European multicultural movement that has run amok and has pushed Western Civilization to the edge of the abyss, other groups like those in Austria, Hungary and Romania, animated by ignorance, are promoting hatred against any and all immigrants just for the sake of it. It is a world of difference.

The knee-jerk tendency to stereotype the European right-wing as anti-Semitic obscures the fact that, with few exceptions, the only genuine European supporters of Jews and Israel are on the political right-wing. Indeed, in the bigger scheme of things, Jews have much more to fear from the European left than they do from the European far right.

Soeren Kern is Senior Fellow for Transatlantic Relations at the Madrid-based Grupo de Estudios Estratégicos / Strategic Studies Group

KO

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Thu, 2009-06-18 00:25.

The BNP would certainly have had objections to people  like Bishop Michael remaining in the UK , and if you don't believe me, write to them and ask them. 

European Left is more dangerous for Jews...............

Submitted by Edensfelt on Wed, 2009-06-17 22:23.

I'm all for ethno-Nationalism and I believe all peoples have a right to insist on their own racial exclusivity in their own homelands. Alien races have no automatic rights of access into the homelands of other ethnicities and those whom they've transgressed against and still continue to transgress against, have the inalienable right to remove all aliens by force if need be. Trespassers have no rights, whatsoever.

As for Jews, I'm sick and tired of their whining about past episodes of persecution at the hands of Gentiles while they conveniently skate over their history relating to their treatment at the hands of their Semite Muslim cousins - the Arabs.

Yes and who created Communism? Certainly not just one individual. All the founders of that extremely evil creed (Communism) in all its assorted guises (including the current guise, ie, multiculturalism), were Jews. Nowadays, it appears Jew are being hoisted by their own petard, meaning both the Marxist and Trotskyite movements have apparently turned on them too. One indeed wonders why that might be!!!

Jew must also be made to answer for the part they played in the many episodes down through the ages, in the persecution and slaughter of Gentiles since present generations of Gentiles are being persecuted for transgressions against Jews carried out by some of their forbearers right up to the present day, in which they, the Gentiles, played no part and of which they are not guilty of any involvement in the first place.

Incidently, I'm of maternal part-Jewish descent myself.

Ultranationalists are more dangerous to Conservatives than Jews

Submitted by pale_rider (not verified) on Wed, 2009-06-17 23:07.

In response to Edensfelt and to ultranationalists in general.

1. Nobody argued against the significance of ethnicity here.

2. Most of you ultranationalists make yourselves guilty of the same behavior you claim the Jews are guilty of. I for one am sick and tired of people who have to blame every individual Jewish person (that's what you do when you speak of "the Jews") for what a handful of Jews have done, even when those Jews were, in fact, self-loathing and secular Jews who were not guided by any notion of 'Jewish superiority' vs 'Gentile inferiority', but by Marxist class warfare and historical materialism. And Marx himself was a self-loathing ethnic and atheist Jew whose father had converted to Lutheranism (and you're aware of what Martin Luther wrote about the Jews, right?).

3. How many Arabs and other Gentiles have been massacred by the Jews? Perhaps you have been reading too much White Supremacist propaganda on the Stormfront website or elsewhere. You also ignore the plight of non-Arabs such as the Assyrians and Armenians in the Middle East, who are continuously being harassed if not killed by Arab Muslims and Iranian Muslim theocrats.

4. Jews are part of Western heritage and they are far more entitled to be here than any other people. Many Western nations treated the Jews with decency and tolerance before the advent of ideological nationalism. But according to ultranationalist ethnocentrists, that was apparently not the right thing to do! We should have sent these European Jews back to where they belong. Well, where do they belong? Palestine, maybe. But now that they are there and have a state of their own, the ultranationalists are still not satisfied. I suppose that the Jews should have been sent to Madagascar as per Madagascar Plan. Only inferior Black people live there anyway, right?

5. Ultranationalists and extreme ethnocentrists are not representative of historic Western civlization and neither do they have a claim on Christianity. More often than not I have found these types to be ignorant of basic Christian doctrine and they simply pervert Christianity to make it suit their ultranationalist ideology and to justify their irrational conspiracy theories.

6. Discernment, moderation and civility are qualities that appear absent in ultranationalist circles. I guess that the BNP would throw even a wise and conservative Christian like Michael Nazir-Ali out of Britain. Clearly that Pakistani has no right to be in Britain just because he speaks English, holds British citizenship, and is the bishop of Rochester. Considering his disapproval of racism and his criticism of Islam, he must be a Zionist puppet funded by the Mossad working to destroy Great Britain. At least the Archbishop of Canterbury is a good White christian man!

1. Pale Rider, the likes of

Submitted by Edensfelt on Thu, 2009-06-18 00:57.

1. Pale Rider, the likes of Marx could hardly be described as a self-loathing Jew when the object of his distain and loathing was the Gentile. Had he been a self-loathing Jew, he would have taken the side of Gentiles and defended their self-interests. His father's religious beliefs having nothing to do with the points raised. Again, what Martin Luther wrote about the Jews has nothing to do with the points raised either.

2 Look up Eastern European history and in particular, the Bolshevik era. In present times, look at the Palestinian issue.

Your tendency to introduce arguments that are at odds with the points I raised like, for example, non-Arab victims of Arab Muslims, tells me you are only interested in pushing your own views and if others don't agree with them, you tend to resort to vilification and name-calling. Since I was discussing Jews and not non-Arabs, I proceeded to point out the fact that Jews tend to bang on about what Gentiles did to them, but rarely what their cousins, Arab Muslims did and are still doing to them in some instances.

3. Ethno-Nationalism has nothing to do with inferred hostility towards Jews in the past. Even as far back as the Middle Ages and onwards, the native European elite had cause to take stalk of Jewish nepotism and commercial/financial dealings and their tendency to play off one side against the other in politics. That type of thing! Are you suggesting this was down to Ultra-Ethno-Nationalism too? Incidently, Nationalism is natural and even the Jews are in favour of it for themselves, but swiftly castigate any such tendencies in others. Double standards, I would say.

4. You are very good at jumping to childish conclusions and assuming you know what others are thinking. I cannot speak for other people or organisations so your hysterical references to such and far-fetched remarks about Michael Nazir-Ali and Mossad etc, make you appear to be in danger of losing the plot altogether.

Regarding your point about the Archbishop of Canterbury being a good white Christian, some would argue he is a Marxist plant more like.

I presume you do recall that he said Sharia Law ought to be allowed in Britain and that it was inevitable. Well, with friends like him, God Help Britain and her indigenous peoples.

@ Edensfelt

Submitted by pale_rider (not verified) on Thu, 2009-06-18 01:43.

Did you read my first sentence? It said it was also a response to ultranationalism in general.

1. Marx was an atheist who believed only in his own theories. Why you have to drag the Gentiles in here is beyond me. Are you suggesting that Marx' intention was for Lenin's and the likes to massacre the Gentiles rather than create a Communist utopia on earth? Get real. The Soviets actually claimed to oppose racism and yet they massacred Jews like the Nazis did. Most Communist rulers were not Jewish at all.

2. I'm familiar with the history of the USSR but thanks for the concern. Likewise for the Palestinian issue. Why did I point at the non-Arab victims of the Arabs? Because you were talking of Jews massacering Gentiles. The Arabs, for your information, are Gentiles also, despite the fact that they can be considered 'Semites'. Hence your confusion. Also, I have pointed at this in my reply to Monarchist. The issue is not the Jews. I am not against Turkey's or Morocco's right to exist simply because a lot of Moroccan and Turkish immigrants are hostile toward me? Why would I have to oppose Israel's right to exist because some Jews have responded to me with hostility for being a Christian? I also know that there are good and virtuous Moroccan and Turkish people so it does not make sense to consider Moroccans or Turks as the root of the problem. Islam is. The same applies to the Jews. The Jews are not the problem, it is the liberalism they have embraced just like so many of our fellow 'indigenous' Whites have. Just in case you had forgotten.

3. The Ethno-nationalist views you espouse are extremist and not represenative of Western civilization. I am a conservative. It's one thing to be in favor of national sovereignty and ethnic preservation, it's quite another to say that nobody else has a right to be here and non-Whites should be deported, etc. I have seen others suggest that all immigration should be forbidden, even in New World countries such as Australia or the United States. Apparently they are not aware that immigration can also be part of one's tradition. Immigration in itself is not the problem, but uncontrolled immigration and the associated multicularist liberalism are. Ultranationalists also show little empathy even to Christian refugees from Muslim countries where they are persecuted. Apparently they're all the same to ethno-ultranationalists.

4. I pointed at the BNP because they are a good example of this type of ultranationalist hipocrisy. On the one hand they claim to support Western civilization, British identity or even Christianity (which I find preposterous). But, on the other hand, they consider even law-abiding Christian converts from Islam who are respectable citizens living in Britain to have no right to live in Britain whatsoever. I am quite certain that conservative and Christian statesmen like Edmund Burke would have disagreed with such extremist viewpoints. Conservatism believes in law and order, but also in Christian morality and compassion to one's fellow man. Many Conservatives back in the days opposed the slave trade, for instance.

5. I obviously know about the Archbishop of Canterbury, or did you really think I believe that Nazir-Ali is funded by the Mossad? Ever heard of sarcasm, irony, satire? Again, the whole point is that ultranationalism and extreme ethnocentrism are a betrayal of Western and Christian morals and therefore I will not support it.

This is my last reply on this subject. I do hope to hear from PatriotUSA or Hitech though.

pale rider

Submitted by Edensfelt on Thu, 2009-06-18 18:07.

P.1

Yes, I noted your reference to ultranationalism in general, but as far as I'm concerned, you didn't clarify precisely what you meant by the the expression.

Gentiles are generally accepted to be Christian are they not? As you say, Marx was an atheist and historically it's Jews and Gentiles who have been at odds with each other. I'm sure you see the connection?

Yes, the Marxist intent was precisely that. In other words, to cleanse Europe of her Christian heritage and peoples because Communism could not advance until devout Christians and their belief system(s) were first destroyed.

The Soviets hated Capitalism. Since Jews were traditionally, the embodiment of that System, they destroyed some Jews whom they, the Soviets, thought were plotting against the supposed Marxist Utopian state. That doesn't mean they were hostile to all Jews considering many were actual Marxists and Trotskyites themselves. Lenin was of part-Jewish origin. Stalin, is thought to have been of maternal part-Jewish origin as well.

In my reference to the Bolshevik era, I was referring to the genocide of native European Gentiles, not Arab Gentiles which I believe would be obvious to anyone reading what I wrote. And no, I was not confused about white Europeans and Christian Arabs being both classified as Gentiles since I was not alluding to Arabs in the first place. It was you who brought them into the discussion.

Many misguided people who constantly take the stance in matters concerning non-white individuals and groups that it's their religion and/or political beliefs alone which are the problem, but not the people who practice them. After all, a belief can't physically manifest itself unless it's enacted by its followers.

You must realise it is not possible for countless numbers of distinct races and their associated heritages and cultures to co-exist permanently within the same living space. Human nature does not allow for such utopian fantasies. Humans have evolved to survive and to maximise such efforts, they need separate living spaces and accompanying resources otherwise life and death conflicts will at some point start occurring on a constant basis. When such a situation finally arises, genocide is invariably the end result with the various alien groups targeting the indigenous (or host) inhabitants for obliteration, following which they then commence targeting each other until one eventually attains dominance over the territory and its resources with the unsuccessful competitors relegated to surf status or worse.

National sovereignty and ethnic preservation in a multiracial/multicultural environment, is not realizeable for the aforementioned reasons. Both can only be properly realized if the population is homogeneous. However, that's not to say the people of a homogeneous nation don't also quarrel over issues such as religion and politices - they do, but they don't usually set about attempting to eradicate all the members of their own nation.

Immigration of related genetic kin as in the case of Europe, most especially Northern and Western Europe, cannot be compared with mass influxes of other races not belonging to the same genetic family as indigenous Northern and Western Europeans. The UK was repopulated by Europeans after the last Ice Age 12,000 years ago during which it had previously been uninhabited It was not repopulated by Africans, Semites, Indians and Mongoloids. However, there is nothing wrong with the latter being permitted to study in the homelands of others or being granted temporary employment rights providing their qualifications and expertise is in short supply in the recipient country, but they shouldn't be granted citizenship in large numbers because they will eventually set about attempting to steal the territory for themselves including taking out the host population if not prevented from doing so, the proof of which can be seen operating in stealth mode in both white ancestral homelands and those previously settled in and built by whites, at the present time.

I'm not talking about white-led nations outside Europe and her enclaves since nations such as the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are not white ancestral homelands.

We should understand what is going on.#1

Submitted by Hitech on Thu, 2009-06-18 06:44.

It was very interesting to read all the comments here and I have learned a few things about European politics ( I live in Western Canada). So thanks guys for taking time to post your opinions.
I have written here quite a lot, if you read it – good , if you don’t – I think I ‘ll live .

I agree with many points made here and definitely would argue others .

Of course I would argue mostly with Edensfelt and Monarchist , but is there a point to do that? The question is what are your true motives ? Is your motive here to arrange some real historical facts and some lies in the way that it would totally support your view of the Jews regardless of the reality ?

If you tell me that you are interested in truth then definitely we should debate (as much as our time would allow it ) and see if we can learn , since none of us is totally free of bias and is capable at any moment clearly see what is the real story here.
I definitely interested to know what are the true causes and therefore solutions to that slow deterioration of the Western Values and Traditions that have built the most freest and respectful of individual rights societies (among many other achievements ) .
I do believe one of the main problems (among others) is Multiculturalism , the idiotic notion that all cultures are equal and deserve the equal space and consideration in the public domain.
I am interested to know what you guys think since again , in my opinion, the future of the Western Civilization itself (and there after the future of other democracies including Israel’s ) will be decided in the Western Europe (I give 30-40 years ). Not in USA and not in the Eastern Europe but in the Western Europe.
However , from what I have read from both of you – in my opinion (and I am not saying that I am totally right ) you simply twisting the reality and blaming it simply on the Jews!!!!! What a crap that is!

I guess that is a generalization too . Ok, being more specific.

To take the beginning of this article (with which I totally agree ) where they quote the statements of some Jewish organizations .
The statements are just another example of bullshit that is prevailing today in our countries.
However, my question is why you holding these Jewish organizations to the higher standards than you hold yourselves to ?
Have you heard any representatives of any main political parties in the West or any major organizations stating something like what I would say on the occasion of win by right-wing politicians : the reason for the success of so called the far-right and nationalistic parties is that we, main political organizations, do not represent any longer concerns and true issues of the European population.
The average European sees that his way of life is under threat , that his individual rights (such as the most fundamental and important one as the right to express himself freely) is diminished , that his traditions are disappearing and not of their own accord as the result of progress let say , but being forcefully removed and if he speaks up in the desire to preserve them - he is labeled a racist.
The average European does not have time to think about all what is going on , but he sees that the parallel societies growing all over Europe and we are not making immigrants to be more like us , but our countries , certainly whole areas of them, starting to become more like the backward countries immigrants came from. And , yet , in spite of all of that, the European sees no representation in the policies of our main parties . They are still holding on to us, but for how long? “

Have you heard any body speaking like this as the result of the gains posted by these parties? And if not , why you demanding that the Jewish organizations should be different ? (although I would love them to be ,and they do need to be )

We should understand what is going on.#2

Submitted by Hitech on Thu, 2009-06-18 06:52.

I do agree with Edensfelt only on :” Regarding your point about the Archbishop of Canterbury being a good white Christian, some would argue he is a Marxist plant more like.
I presume you do recall that he said Sharia Law ought to be allowed in Britain and that it was inevitable. Well, with friends like him, God Help Britain and her indigenous peoples”
Monarchist , I dont think I am too hard on you, and I dont think you are in pursuit of true understanding ..as far as property claims by Jewish organizations – I have never thought about it – but on the surface , it is a legal and moral issue ..and it can be and will be handled that way Mostly legally . If you are a person of reason you would understand that. But you simply looking for the ways to support your biases against Jews .
And Edensfelt , when did Jews killed Non-Jews – as Jews ? I mean literally Jews killing Non-Jews for the sake of Jews ? Please enlighten me when and where did it happen? Today Jews killing (and thanks for that, finally we started to do what the rest of mankind been doing non stop) their enemies in the Israeli –Arab conflict , before that the last time Jews killed Non-Jews for the sake of Jews was almost 2000 years in wars against Romans. By the way in the Arab-Israeli conflict in my opinion , Jews are doing a lousy job – the whole conflict took only 100 000 lives over 130 year period and 23 000 of them Jewish, yet 2.5 mln people according to UN are killed every year in conflicts around the world since WWII. Go figure what do people really care about when they scream Jews are Nazis for killing a few , yet somebody hacking hundred of thousands and nobody cares .

And Edensfelt, if you would had read about Marx from such true historians like Paul Johnson and not from some left media’s concoctions – you would know , he hated Jews regardless the fact that by blood was one of them.

I am originally from former USSR ,and since age 10, I have started to suspect that Communism is a lie, by age 14 I hated that ideology. I always was fascinated by the question: why Russian people have never ever ever managed to built a good life for themselves ? a fair society even for the majority of Russians themselves, let alone for all the citizens of that vast country? Why? And I don’t mean only today or yesterday..... overall Russians never had a good life . And especially when considering that they are tough strong people , have a lot smart individuals among them and have achieved many things, besides they are in the possession of the richest country by recourses in the world ? Yet , some countries like Holland or Denmark or Britain , which don’t even come close in riches , always one way or the other, have lived well? There are many reasons , but one is definitely there –and I saw it once I came to Canada – Most Russians prefer to tell themselves pleasing tales and lies rather than understand the truth and stick by it , in Canada and probably in some other Western Societies it is other way around. And as Russian reality demonstrates – this inability to see the truth and stand by it regardless – carries heavy consequences for the very people who indulge themselves in tales .
So the truth, the reality - are not simply beautiful words, don’t you think ?
So Pale Rider - in my opinion , you are right in your statements . Possibly I could argue some of your suggestions , but only on the surface , in depth ,especially your posting “@ Edensfelt” – you are absolutely correct (again in my opinion)..If people like you would be a clear majority in the West, we would not have to be concern about the Western World.
Having said that , I know that free people will always win regardless of what crap they will get themselves into , the only question is , what price we or our children will have to pay as result of us being lazy , complacent , unable to differentiate between the reality and fantasy and being often simply cowardly.

@hitech

Submitted by Monarchist on Thu, 2009-06-18 19:15.

Monarchist , I dont think I am too hard on you, and I dont think you are in pursuit of true understanding ..as far as property claims by Jewish organizations – I have never thought about it – but on the surface , it is a legal and moral issue ..and it can be and will be handled that way Mostly legally . If you are a person of reason you would understand that. But you simply looking for the ways to support your biases against Jews .

I precisely pointed what kind of Jews I cannot stand, I did not generalize. This is interesting that different kind of Jews have a lot worth in shaping and developing two contradictory way of thinking. On the one side of barricade we have libertarians who have perfect understanding of private property. On the opposite side there are collectivist communist whom always had a problem with private property. There is also strong collectivist sister ideology among the Jews (of course this is not exclusively Jewish thing, although this seems to be crucial element of Jewish culture ) called tribalism which provide very twisted understanding of private property.

The fragment of your post that I quoted qualify you to this collectivist sub-group of tribalists. What legal and moral claims World Jewish Congress could have regarding Eastern Europe? I never heard about them demanding to return their (World Jewish Congress) property. What they want is property of all Jews that lived here before WWII. As far as I understand and support property rights of individuals who can provide evidence no matter of what ethnicity or religion, I condemn all those who want to put their hands on somebody else property. World Jewish Congress as a tribalist minded institution is deeply convinced that they have right to demand property once owned by individual Jews. This is very twisted understanding of private property, alien to people of western civilization.

I mean literally Jews killing Non-Jews for the sake of Jews ?

Sorry but this is again some kind of meddling on your side. There was once significant part of Jewish people who identified their interest with supporting leftism and multiculturalism. They were involved in communist crimes and at least in their own eyes they were killing for the sake of Jews. Like every other ethic group also the Jews had their evil people, this is so hard to admit it?

What I want to notice is your attitude toward your former countrymen, the Russians. Perhaps Russia is far from being decent state still you seems to fit to stereotypical imagine of Eastern European Jew. Once he leave, he immediately start to badmouth his former state and countrymen. Later this is hard to expect that people in such Russia will sympathize with Israel.

@Monarchist #1

Submitted by Hitech on Fri, 2009-06-19 06:36.

I dont see my first part I have written here. Is there some limitation on the numbers of postings one might do?
well, here is the first part.
You stated :
"What I want to notice is your attitude toward your former countrymen, the Russians. Perhaps Russia is far from being decent state still you seems to fit to stereotypical imagine of Eastern European Jew.
Once he leave, he immediately start to badmouth his former state and countrymen. Later this is hard to expect that people in such Russia will sympathize with Israel."
Where did I badmouth in my postings Russians ? The positing is right there below, so where are there the disparaging remarks about the Russians ? By stating that they are tough and strong people ? That they have a lot of smart people among them ? Or that they at the end of all, never have lived well? I would say my statement was more sympathetic than anything else, don’t you think?
Monarchist , it definitely appears that you just have proved my earlier assertion – that you are not interested in truth, you interested in twisting the reality to fit your bias views of
Jews. You can believe anything you want but when you see something which is not there , I am sorry , but it puts in doubt your reliability as a source of truthful information.

Further you wrote :

“There was once significant part of Jewish people who identified their interest with supporting leftism and multiculturalism. They were involved in communist crimes and at least in their own eyes they were killing for the sake of Jews. Like every other ethic group also the Jews had their evil people, this is so hard to admit it?”

In this statement in my opinion, you are posting some real facts and then make conclusions which are simply not true.
It is not easy to answer to the above in two lines , and most importantly KO in his posting @ PR and Edensfelt is totally correct by saying that we are focusing way too much on ethnicity and I would add definitely too much on Jews and he is correct about the real threat.
But this issue of Jews and Communists need to be answered since it is twisted by so many.
I will post for those readers who are interested to know . How close to the truth I am in my comments ? You decide.

@Monarchist #2

Submitted by Hitech on Fri, 2009-06-19 05:28.

The communist society of USSR, was hardly a supporter of the multiculturalism (as you suggesting ) – only Russian Culture was fully supported by the state , the rest were allowed – but not really encouraged and viewed with suspicion, and the Jewish culture was practically non-existent and anything Jewish was considered being an imperialistic influence and a threat to Soviet Union.
Jews involved in Communist crimes? In USSR we did not know that Jews ever served in the security apparatus of the state, since in 60s and 70s basically there were no Jews in KGB or military, you could not get into them if you were a Jew, definitely we (Soviet people ) did not know that Jews widely participated in the revolution. Our teachers in Universities did not know that Karl Marx was a Jew , but each of us was told in the first grade at age 6-7 that a “Jewish bitch – Dora Kaplan – shot and almost killed our dear beloved Grandpa Lenin.”.

Basically in USSR it was exactly the same description of Jews as you give , only in reverse. Here you describe us as enemies of the Western Society , there- we were described (officially - carefully as individuals and Judaism and so called collective Jewishness was described officially ) as enemies of the Communist Soviet Society and actually agents and promoters of the very Western Society you accuse us being the enemy of here ))))
In those days , Soviets would laugh if you would describe Jews to them as pro-Communist , pro-left or actually communistic , playing major role in the Bolshevik revolution , or God forbid that Lenin was a Jew!!!!! Or Stalin!!!!!
(If you would even suggest something like that – people would think that you are a lunatic that have escaped from a hospital or most likely be so enraged at such suggestion that would put you in the hospital themselves with broken legs and arms added....and that would be if you lucky ) – in USSR we were under suspicion, we were the agents of Imperialistic West, we were looking supposedly to undermine the collective order of the Socialist State with our capitalistic ideas and ways , we were Zionist elements seeking to destroy the beloved Communist party and Israel and Israelis was vilified in Soviet press the same way as it is vilified in the Muslim press. We were perfect “Others” – who, it appears like , some people must always have.
So any way we turn – we are guilty )))))
And I am not looking here for the sympathy, I am laughing !
The most ludicrous thing I have read here is stated by Edensfield – that Stalin was Jewish!!! Yeah, right. My grandmother was beaten by a mob when it was announced that Stalin died , since , according to them “Kikes murdered Comrade Stalin!”..and he was a Jew after all!!)))

@Monarchist #4

Submitted by Hitech on Fri, 2009-06-19 06:29.

You saying that we Jews are incapable of admitting the crimes committed by our fellow Jews ? You are wrong again. We are around for 4000 years my bias interlocker , if we would be consistently lying to ourselves (although , since we are like everybody else, I don’t exclude that sometimes we might ,I would say more like delude ourselves from the ugly reality) , we would have ceased to exist a long long time ago as others who came with us and are only history today. And considering that there is always somebody who wants to exterminate us and is way more numerous than us , it is a miracle at all that we are around today. I even start to believe in God when I think about it)) In any case, there are many Jewish historians which have written about Communism and the role Jews have played in it.
Couple years ago I have read an excellent article in an Israeli publication “Ynet” -– it said that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish .

I have spent time today looking for it, since I could not remember the name of it, and I have found it. Google “Stalin's Jews” it will come up with “Stalin's Jews - Israel Opinion, Ynetnews” . Besides stating some facts, as ugly as they are, the article correctly laments that Israeli youth does not know the role and the names of the fellow Jews who have participated in the crimes of Stalin regime. Read it, you will most likely have moments :"you see, I told you so" but the fact is that it is published by Israeli press (conservative ) , and is based on researches by the Jewish historians . There alot of comments , some are unhappy about the article , well , those Jews (like anybody else) are entitled to their opinion. Yet many were supportive as I am.
I will comment later on some other points of your posting.

@Monarchist #3

Submitted by Hitech on Fri, 2009-06-19 06:28.

It is amazing , that today , when it is clear that communism is evil, the same people in Russia who have called us anti-Communistic , blame us for the Communist revolution. Talking about seeking the truth! Only when it is convenient - well, if you want to build a descent society , then a convenient truth will not do it

The whole thing reminds me of a satirical song written by a Soviet Jew :”Jews , Jews , around only Jews” , it makes fun of the people’s consistent preoccupation with Jews and blaming them for everything , regardless how ridiculously stupid and impossible it is. So here couple words from that song :

“If there is no water in a tap –Jews have drunken it , if there is water in the tap – Jews pissed into it ....Jews Jews Jews – around only Jews.”.

Myself personally I have encountered this one : as a Soviet pupils , we did not believe in God or that Jesus Christ has existed , but we “knew” that Jews have killed him.

On the issue of Communistic revolution and Jews. When I came to the West, I had finally the opportunity to read real historical books , and I do see that many Jews widely participated in the Bolshevik party and the revolution of 1917(in USSR we knew that Jews had widely participated in the parties opposing Bolsheviks – such as Menshiviks ) . There is an explanation to that fact and one might call it a defence.
Those Jews were idealists , and thought , like many Non-Jews who took participation in the Revolution – that they were destroying rotten regime, and are building the bright future for mankind, definitely for Russia , classless future , no rich no poor , everybody will be equal and happy ..And Pain Rider is right , those Jews were looking to escape their Jewishness by becoming Communists. All of them were executed by Stalin in 1930s.
However , when they were alive , the first part of their business of those Communistic Jews was to exterminate Zionist Jews and BUND. The BUND was the largest party in Russia by membership, it had 300 000 members , which was way larger number than Bolsheviks had, and BUND was the Jewish party specifically designated to defence of Jewish interests. Both, Zionists and Bundists (Bund was not totally Zionistic) were destroyed by Communists.
After that Jewish Communists , and here I agree with you Monarchist , together with way more numerous Non-Jewish Communists , participated in the perpetration of the whole array of crimes on the most horrible scale that ever was perpetrated in the human history.
But you are very wrong to state that they did that for Jews – that is a lie.
Hundred thousands of the Jewish Soviet Citizens perhaps a million or so , together with millions upon millions of Non-Jewish Soviets were executed or worked to death by Communist regime of Stalin.
There is a Jewish joke :” when did we Jews were totally equal to Russians in Russia? In 1937 – both were killed without preference”
As the Moscow Rabbi in 20s before his execution told his interrogator :” Trotzkies make revolution and Bronsteins (Bronstein was the real Trotzky’s name ) end up paying for it”

On the subject of Stalin

Submitted by Edensfelt on Fri, 2009-06-19 15:00.

"Hundred thousands of the Jewish Soviet Citizens perhaps a million or so, together with millions upon millions of Non-Jewish Soviets were executed or worked to death by Communist regime of Stalin."

Apparently, Stalin started out very pro-Jewish. In fact, in 1926, he is said to have inacted a law prohibiting anti-Semitism in any form even perfectly legitimate criticism with regards to the doctrines and practices of Judaism, under pain of the death penalty.

It is speculated that he then turned against the Jews when they commenced directing their aims and aspirations towards the West directly after WW11. America, was the main focus of their attentions due to her victorious emergence from WW11 and her Capitalist system as opposed to a Communist one.

Apparently, Stalin saw this development as outright betrayal and feared a new era of counter-espionage and its consequental effects on Russia's national security and economic interests.

It goes without saying that even if this was truly the case, there is never any justification for committing genocide.

about Ukrainian Genocide

Submitted by Hitech on Fri, 2009-06-19 18:05.

I of course totally agree with you on
It goes without saying that even if this was truly the case, there is never any justification for committing genocide
but in Soviet Union , all nationalities were slaughtered. It was a polical killing. And killers were from all nationalities as well.
So I am not sure you can say it was a true genocide of one or the other enthnic group.
But , my personal view is that Stalin really had it for Ukrainians..I think , in the case of murder of 10 mln Ukrainians by starvation, we can say it was genoside. I suspect that Stalin really wanted at least to reduce specifically Ukrainian genetic pool.
And we , Soviet people in 60s and 70s , at least most of us knew nothing about that slaughter . I have learned about it only in the West , and was not suprised at all.
Can you imagine what a system the Soviet Union had that the people knew nothing of the murder of 5% of their population. One almost can admire inadvertantly at the high level of organizational evil.

"but in Soviet Union , all

Submitted by Edensfelt on Fri, 2009-06-19 22:28.

"but in Soviet Union , all nationalities were slaughtered. It was a polical killing. And killers were from all nationalities as well."

This has already been established historically, of course.

If you re read my post, you will see that I was specifically alluding to a theory put forward that Stalin turned on the Jews for the reasons I read about after apparently starting out as strongly pro-Jewish.

I wasn't generalising about Communism and its human rights abuses in the universal context in that particular instance.

While on the subject of human rights abuses wrought by Communism at the start of its takeover of Eastern Europe in 1914, this ideology is suspected of being responsible for the collective genocide of at least 42 million native Europeans.

A numerical definition of genocide has not yet been established in the world of academia as far as I know. Feel free to correct my assumption if this is not the case. If the former is the case that would mean the definition is open to general interpretation as regards numbers.

@Edensfelt, Conservatism vs Ulta-Nationalist #2

Submitted by Hitech on Fri, 2009-06-19 17:09.

Edensfelt your Ultra-Nationalism can not save Europe. First of all and foremost at the very basic level - Ultra-Nationalism is anti-Christian, since if you are a true Christian, you would stand against any totalitarian regime , be that Commies or Nazis. The first commandment in Judeo (yes, Judeo)-Christian Bible states"I am the Lord your God You shall have no other gods before me You shall not make for yourself an idol " . All totalitarian regimes have to create cults out their leaders (Hitler, Stalin , Mao ) that basically do replace God , otherwise totalitarianism can not hold on to power over their populations.

Your statement :
"Let me explain: Ideologies are a product of cultural beliefs and traditions which, in turn, are products of ethnicity or ethnicities. Therefore, ideologies ultimately stem from ethnicity."

- I totally disagree with that . I know you don't care , it is your right , but you are in the dream world. The society you want - is impossible , and do you mean that a person born let say English or Pakistani, or Muslim or a Jew, is predetermined already just by the fact of his birth? A person can learn , accept and believe any ideology, and in my books, if he respects the Western Values , respects the traditions of a country he is in, keeps his religion spiritual as a true religion is , then I have no problem with him - regardless of who he is. Of course , you will say that I am a problem then -well, and I say - you are a passe (in the past ) with your ideology. Since the world already went through that experiment - and we all know what it turnout to be. And I am sure a true conservatism, is not ultra-nationalist (fascism - I like it to call a spade a spade).

But I don't think Europe will adopt yet Conservatism , and it will pay heavily for it in 20-30 , definitely in 40 years .

As far as Stalin - I really don't know who he was, and what his ancestry was, but it is so funny to suggest that he had Jewish blood, it is SO incompatible . But at the end of the day it is irrelevant ,but his ideology is not. I know you will disagree .

Hitech

Submitted by Edensfelt on Sat, 2009-06-20 00:07.

Hitech, the gist of your argument assumes that Christianity is the final arbitrator on the welfare and preservation of the native Europeans and their civilisation without considering that Christianity may have inadvertently played a part in the present predicament Europe finds herself in today with its command for the faithful to open house and home to strangers, be they friend or foe, the intent being to convert them by kindness and tolerance. (By the expression 'house and home', I refer to one's territorial borders.)

Following that, satanic ideologies like Communism seized on such messages and then manipulated them to its own ends. Before long, they castigated traditional Christianity from a height and perverted its gospel messages to mean tolerance of just about every evil known to man.

The upshot of all this is that Christian institutions started to be systematically infiltrated by Communists posing as clerics and Christian scholars. The rest is history, as they say.

Ideologies don't take shape out of thin air. Ideologies are the products of ethnicities and their cultures. That is not a fallacy, it is a fact. It's you who resides in a dream world if you believe otherwise. Of course, one can adopt other faith/culture. But the fact remains, the faith/culture one adopts was created by another race and culture. I, as a white European, for example, could adopt the Hindu religion and culture, but that would not change the fact that the religion and culture belonged to another peoples and I had simply adopted it.

Ethno-Nationalism was what prevented Northern/Western and a significant section of Eastern Europe from being conquered and subjugated by outsiders for several centuries before the invention of Communism. Yes, Christianity acted as a bastion at least from the Middle Ages up to the first half of the 20th century or so, but ultimately it was the will, fortitude and resolve of native peoples who were prepared to give up their lives rather that submit to alien conquest.

Incidently, let's be clear about what Ultra-Nationalism is and Ethno-Nationalism is not.

Ultra-nationalism is extreme nationalism in which the sensitivities and needs of other nations are disregarded.

Ethno-Nationalism doesn't fall into that category.

Ethno-Nationalism is about the racial and cultural survival of all indigenous peoples and their nations no matter what country in the world they belong to.

Conservative values of yesteryear evaporated decades ago. Today's brand of Conservatism is globalist and totally monetary in outlook, possessing no modicums of moral fibre, loyality and respect for those it proports to serve. If you would rather follow it blindly knowing the old value system is long since dead then be my guest, but count me out.

"As far as Stalin - I really don't know who he was, and what his ancestry was, but it is so funny to suggest that he had Jewish blood, it is SO incompatible."

Why is it so funny? After all, Jews don't all sing from the same hymn sheet either when it comes to politics.

I agree that his ideology (Communism) is most certainly not to be recommended.

@Edensfelt , Conservatism vs Ultra-Nationalism #1

Submitted by Hitech on Fri, 2009-06-19 17:06.

Edensfelt ,I referred ONLY to your comment about Stalin , why are you adding something I did not say? Where did I state as you put it "that mass invasion of white Western nations by non-white Third World races replete with their alien cultures, has major implications for white indigenous peoples, is bullshit" . I would never call that "bullshit" . Although I disagree with your's race preoccupation , I absolutely believe that the Western Nations (European especially) as the cradle of the greatest mankind's social achievement that is the Western Liberal (not left wing ) Democracy is under threat from an incompatible aggressive totalitarian ideology such as Islam is (at its core -Islam is not a religion, it is not spiritual ,it is political, just look at the tenants of Islam - they all are physical acts to keep the cohesion of Islam as an army, and if you try to abandon it , you are sentenced to death , as in any army deserters are)))) ).. And the very existence of this threat indicates that a Western society never really can abandon the basic values that have created her in the first place .

And since PainRider is a better speaker and writer than me , and his manifesto's point #2 exactly answers to your above statement , I am using it as the answer to you, with one small correction from me. I believe that although immigration at first has started as a true immigration and was unconscious of its future potential to take over Europe, but now that many in the Muslim World feel blood (that is , they believe that Europe is weak and they will take one day over it) , the immigration became literally an invasion and only true conservatism (not fascism) can save Europe. The truth is Islam is NOT strong, it is weak for number of reasons . The fist one -Islam can not withstand any scrutiny from the point of view of Universal Human Rights , Christianity by the way - can and is in itself the Universal Human Rights (almost - the only issue are gays rights ). Second , Islam has nothing good to offer to a free Western individual , since it is just another totalitarian ideology (more primitive than Nazism and Communism at that) that is anti-individual , anti-free expression and many other anti-achievements that make the Western World THE place on this Earth. But Islam has one tremendous strength - the Western Concept of the Multiculturalism and the idiotic left Liberalism.

On the other hand, a true Christianity - is truly spiritual (it could not have been otherwise , I will brag here- it was brought to the World by Jews) and true conservatism is (and as an atheist Jewish person I say this) a preservation of national traditions , and definitely preservations of Christian traditions. All newcomers (if they allowed in) should be clearly told where they came to - this is England let say and not Pakistan, more that that - this a Western Country with Western Humanistic Values .

Europeans themselves need to be told by Conservatives that they can not have it both ways. It simply does not work that way in Nature. You can not have great long vacations, great retirement packages , have no children and then complain about immigrants. You can not be spineless, complacent and then complain about foreign values that effect your very freedom and your traditions as Englishmen German etc - taking over yours.

We should understand what is going on.#2

Submitted by Edensfelt on Thu, 2009-06-18 17:32.

Hitech, Marx's alleged antisemitism was not thought to be based on race hate, but on his perception of Judaism as a stumbling block to Marxism, a secular and atheist creed.

Political Scientist, Professor Iain Hemphsher-Monk, David McLellan and Francis Wheen are not convinced that Marx was antisemitic in the racial sense either. Nor is Jonathan Sacks, Chief Rabbi.

Re +Michael and ++Rowan

Submitted by KO on Thu, 2009-06-18 00:08.

PR: The BNP probably would have had little objection to Bishop Michael, as a rare defender of the West in the near-universally dhimmified, appeasement-and-perversity-oriented Anglican hierarchy, had he not suddenly and grossly exceeded his spiritual jurisdiction and publicly advocated that British voters reject the BNP. Until then, I would have had to agree with Atlanticist's answer to his recurring question, whom do you prefer--the loyal alien or the treacherous native--and gladly would have voted to throw the bearded equivocator out of the lifeboat rather than his Pakistani suffragan. However, after both prelates erupted against the one British party that has credibility in the fight against mass Third World immigration and the EUSSR dictatorship, I think both crozier-bearers should be encouraged to vacate the premises with all haste, preferably by hide coracle.

Jews and nationalists

Submitted by pale_rider (not verified) on Wed, 2009-06-17 20:51.

@ Dave: the topic is not about Israel or its right to exist. My comment to PatriotUSA also was not talking about that. Let's try and keep this out of the discussion for once.

@ Monarchist: Let me just begin by saying that I do understand your position. I like many Central and Eastern European myself and I also think that hitech was being rather harsh on that part of Europe. Furthermore, I also disagree with racism toward Arabs or with any disregard of Christians in the Middle East. That does not only include Arab Christians but also Assyrians and Jewish converts in Israel. Even so, this is not an argument against Israel's right to exist. I fully support Iran's right to exist despite the fact that they oppress Christian minorities and hang Muslim converts to Christianity. The State of Israel itself does not commit such crimes. The Palestinians do, however, frequently murder Christians among them or those that convert from Islam.

The problem with many nationalists is that they have never really given up on their bias toward the Jews to begin with, and they apply double standards on the Jews. On the one hand, they are right in saying that many Jews militantly advocate left-wing ideology. But the origin of this liberalism is not with the Jews, it is a result of the fact that mankind as a whole is corrupt and fallible - regardless of whether one is Jew or Gentile. That is why a conservative believes in tradition as a guide rather than mere man-made ideas or reason. And don't the Muslims militantly and even violently advocate multiculturalism for the sake of imposing their religion on the West as well?

As I have said elsewhere, I have encountered many nationalists and they were virtually all downright opposed to Israel's existence based on the same old irrational arguments used by the Far Left. Like the Muslims, they see a Zionist and Jewish conspiracy with an oligarchy of Jews running the show in the West. Never mind that it is native non-Semites and atheist Jewish Westerners who are responsible for Western decadence.

The problem is of course further complicated by the fact that some "Christians" claim that there is no future for the Jews, that God has rejected all of them outright, leading them to conclude that Jews are to be opposed and can never be trusted. THen they go on to identify them with Marxism and Communism even though most of these Jews (e.g. Trotsky) were self-loathing Jews who hated the very fact that they were Jewish and later butchered Jews just like the Nazis did. Ultranationalists are ideologists that should give up on their double standards and learn to understand things by putting them in their historical context instead of their preconceived ideas about the Jews being somehow more evil than their own races.

And as I've said repeatedly, the Jews are a people like any other, and people consist of different individuals. Let's remain civilized and refrain from resorting to slanderous remarks. We must refute our opponents with facts and not in a hateful fashion.

Best regards.

Jews and Gentiles

Submitted by pale_rider (not verified) on Wed, 2009-06-17 16:00.

I'm truly grateful to see that we have Jewish members on this website who are with the Western conservative "Gentiles". I hope it will persuade the skeptics and haters that the Jews as a whole are not our enemy. Liberalism is our adversary because it seeks to destroy tradition and rejects natural order; therefore its notions of liberty and equality are perverted. The survival of true liberty is dependent on morality.

Conservatives should not be afraid to admit that the West has not always treated the Jews fairly. There is nothing traitorous about that. The willingness to admit one's faults is a sign of maturity! What I do strongly object to is the way many Jews, regardless of whether they're liberal or religious, tend to depict Christianity and gentile Westerners.

For instance, some like to promote the idea that Islam treated them better (e.g. during the Muslim occupation of Iberia), entirely ignoring the fact that the Netherlands, England and Hungary are just a few examples of Western countries that have been tolerant toward the Jews through much of their history. They also ignore the fact that many Roman Catholics (including clergy) and Protestants alike actually helped protect Jews that were persecuted by the pagan Nazi ideology. That includes Polish, Danish, German, Czech, Dutch, French and so many other people. Obviously it does not help the Jews to keep presenting such a biased picture of Western civilization. Having said that, Conservatives should not respond with hatred but refute them with facts and sound reasoning, and by living morally upright lives.

@ PatriotUSA: I once saw a documentary about an American living in Texas who was a liberal Jew and converted to Christianity at some point in his life. He now lives alienated from his family. Unfortunately some Christians were also hostile to him because of his Jewish roots. The man seems to live quite alone and has devoted his life to ministering to others.

Most Jews have hardened hearts. I think that is why so many are often so very hostile to Christians, and most Israelis to this day are either very secular or religious and strongly against Christianity. I think that is also why most Jews cannot seem to be able to look at things from a Gentile's perspective for once. I wish more of them had the courage to do that. After all, I can perfectly understand why many Jews are skeptical or even hostile to Christianity, even though it is still misguided from my point of view.

In any case, God has not rejected all Jews and you are the living proof that what Paul wrote in Romans 11 is entirely correct; consider yourself blessed for being among the elect. Even if you have to go through hardship and face ridicule by your family, this is only temporary; the reward will be great.

Best regards to both of you.

Pale Rider

@pale rider

Submitted by Monarchist on Wed, 2009-06-17 20:23.

You made few good observations, however you should just look at hitech comment about Eastern Europe. There is plenty of bigoted Jews totally biased against nations of central and eastern Europe. This is enough to visit some Jewish forum and read their comments. International Jewish organizations and some native post-communist Jews in the region use every opportunity to accuse somebody about anti-Semitism. They demand huge money from out states and claim to represent all Jews who lived here before WWII. Those scamsters have a lot of support from US Congress. In such circumstances this is not only nationalist crowds but also average Poles, Hungarians or Russians have absolutely no desire to back Israel. Most of nationalists even tend to sympathize with Palestinians. They think that the Jews talk c*** about Palis as they do about Poles, Hungarianx, Russians, etc. However what could the Jews expect if this bigoted part of their society completely monopolised international relations with our region?

I guess if they would need our help so much, then they would be able also to rethink their attitude. They could start with World Jewish Congress official declaration when they would apologize nations of our region for many years of defamation and negative propaganda. This could be new opener and I'm sure with time people here would be even willing to back them against Muslims. If they would finally start to treat Arab Christians like human beings, I think this would be seen positively here as well.

to Pale Rider and PatriotUSA

Submitted by Hitech on Wed, 2009-06-17 17:22.

PatriotUSA and Pale Rider , interesting points ..I would like to bounce of you couple thoughts - to see your opinion. No time right now, but will do that later. So visit this blog again ))

A view from the right

Submitted by PatriotUSA on Wed, 2009-06-17 08:21.

I think Pale Rider is pretty close to what the reality is. Whether in Europe or The USA, the left is far more dangerous to Jews than the right. I know this just my own personal experiences. Being a Jew, one who has embraced Christianity and being extremely conservative,I have been attacked, threatened, villified, called a traitor only by those from the left, some of them FORMER friends. I have lived in the shadows of the Jewish American left and it has not been pleasant or had ANY redeeming value for me. It has actually pushed me farther to the right as I want nothing to do with these people. They are moronic, self hating baffoons at best. They willing tossed their hats in the ring and ate up the lies and deceit from the mullah obamaham, voted for him at a near 80% clip. Talk about self defeating! They refused to see the truth about this man nor have they learned from history. There will always be those in far right parties and groups that hate Jews of any stripe or ideology. I do not see that reflected from the elections that were just held across Europe.

One can put the left from the USA and Europe in the same can and toss into the deepest part of the ocean. I only have to look at damages done and accepted for the most part by the leftarded Jews in my own country. Their embracing of diversity and multiculturalism at all costs does nothing to help their cause or their image.

SJ's article is a good one and it will not be for everyone. Many American Jews thought Carter was a great president, just like they do Obama.
That tells me alot about where they have been and where they want to go. I do not plan go down that road with them.

 

Left wing Jews ?

Submitted by Hitech on Wed, 2009-06-17 04:49.

do you want to tell me that we Jews not allowed to have idiots  ? Everybody else does )..

the Jewish attitude and the Western conservative

Submitted by pale_rider (not verified) on Wed, 2009-06-17 01:18.

The problem with the Jews is that they are brainwashed by Liberal multi-cultural thinking that has manipulated the Holocaust, the culmination of Anti-Semitism in Europe, to further their sinister cause. The Jews basically make an enemy out of themselves this way. Obviously all those liberal American Jews that promote moral debauchery don't exactly help to improve their image either. Those folks have only themselves to blame. However, it should be clear that not all Jews are Leftists! The Jews are a people like any other, and they're not necessarily more liberal than our own people - they're just more vocal about it because of their history and their minority status. I know that there are religious Jews who vote for the VB in Flanders. Also, if you check the Jerusalem Post, they have been publishing a lot about Geert Wilders. I'm quite certain that his support for Israel is helping Israelis realize that not all that are considered on the "Far Right" are necessarily anti-Semitic or anti-Zionist. Whether it helps to convince their Jewish brethren in the West is another matter though. However, I agree that on the whole, many Jewish organizations (even ones that lean toward the Right) are hostile to Right-wing traditionalists. Part of the problem is the persistent anti-Jewish sentiment among many European nationalists. And on the other hand, the disinformation that the left-wing media spread about any Right-wing nationalist, radical conservatives, or reactionary parties. Then again, many Jews seem to be utterly unable or unwilling to put themselves in the shoes of conservative Westerners. It's a complex and very unfortunate situation, but I think that conservatives who stand for Western civilization should not allow the hostility of many Jews to make our own image even worse. We must not bow to these liberal Jews. However, we must also not resort to hate and indecency. That's how I look at this issue. Let's stick by the facts and persuade them by always seeking to keep the moral high ground in the face of Leftist evil and lies.

TBJ and the Jews

Submitted by Monarchist on Tue, 2009-06-16 20:27.

Surely nationalists from Eastern and Central Europe wont be licking Jewish asses any time soon. Personally I reject nationalism in general but also completely  disagree with TBJ line. Unconditional support for Jewish nationalists is out of question! Above mentioned Jewish organizations are openly hostile towards people in our region, they worked for this bad image that they have very long. 

to Monarchist

Submitted by Hitech on Wed, 2009-06-17 04:40.

monarhist what is this bullshit : " Surely nationalists from Eastern and Central Europe wont be licking Jewish asses any time soon" ???? There is a huge difference in the nationalistic movements from Eastern Europe versus Western Europe. The movements from Eastern Europe in the most cases are primitive movements of biggots that are playing an old blame game , same beaten down crap that bias populace of those contries happily eats. The Western European movements are definetly different , and rightly calling their nations to deal with the real issues and real concerns..not imaginitive Jewish conspiracies ..as a Jew I would vote for BNP in England - and I dont givah shit that some of BNP members are Nazis...England needs to have more right wing politics and so do other Western European nations.

Monarchist , you might said something that pleases you, but it does not reflect any reality..Pale rider makes sense.