Thank God for the Danish Cartoons

From the desk of Koenraad Elst on Thu, 2006-02-02 12:33

On 31 January 2006 the British House of Commons narrowly defeated – with just 283 votes against 282 – New Labour’s Racial and Religious Hatred Bill, intended to prohibit speech or artistic expressions deemed insulting by religious communities. This was a narrow yet historic victory for freedom of expression, as well as a victory for Parliament against a despotic-minded Government. Liberal-Democratic spokesman Evan Harris commented: “The Government just failed to understand that they can’t take liberties with freedom of expression.”

On the occasion of the House of Commons vote, familiar maxims on liberty were aptly invoked in various debates, e.g. against the British Government’s plea that the bill was “necessary” to make multicultural coexistence possible (an argument invoked by governments across Europe to impose similar censorship laws). William Pitt the Younger was quoted:

“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom; it is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”

Regarding the argument that this curtailment of freedom of speech is only a small concession to an acute societal need, Edmund Burke’s words were repeated:

“The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away for expedience and by parts.”

Against the argument that many things people say about other religions are ill-informed or prejudiced, Mahatma Gandhi was quoted:

“Freedom isn’t worth having if it does not connote the freedom to err.”

Undoubtedly the British parliamentary vote boosted the morale of the Danish government and media. The Danes need all the support they can get now that they are being terrorized by Muslim fanatics but also attacked, openly or indirectly, by an international establishment that speaks a.o. through Bill Clinton, the Council of Europe and various EU bureaucrats. The Danes’ freedom of expression is decried as “Islamophobia”, a notion which was introduced by Tariq Ramadan and is now being promoted and inserted into international policy by people such as Karel De Gucht, Belgium’s Foreign Affairs Minister and the current Chairman of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE).

So far the Danish Government and Jyllands-Posten have, while making some conciliatory gestures, stood firm against pressure. Other courageous European newspapers have expressed their support by republishing the controversial cartoons in their own pages.

What seems to cause people most offence are, however, not errors, but hearing things that are undeniably right on the mark. Depicting Mohammed with a bomb in his turban, as in one of the controversial cartoons, hurts because the perpetrators of the most recent acts of Islamic terror, from 9/11 suicide hijacker Mohammed Atta to Mohammed Bouyeri (Theo van Gogh’s assassin), have explicitly affirmed that they were motivated by their zeal for Islam and by the teaching and precedent of the Prophet. Mohammed in fact organized armed raids on caravans, took hostages for ransom, permitted his men to rape the hostages, and ordered the assassination of poets who mocked or criticized him.

Does a scholarly paper documenting the link between Mohammed and terrorism, or a cartoon making the same point, hurt the feelings of all the truly peace-loving, ordinary Muslims? Certainly, but this is where George Orwell’s observation applies:

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

Millions of Muslims have constructed for themselves a version of Islam that reconciles a veneration for the Prophet and the Quran with an acceptance of more enlightened values of pluralism and tolerance. To them it may come as a shock to see that not everyone shares their views. But that kind of shock therapy is a healthy thing. Those Danish cartoonists may be among the greatest benefactors the Muslims ever had.

To codyomega

Submitted by miracatt on Wed, 2006-02-15 17:08.

(a woman is deprived of an equal share of inheritance solely because she is female)
Yes this is absolutely true and what about it?
God said that the husband is totally responsible on all his wife s expenses and that is why she gets half the inheritance, she has her husband to support her and if she is not married her male family menbers will totally support her. I am a female Muslim i live in Egypt and i dont see any problem with this.
(Another disturbing aspect of traditional Muslim treatment of women is the phenomenon known as “honour killing.” This behaviour, which has absolutely nothing “honourable” about it, involves the murder of women by their male relatives for some perceived slight against the honour of the family unit. Primarily these slights are sexual in nature, ranging from something as serious as fornication to something as relatively innocuous as flirting with a man outside the family. A wife requesting a divorce is cited as another common motivation for honour killings, and they often occur simply because a girl refused to marry a partner chosen by pre-arrangement. There have even been instances where Muslim women have been killed because they had been raped, a crime which Islamic law often considers to be the fault of the woman, not the rapist)
What you call honour killings is not related to Islam at all these are horrible traditions in south Egypt and condemned by all Muslim though definitly our religion teaches us that no man or woman should have a sexual relation outside the marriage bond and the punishement for your knowledge is equal for both of them what we call (Zena). Regarding the subject of divorce i totally disagree, a divorced woman have all the support from everyone there is no problem about this in our religion nor in the community, we even (Muslim females) have the right to divorce ourselves what is called (Khole). The rapist in our religion and in our law is condemned to death the female has all the suuport and sympathy though thanks God this is not common here.
(women in many Muslim countries are not free to even leave the house without their husbands' permission, much less transact business and manage property of their own accord. Because of the debilitating strictures placed upon a woman’s freedom of movement and communication with others (especially men) outside of her kinship unit)
And what is the problem in taking the husband s permission? he is the man of the house and has the right to know everything, to be obeyed and to fulfill his needs what about this? i dont see that females respecting their husbands is a problem. WEll regarding the communication with other man, we have no problem in this i do have my own friends and collegues my husband knows them and there is no problem about this.Many of the statetments you mentioned about prophet Mohamed are not true. I just want to tell you that most of the items you mentioned are not related to Islam, some of them are old traditions among ignorant people and are almost obsolete. Forgive me for the bad english it would have been easier to write in arabic or french.

To Miracatt :Honour Killing

Submitted by A New Believer on Wed, 2006-02-15 18:41.

Submitted by miracatt on Wed, 2006-02-15 17:08.

"This behaviour, which has absolutely nothing “honourable” about it, involves the murder of women by their male relatives for some perceived slight against the honour of the family unit. Primarily these slights are sexual in nature, ranging from something as serious as fornication to something as relatively innocuous as flirting with a man outside the family. A wife requesting a divorce is cited as another common motivation for honour killings, and they often occur simply because a girl refused to marry a partner chosen by pre-arrangement. There have even been instances where Muslim women have been killed because they had been raped, a crime which Islamic law often considers to be the fault of the woman, not the rapist)
What you call honour killings is not related to Islam at all these are horrible traditions in south Egypt "

Miracatt is absolutely right, there is nothing honourable about such things. BUt I should say Miracatt, do not fault "only southern eygptians!" I have have known of Palestinian, syrians, lebanese..among the non igornat ones that committ it. as for saudis, well yes, igorant.. that is without a doubt and the kuwaitis as well. but it goes on all over the Middle East. So please do not blame it all on your countrymen in the southern part of the nation . There is blame throughtout the islamic world to share around. Two such killings last year alone in the USA.

You feel alright about the other things.. that is for you, but I know other muslim women not half so overjoyed.

Odin be Praised! Baldur Save Us!

The ”Boykot Denmark” campaign

Submitted by Gorm on Wed, 2006-02-15 15:38.

Kind of weird – it seems to have the direct opposite effect.
Several companies have reported about increased sale – I’ll post more hard facts on this later.

Gorm

rotten hooker

Submitted by peace on Wed, 2006-02-15 14:50.

and donot forget to take your psychotic drug now before u start your nasty ringing tone ..hhahh

rotten hoooooooker,not even a nail toe

Submitted by peace on Wed, 2006-02-15 14:49.

you married the only man who wanted to marry u while u know he just wants a viusa but no problem with u as your men are all gays...
i am sure that u are ugly wrinckled old slut......you were weaping here all over for not having any man to look at ur face after that arabic man ran away from your ugly face...
i have a perfect wife u are not even to be compared to a nail from her foot toe .
donot forget to go and complain to bob hhahahh..

dirty filthy rotten hooker

Submitted by A New Believer on Wed, 2006-02-15 15:49.

dirty filthy rotten hooker peace baby boy! Ahh did Imran forget to whip you this morning again. Well I cannot do that I am a taken woman. By the way, FYI I am the one who had to stand for the identity papers. Scandinavian countries, have immigration standards also. Oh did you think he would leave
his beautiful country? hahahaha! Sorry, I am the one who had to apply dear. So that blew your theory to hell and back.

I keep tell you dear Imran willnot mind that you are a hideously old and wrinkled slut, bimbo gay drag queen cross dressing freak. He loves you! You play your cards right, you might even get to be first lady * nods to you* ah ha! See! See! It could happen. But first you are going to have to do something about that five o'clock shadow. Isn't it time for your hormonal injections, sweetie! You have to keep them up or you will not be able to have enough up top for the exspensive
breast implants. See if a Danish Doktor will do it. They are very good I hear. Ohh you have a wife, Grandama got her for you hunh! That will be so much fun then, she can watch you and Imran. But you cannot go around sharing her outfits! Do not be a pig, get some of your own. Stand up straight , chest out! gut sucked in. There that is better.. Loose that shade of red lipstick. Looks tacky on you! Do not forget to finish the electrolysis. Saw the website, you look mahvelous dahling, simply mahvelous! You must be something not everyone can do that, and with Paris Hilton's old boyfriend too! But the question we are all here dying to know! Is how the hell did Richie Sambora get that arm he calls ... MobyD up you! Wow! You are good! Does your wife know you are a bottom? Oh sorry she does now hunh! bye bye!

p.s. More Kohl around your eyes and you will look darling* under my breath* after you have those bags removed though.

Odin be Praised! Baldur Save Us!

HOW COME MUSLIMS INSULT JEWS

Submitted by antimuhammed on Wed, 2006-02-15 13:14.

MUSLIMS INSULT JEWS 24/7 AND NOW THEY ARE TELLING THE WEST AND THE WORLD, NO ONE HAS A RIGHT TO INSULT THEIR PROPHET?
HOW MORE TWISTED CAN YOU GET. HOW IN THE WORLD ARE THEY GOING TO ENFORCE OR STOP PEOPLE FROM INSULTING THEIR PROPHET AND WHOMEVER?
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO NOT OFFEND ANYONE. IT IS ALSO IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP SOMEONE FROM OFFENDING.

THE VERY WORD ISLAM, MUHAMMED, MUSLIM, KORAN IS HIGHLY OFFENSIVE TO ME AND MANY OTHERS. SO WHAT ABOUT OUR RIGHTS TO BE ACCEPTED? HEH?

ATHEISTS GET OFFENDED FOR PEOPLE USING THE WORD GOD OR ALLAH(DEVIL) BECAUSE THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN THE EXISTENCE OF A GOD OR A DEVIL. THEY ALSO DON'T BELIEVE IN THE WORLD'S MAN MADE RELIGIONS.
THERE ARE PEOPLE IN BETWEEN WHO ARE CALLED AGNOSTICS, THEY ARE OFFENDED IF YOU TRY TO MAKE THEM BELIEVE IN THE EXISTENCE OF GOD WITHOUT PROOF OR THE NON EXISTENCE OF GOD WITHOUT PROOF.

JEWS ARE OFFENDED IF PEOPLE DENY THE HOLOCAUST OR IF YOU SAY THEY DIDN'T COME FROM THE TRIBES OF ISRAEL AND FOLLOWED MOSAIC LAWS.
GAYS ARE OFFENDED AT STRAIGHTS
BLACKS ARE OFFENDED AT WHITE PEOPLE.
MEXICANS ARE OFFENDED TOWARDS BLACKS,
ASIANS ARE OFFENDED TOWARDS JAPANESE.
CAT'S ARE OFFENDED BY DOGS AND VICE VERSA.
JACK IN THE BOX IS OFFENDED AT MCDONALDS, BURGER KING IS OFFENDED AT WENDY'S.

CIRCUIT CITY IS OFFENDED AT BESTBUY,

CNN IS OFFENDED AT AL JAZEERA AND VICE VERSA.
DEMOCRATS ARE OFFENDED TOWARDS REPUBLICANS
COMMUNISTS ARE OFFENDED AT DEMOCRACY,

MUSLIMS ARE OFFENDED AT EVERYBODY,
AND I'M OFFENDED AT ALL HUMANS.

PRAISE BE THE KUNG FU GERBIL MASTER, MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU!

to this rotten jew

Submitted by peace on Wed, 2006-02-15 13:56.

you are really son of bitch ....you are teased i know that so well.
let your savior save u
hhhahah if he can ...to helll

JASON FUCKED MUHAMMED'S ASS!

Submitted by antimuhammed on Wed, 2006-02-15 12:29.

I THOUGHT ABOUT IT...MUHAMMED IN TURN DID A JIHAD ON JASON CAUSE THE OLD MUHAMMED IS A FAGGOT, THAT'S WHY ISLAMB OR ISLAM IS RELIGION FOR SISSY'S AND COWARDS AND PSYCHOTIC BASTARDS! THAT'S WHAT I THINK!
GONNA DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?

I'M IN SAN DIEGO CA...
FIND ME SO I CAN EXTERMINATE YOU MUSLIMS AND MUSLIM SCUMS!
JIHAD ON MUSLIMS IS WHAT I SAY!

EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO INSULT WHOMEVER. WHO MADE YOU RULER. THOSE WHO TRY TO FORCE THEIR WILL ON OTHERS USUALLY GET KILLED BY OTHERS WHO ARE TOUGHER AND MIGHTIER!

MUSLIMS ARE WEAK, SO THEY WILL BE DESTROYED IF THEY DON'T END THEIR VIOLENCE TOWARDS NON MUSLIMS!
MUSLIMS HAVE NO RELIGION OTHER THAN THEIR OWN. FUCK MUHAMMED AND HIS MOMMA! FUCK MUSLIMS AND THEIR MOMMAS. FUCK ALL YOU WHORES WHO WORSHIP MUHAMMED AND ALLAH. FUCK THE KORAN, FUCK THE MUSLIMS, FUCK THE JIHADISTS, FUCK ALL OF YOU, EXCEPT FOR NON MUSLIMS!
SO FUCK OFF YOU FUCKIN CAMEL JOCKIES. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT WHEN I INSULT YOUR MUHAMMED? I JUST SAID MUHAMMED IS AN ASSHOLE, GOAT SUCKING BITCH! SUCK ON THIS HO!

No body have right to insult any of the Prophets

Submitted by pkvoipking on Wed, 2006-02-15 12:06.

No body have right to insult any of the Prophets either of Islam or Christianity or any other religion

What if we publish picture of Jason raping Alex mother brutaly and fucking off....... will you laugh on it? or react

think on it........

Right to insult

Submitted by Bob Doney on Wed, 2006-02-15 12:58.

No body have right to insult any of the Prophets either of Islam or Christianity or any other religion

Who has decided this? I thought we did have that right.

Who are Jason and Alex?

Bob Doney

to bob

Submitted by peace on Wed, 2006-02-15 14:17.

then i have all rights to insult u

1 Fuck to Danes , Franks EU ( Christian Union)

Submitted by pkvoipking on Wed, 2006-02-15 12:04.

1) I agree that Muslims are not strong at the moment bcoz of lack of good leadership

2) Crusaders have to know that at end they will have a GREAT Defeat, its in the destiny of Crusaders!

3) As far as Israeil jews is concerned its the Evil in world and have no right to exist, if EU is so interested in establish Jews they must repeat a Holocaust again!

4) If you talk about opening churches in muslim countries, take example of PK a lot of churches, not even a single burned, do you want us to BURN it down and beat your chrisitians who are living peacefuly?

5) Pakistan should use it nuclear weapon on west or fuck it off in Musharaff

PVOIPKING

Submitted by A New Believer on Wed, 2006-02-15 14:13.

To PVOIPKING: No but maybe you should die, then what a wonderful world it would be!

Odin be Praised! Baldur Save Us!

nasty rotten hooker peace!

Submitted by A New Believer on Wed, 2006-02-15 14:36.

nasty rotten hooker peace! Hey so Imran said yes.. great. The sari looks darling, a little more eye shadow though dearie. Wax the hair on the tummy, if you are going to use a short sari blouse and the toes, that is just nasty. I am so glad you told your parents finally you were gay! I know! I know it was hard..but think of Imran and all that sweet loving you are getting! Nice hunh! And once again I am really sorry you got outed here on the forum, but look at it this way. Now everybody knows you are just a terribly ugly that you are so cute GAY teddy bear!

Well have to run, looking for I.G. Farben blueprints on the web. so we can build facilites to house Makamnaya's 6 million muslims. Though I am going to protest that. I mean honestly! I do not think we should incarcerate muslims. *giggles* I have another idea!........
*whistling a very old tune from 1938 and berlin...* see you!

Odin be Praised! Baldur Save Us!

rotten hooker peace

Submitted by A New Believer on Wed, 2006-02-15 14:48.

"rotten hooker
Submitted by peace on Wed, 2006-02-15 14:42.
you are really cheap slut"

You should not talk about yourself like that dear, you are getting 50 pfennig. You keep saving it up and then you can pay for your seat on the spaceship. Did I mention before that we are going to tax you on your way out! No.. well consider it done now!

La la la lalalalalalalalalala la la la la lalalalalalalala ( wish you could hear the little ditty I am singing right now. It would warm the cockles of your heart, Hmm! maybe not!)

Odin be Praised! Baldur Save Us!

to liberal american from nermin

Submitted by nermin on Sat, 2006-02-04 16:05.

to the american who ask why american muslims donot riot..what do you mean by that?. do youknow everything happen and how they react...may be because the officals denied the cartoons and absorbed their  anger .clinton said few days ago that this atatck on islam reminds him of antisemitism .

here is a link whcih shows you how islam is the fast growing in USA.

http://www.libertyunites.tv/ftopict-5663.html

Protest reply

Submitted by Patriot on Sat, 2006-02-04 16:26.

You see, if they protest here we'll throw them in jail. We've had enough of the bullshit this side of the Atlantic.

to this Patriot from nermin

Submitted by nermin on Sat, 2006-02-04 16:51.

throw whom Mr fool..i told u before the arabs or Muslims are not the red Indians you eradicate aggressively. wake up…will you throw more than 6 millions American Muslims in jail you are a terrorist here not anyone else.
Wake up again the Muslims by the confess of your liar Mr bush are contributing well to the advancement of your country. as it is well known that USA depend on import of brains from other nations…arabs there work in scientific research of your damned country.
I advice you Mr ignorant to go to your congers library an d see how islam is written on cuba hall there .islam I s the only religion written there among nations an countries which has influential contribution to humanity and civilization.
You donot know what is there in your country too

Well-said Bob. This is the type of constructive...

Submitted by Tolerance on Sat, 2006-02-04 15:39.

attitude that everyone needs. The discussion parties in this thread will hopefully see that not everyone in the muslim and christian world is full of hatred, and there will have to be peaceful solutions. We need to focus on the future, and there is no reason, if we don't succumb to our egos, that we all agree to live together in peace without thinking that one stream of beliefs is better than another. Well-said, keep up the good work.

We need to defend peace

Submitted by Tolerance on Sat, 2006-02-04 14:54.

We need to defend peace, tolerance, respect and end of violance. These are more important. And as muslims we must find ways to set examples of such nature. What is the objective here? In my view, to sustain our existence in this world, together. The main problem is, that members of each religion think that they are better than the others. This default is creating bigger and bigger rift between people. It should be the other way around. I am not sure if this is practically possible, if we don't manage to pull it, there will be no winners. As said in business, there is no win-loose solutions. If one party loses, the other may appear winner for a while, but at the end everyone loses. Let's think win-win, and let's try to find ways to initiate peace and tolerance, no matter what happened in the past. Isn't the objective a better future for everyone?

Win-win

Submitted by Bob Doney on Sat, 2006-02-04 16:01.

Let's think win-win, and let's try to find ways to initiate peace and tolerance, no matter what happened in the past.

In a spirit of mutual admiration (!!) I completely agree.

Bob Doney

to mr bob from nermin( thecase is more complicated)

Submitted by nermin on Sat, 2006-02-04 16:18.

your words are fine but current events donot show any hope for that.USA will never withdraw from iraq till it get assured that the last drop of oil is finished.
even if taht happened and bush or whover went down himself to check the oil well.they will never with draw ...because said it is a crusade war.recently he repeated the same concept in another way and said he willnot extremist to rebuild new caliph extend from spain to indonesia....
as if those extremist are able to build a room or even have any respect from any of the 57 islamic.

countries.
USA will not leave iraq .will not leave that area of the world.this is thenew imperialism in its new face..not like before...
USA will never leave that vital reigion in the arabic reigion.
and rabine mr Bob was the was launching the concept of breaking the bones of the intifada(uprising) of palstinians boys.also thereis something you dont hav ein mind whcih is alkodos( jerusalem) which contain the third blesed mosque in islam.whcih israel want it to be its capital and destroy it to build its temple instead.
aslo you donot know taht their plan i snot only palestine but the super big israel which extend from nile river to euphrate in iraq.
the case is more complicated than what you think Mr Bob.
it isnot only polotical but also religious an d other things unfortunatly.

Complicated

Submitted by Bob Doney on Sat, 2006-02-04 16:50.

USA will never withdraw from iraq till it get assured that the last drop of oil is finished.
even if taht happened and bush or whover went down himself to check the oil well.they will never with draw

The USA, like every country wants security more than anything else. Bush's presidency is nearly over, and his main interest now is domestic - health, pensions, deficits, and so on.

In the State of the Union address, one of Bush's main themes was to wean America off its dependency on oil. That will happen. Too many of the world's oil reserves are in politically unstable regions. I think the Americans have now realised that it is beyond their power to stabilise them by force, and will choose to use their technological power to replace oil as their primary fuel.

recently he repeated the same concept in another way and said he willnot extremist to rebuild new caliph extend from spain to indonesia....
as if those extremist are able to build a room or even have any respect from any of the 57 islamic

The defeat of extremism is almost certainly dependent on economic growth and prosperity.

USA will not leave iraq .will not leave that area of the world.this is thenew imperialism in its new face..not like before...
USA will never leave that vital reigion in the arabic reigion

As I hinted above, I believe the USA is already starting the process of withdrawal. Don't forget that what the Americans want above all is to make money. It may take 20 years, but with India and China growing so fast, the days of oil are numbered. The Chinese don't care who they do business with, just so long as they can get their raw materials. They have no interest in spreading freedom or democracy, and they will become the backers of the totalitarian regimes in your part of the world. See how they are already dealing with Sudan.

also thereis something you dont hav ein mind whcih is alkodos( jerusalem) which contain the third blesed mosque in islam.whcih israel want it to be its capital and destroy it to build its temple instead

I would suggest that it's likely that as part of an overall deal, the Israelis will be prepared to share the governance of Jerusalem. What they want above all is security.

aslo you donot know taht their plan i snot only palestine but the super big israel which extend from nile river to euphrate in iraq.

Some of the religious zealots may want that, but I think you'll find the majority of Israelis will settle for a lot less. Once again, what they want is security, and with their history, who can blame them?

the case is more complicated than what you think Mr Bob.
it isnot only polotical but also religious an d other things unfortunatly.

I couldn't possibly underestimate how complicated it all is. But people are clever and inventive, and those of us who want peace and justice must just keep working away at it. Whether or not there is Paradise after death, let's see if we can make things better in the meantime!!

Bob Doney

London mayor and palastinians

Submitted by nermin on Sat, 2006-02-04 13:54.

read and check our what nonmuslism , non arab says :


LONDON -
U.K. Jewish leaders reacted with outrage to the latest comments of Ken Livingstone, and called him "a lackey of the Muslim agenda" in
Great Britain and said he has "always had this extremist hatred of Jews and Israelis."

 

On Tuesday, Livingstone held a press conference in which he justified Palestinian terrorism against Israelis, saying, “The Palestinians don’t have jets and bombs, they only have their bodies to use as weapons."

 

open you rminds

Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential person

Submitted by nermin on Sat, 2006-02-04 13:57.

My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level."
Michael H. Hart, THE 100: A RANKING OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN HISTORY, New York: Hart Publishing Company, Inc., 1978, p. 33.