Ain’t Life a Bitch

From the desk of The Brussels Journal on Wed, 2006-10-11 08:34

A quote from Gideon Rachman on his blog, 10 October 2006

[Last Sunday, T]he EU’s environment commissioner, Stavros Dimas, [lamented] the fact that Europeans aren’t allowed to vote in American elections. Ain’t life a bitch, as they say on the other side of the Atlantic. Maybe the EU should take the issue up in trade talks with the United States. Perhaps there could be some sort of reciprocal arrangement. Greeks like Mr Dimas get to vote in the American presidential election – and in return Texans get to vote in the French presidential election.

Texas Vote

Submitted by flynn on Thu, 2006-10-12 15:25.

This Texan would vote to never, ever again help the pathetic appeasers of Europe (especially France).

 

European voting

Submitted by roughdoggo on Wed, 2006-10-11 23:28.

As a matter of fact, a number of European countries do allow non-citizens to vote in local elections, dependent on years of residency and other criteria. Thus, it's certain that a large number of American ex-pats actually vote - at least on the local level - in European elections. This is not including Americans holding dual citizenship - allowed by American law, by the way - who of course, have full voting rights in their countries of residence.

What I am implying is that individuals like "Freedom" (whose laughable moniker runs contrary to the spirit of the claims he spouts), "oiznop" (who aside from his regrettable limitations in vocabulary, should see his doctor before terminal apoplexy sets in), "David D" (a person sorely in need of instruction in the basics of spelling and grammar, and in the conventions of polite discourse) through apparent ignorance, are debasing the terms of debate.

Their attitudes and level of argument are those of a twelve-year with attitude, and lower the tone of the Brussels Journal, while at the same time giving serious conservatism a bad name. Get your facts right, learn the rudiments of writing and good manners, and THEN join the debate! Who knows - then, someone might even take you seriously.

RE: Roughdoggo's comments

Submitted by David_D on Fri, 2006-10-13 02:40.

Roughdoggo wrote:
"David D" (a person sorely in need of instruction in the basics of spelling and grammar, and in the conventions of polite discourse)
----
The misspellings are intentional. English grammar is flexible. The discourse was purposefully impolite.

Hey RoughDoggie.....

Submitted by oiznop on Thu, 2006-10-12 01:15.

If Mr. Stavros wants to influence the U.S. Elections, he can emmigrate to the U.S., become a LEGAL citizen of the U.S., get a job here, and register to vote.....if he chooses not to do that, then he needs to keep his MARXIST PIE HOLE SHUT, stay in Greece where he and his cronies can bamboozle the Euros with their global pap, and vacate any notion of choosing our leaders via his clown friends and the commission.....As for the facts, as you put it, the EU, and the UN wish to achieve their new world order, which is brought on by a desire to have tremedous influence on what happens politically in the United States, if not bring down the United States..... Translation, they want to turn us all into "citizens of the world"....The time for good manners with people like Mr. Stavros Dimas, and the radical left is OVER!..If anything, people like him wrote the book on bad manners when it comes to the views of people who disagree with them...The time to talk tough with these "secular progressive utopians" is now...I may have the mentality of a 12 year old in your eyes with my attitude, but unlike your eyes, mine are open, and are open WIDE!.......

Dimas voting and the like

Submitted by roughdoggo on Thu, 2006-10-12 03:05.

Gee boys and girls, I'm sorry if I stepped on so many toes!

Perhaps I should start with "Freedom", who says I should acquaint myself with the facts. Okay, "Freedom", here's a fact for you to chew on: Dimas is not a socialist, as you claim (nor is he a Marxist, as "oiznop" seems to think) - he is a member of the leading Greek conservative party, Nea Dhimokratia/New Democracy, stalwart supporters of the United States throughout the years (see >en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stavros_Dimas<).

All I can say about "Freedom's" e-mail to Dimas is, nice going, "Freedom", sending an insulting letter to to a conservative politician at a time when the US needs all the allies it can get. Simply brilliant.

But I guess facts don't matter when people go ballistic.

And what was the great crime of Mr Dimas? A look at >euobserver.com/24/22596< gives a more nuanced view of what actually was said than what some jaundiced journalist took out of context. Essentially, it appears that Dimas regrets that Gore lost the election because he would have taken a stronger environmental stance than the current US administration. When Dimas said he wished Europeans could vote in US elections (note - not "lamented" that they couldn't), he seems to me to have been expressing regret - not any serious claim that Europeans should really have the say over the US. In fact, he calls for the US to take the lead in the fight to save our planet.

So, "Freedom" perhaps it is YOU who should learn how to read before rolling around like a loose cannon on deck.

"oiznop", you're getting better - only one phrase not to be repeated in polite company. Keep it up, and I'm sure a dialogue will ensue.

Dimas voting and the like

Submitted by roughdoggo on Thu, 2006-10-12 03:15.

Sorry about the previous transmission, where a technical error ran text together and eliminated a chunk - my fault. Should have read:

Gee boys and girls, I'm sorry if I stepped on so many toes!
Perhaps I should start with "Freedom", who says I should acquaint myself with the facts. Okay, "Freedom", here's a fact for you to chew on: Dimas is not a socialist, as you claim (nor is he a Marxist, as "oiznop" seems to think) - he is a member of the leading Greek conservative party, Nea Dhimokratia/New Democracy, stalwart supporters of the United States throughout the years (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stavros_Dimas).

All I can say about "Freedom's" e-mail to Dimas is, nice going, "Freedom", sending an insulting letter to to a conservative politician at a time when the US needs all the allies it can get. Simply brilliant.

But I guess facts don't matter when people go ballistic.

And what was the great crime of Mr Dimas? A look at the euobserver website (euobserver.com/24/22596) gives a more nuanced view of what actually was said than what some jaundiced journalist took out of context. Essentially, it appears that Dimas regrets that Gore lost the election because he would have taken a stronger environmental stance than the current US administration. When Dimas said he wished Europeans could vote in US elections (note - not "lamented" that they couldn't), he seems to me to have been expressing regret - not any serious claim that Europeans should really have the say over the US. In fact, he calls for the US to take the lead in the fight to save our planet.

So, "Freedom" perhaps it is YOU who should learn how to read before rolling around like a loose cannon on deck.

"oiznop", you're getting better - only one phrase not to be repeated in polite company. Keep it up, and I'm sure a dialogue will ensue.

Re: Dimas voting and the like - Part I

Submitted by Freedom on Thu, 2006-10-12 06:35.

Thank you for enlightening me! I must apologize, I see you do know how to read the Wikipedia. However, had you bothered reading what I wrote you would have seen that I also said: "though I feel the same way about anyone else regardless of political party"

I am gratified that my telling you to read sent you running to the Wikipedia. Bravo!!! Bravissimo!!! Yes, I also should have done my research, unlike you I didn't (though it didn't substantially change anything I expressed) and that was wrong! My apologies, again, Sir.

Now, do me a personal favor, please. Reread your own original post, specifically: "As a matter of fact, a number of European countries do allow non-citizens to vote in local elections, dependent on years of residency and other criteria. Thus, it's certain that a large number of American ex-pats actually vote - at least on the local level - in European elections. This is not including Americans holding dual citizenship - allowed by American law, by the way - who of course, have full voting rights in their countries of residence." Come now, whoever wrote that implied that anyone should have the right to vote here. Have the intellectual honesty to admit that is what you meant. If that was not what you meant, then you write in a rather confusing manner... yet you pontificate about your superior intellect... hmmmnn!

Voting is a privilege, a privilege one earns by being born in the specific country or by living a certain amount of time in the area where he or shr will vote and becoming a citizen if the person wishes to vote in national elections. That is exactly the way it should be!

____________________________________________________________________

Freedom isn't just the right to do as one pleases, freedom carries responsibility and maintaining freedom is a never ending job.

Re: Dimas voting and the like - Part II

Submitted by Freedom on Thu, 2006-10-12 06:47.

Now, Rughdoggo, my moniker may seem laughable to you and that's fine with me. But if you are so smart why do you not disprove the validity of my thoughts rather than have to resort to ad hominem attacks on me. Or... are you not capable, perhaps, of the civilized dialog you so eloquently advocate?!?

In your last post you write: "Essentially, it appears that Dimas regrets that Gore lost the election because he would have taken a stronger environmental stance than the current US administration. When Dimas said he wished Europeans could vote in US elections (note - not "lamented" that they couldn't), he seems to me to have been expressing regret - not any serious claim that Europeans should really have the say over the US. In fact, he calls for the US to take the lead in the fight to save our planet." Gideon Rachman, who wrote the article referred to in the original post here (which I commented on) was present when the Honorable Commissioner uttered those words... You'll have to forgive me, but I will trust Mr. Rachman's perceptions, of what and how it was said, over yours. By the way, Mr. Dimas - we both agree - sounded like he would have voted for Gore over Bush... I didn't realize Gore was the conservative candidate... at least I learned something from you!

__________________________________________________________________________

Freedom isn't just the right to do as one pleases, freedom carries responsibility and maintaining freedom is a never ending job.

Re: Dimas voting and the like - Part III - Final

Submitted by Freedom on Thu, 2006-10-12 06:59.

As for my insulting letter, as you put it, if Mr. Dimas is so thin skinned as to actually be hurt by my remarks... he never would have made it in politics. Whatever his true positions, my missive will certainly not affect him one way or another!

I could go on comparing your various posts and point out the inconsistencies in logic, the shifting positions you take, but I'll spare us all the boredom of such a task... I will tell you to remember this: it is better to remain silent and be thought pompous than to open one's mouth and dispel everyone’s doubts.

I will now consider this subject closed and will respond no further, regardless of what insults you find it necessary to heap upon me... Go ahead, have a field day!

______________________________________________________________

Freedom isn't just the right to do as one pleases, freedom carries responsibility and maintaining freedom is a never ending job.

RE: European Voting

Submitted by Freedom on Thu, 2006-10-12 01:04.

"

a number of European countries do allow non-citizens to vote in local elections, dependent on years of residency and other criteria.

Mr. Dimas does not live, nor does he intend to live, in the US. Therefore, according to your own words his desire to vote in the US elections is presumptuous. I am not American by birth and yet before I became a citizen I voted in the local (not national) elections of the locality where I resided. That, however, is very different from the likes of a pompous EU Commissioner (Socialist, in this case, though I feel the same way about anyone else regardless of political party) wanting to vote here so he can impose his failed ideas on Americans.

It seems, Sir, you should be the one acquainting yourself with the facts while learning to read before you "lower the tone of the Brussels Journal, while at the same time giving serious conservatism a bad name." Think about it!

______________________________________________________________________
Freedom isn't just the right to do as one pleases, freedom carries responsibility and maintaining freedom is a never ending job.

Waste of time

Submitted by drphilosopher on Wed, 2006-10-11 22:03.

I'm not sure why people are so upset.  Mr. Dimas's proposal doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of becoming reality, and that just proves that he is a flake.

Re: Send him an e-mail!.....

Submitted by Freedom on Wed, 2006-10-11 19:39.

Here is the email I just sent to the EU Environment Commissioner, Stavros Dimas:

If I, an American living in Brooklyn New York, do not have the right to vote in any European country (and rightly so!) what makes a pompous cretin with a bloated sense of worth, like you, think that you have the right to vote in my country?

What do you know, or care - for that matter, about the everyday issues that affect me as an American? Aren't you overstepping your mandate? Why do you not work hard instead to convince the overwhelming majority of Europeans that the European Union is actually a good thing. Do that, if you can, before you dare foist yourself on an American public totally disgusted with ideas the EU is unable to sell to its own people whether in Ireland, Holland, etc, etc.

Honorable Commissioner Dimas, with all due respect to your august title... KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF

    MY

 COUNTRY!!!!!

Though I seriously doubt I will, I would appreciate receiving an answer, if... you are capable of an intelligent, reasoned, non-pompous, non-condescending debate.

Anxiously awaiting your answer (which I know will never come!). Meanwhile, I will post this on my blog Freedom's Cost

for everyone to see and comment.

_____________________________________________________________________________

Freedom isn't just the right to do as one pleases, freedom carries responsibility and maintaining freedom is a never ending job.

This is normal

Submitted by Frank Lee on Wed, 2006-10-11 17:28.

I have heard the same argument about Europeans deserving to vote in American elections made, at great length, by European (former) friends.  These people are not ignorant; rather, they are highly educated and have spent some time in America.  The plain truth that Germany and the rest of Europe would not need to envy American's power if they would simply provide for their own defense and step up to the plate regarding their international responsibilities does not occur to them. 

EUrocrats have lost touch with reality

Submitted by David_D on Wed, 2006-10-11 15:59.

Stavros Dimwit has lost touch with reality. He's probably not alone, either. What gives him the idea that he should vote in US elections. This is plain envy of American power. The Europeeans believe they are better than everyone else and, by rights, should control the world. Euro-land destroyed themselves through their own arrogance and incompetence between 1914 and 1945.

What about today???

Submitted by oiznop on Wed, 2006-10-11 16:19.

Euro-land destroyed themselves through their own arrogance and incompetence between 1914 and 1945.

They aren't doing a bad job of it now, also!

It would funny...

Submitted by Freedom on Wed, 2006-10-11 14:06.

It would be funny if Mr. Dimas wouldn't be serious. The idiocy, the gall, the appalling nerve of this leftist piece of devil's dung is beyond words!

Well, Stavros, you will die a very disappointed man if you seriously expect such a development to happen.

_________________________________________________________________________

Freedom isn't just the right to do as one pleases, freedom carries responsibility and maintaining freedom is a never ending job.

Hey Stavros, F YOU

Submitted by oiznop on Wed, 2006-10-11 13:20.

Hey Stavros, F YOU BUDDY!!!...you keep your F--ING John Lennon, One World Order, Global Warming CRAP over there!!!.....The day that you leftist marxist weasels start to vote in OUR ELECTIONS via the UN and it's socialist BS is the day this American makes a(n)(ILLEGAL) FIREARMS PURCHASE!!!!!......