Dear BitShifter:

You asked "When will this senseless actions stop?"

When we get ruthless and kill them in the streets and clog the gutters and sewers with their blood.

Ruthlessness is the only language Islam understands.

When will this senseless actions stop? I often wonder what all this violence mean. It's an age old question, but it has never been answered so forgive me for asking this moldy old query again. Does this give a shoutout? A means to get noticed? Noticed indeed, but only to look like complete idiots.

just a general coment to all other coments, read nostrodamas.......and there is the answer to every qestion about muslims,too simple ?

In an earlier post I said that the French were going to have to send in their army at some point to stop the growing Intifada which seems to be esculating to the point where the types of units and weapons police forces usually have are not going to cut it.  However, I had not reckoned with the fact that the French army is now an estimated 15% or more Muslim.  So, the next question is, will Muslim soldiers in the French army fight against their Muslim brothers?  Some posters on other blogs have speculated that the reason French troops have not been deployed so far is because of questions about their loyalty.  

When you become an American citizen you swear allegiance to the U.S. and part of that oath states that you swear allegiance  "without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion."  How such an oath is worded or if there is such an oath in each of the countries of Europe I do not know. However, a little research shows that Muslims are allowed to use the deceptive techniques of "Takiyya" or dissimilation and "Kitman" or mental reservation, particularly in their dealings with Infidels, if to do so will advance the individual Muslim's situation and especially if it will advance the ultimate goals of Islam.  Disquieting as this information is, I found it, taken with this quote from the well known medieval Egyptian theologian Muhammad Ghazzali (Ghazali) even more ominous.  Ghazzali wrote that..." Muslims could live under non-Muslim rule as long as they do not forget that they are Allah's missionaries and, if needed, His soldiers."

It seems to me that many Muslims see themselves first and foremost as members of the "umma"- the body of Muslim believers and it is to Islam and the umma, not the country they live in, that their primary allegiance goes.

Nothing annoys me more than hearing comments about America from know-nothing fools. A gang of 30 masked youths anywhere in America who attack the police will be killed by machine gun fire from the SWAT team in that city. Furthermore, the people will applaud.

Although France, England and all of Europe were saved from the Germans in WWI and WWII by American troops and supplies and then liberated yet again from potential Communist domination when the U.S. won the Cold War, I doubt that the U.S.--in our era unthanked, mocked and spit on by France and a whole host of ungrateful countries we saved--will be coming over the hill like the cavalry yet again to bail Europe out of another mess she has created..  Europe, lead by France has, by its creation of Eurabia, probably signed its own death warrant.  The cancer of the slow motion Muslim invasion and conquest of Europe is so far advanced and has so widely metastasized that any attempt to cut it out or use chemo or radiation will probably pretty much destroy or severely cripple many of the countries involved.

The site listed has several articles dealing with this general subject: http://markhumphrys.com/islamist.war.html

@ Chris Brown

We are on the same 'page' w.r.t. opposition to shoot-to-kill police methods.  But let's be honest, (1) you know that I know that you are NOT the one who advocated such police methods for France, but (2) you ARE the one who mixed 'apples with oranges', by proposing as an alternative "offering better job and educational opportunities".   

I take your point about "the lemons", in the sense that it was an extreme comparison.  Extremes have a way of 'clarifying' an issue.  But I do not accept that it was a "mixing of different 'fruits', in the context of concepts of "law and order". 

Please, do not 'borrow' words (like "pompous terms") from the superficialist that is 'voyager'.  You asked me a direct question, and I will give you a clear answer (without hiding behind pompous terms).  If I were "in charge", I would (a) enforce the law - all laws if possible - in BOTH France and the USA, to fight criminal behavior, and (b) I would try to make French labor markets more flexible to lower unemployment there and bring it more in line with unemployment rates in the US, Ireland, etc.  I recognise that (b) would be an uphill struggle, no an impossible task, given the state of cultural taboes existing today in France.

The often remarked upon demographic decline of Europe coupled with the influx of hundreds of thousands of unassimilable Musim "immigrants" with sky-high birth rates--subsidized by European social systems I might add--makes for a slow motion Muslim invasion when Muslims concentrate in certain areas and increasingly make a claim that areas they concentrate in are now de facto Muslim territory and press for their host country to cede them de jure control and let them rule by Sharia law.  Making majority Muslim areas into "no-go" areas is part of this strategy.  Muslims are not immigrants but rather colonists and see themselves as such.  Unless France and other Western countries want to see more and more chunks of their territory occupied by enemy Muslims and slipping out of their control, they had better assert their authority in unmistakable terms, contest every foot and not give an inch. 

I think it was previous contributors that suggested the French police should shoot to kill like the cops in America. I mealy suggested that was not a good idea. Also I don't think I said France was better than the US but said compares well. Lets be honest some parts of urban America are fuck up and some are not (Just like France). As for me comparing apples and oranges well I think you are throwing in a few lemons by comparing France to North Korea and Nazi Germany.

But all this discussion is a diversion. My view is I do not see how overreaction and heavy handed policing will help improve the problems of the Parisian suburbs. Where as I do think better job and education opportunities for young people (of all religions and beliefs) will. I think a lot of the problems in France are similar to those in the UK in the 1980. Those being mass youth unemployment. Even with the extra issue of the Islamic dimension. Obviously my views are at odds with most people who visit this Web site. You hide your views behind pompous terms like ‘normative statement’ and ‘value judgments’ but seem reluctant to simply state your own option. If you were in charge what would you do?

@ Chris Brown

I feel sympathy for your opposition to 'automatic' shoot-to-kill policies to control crime.  But you keep mixing apples with oranges, in this case you fail to make a distinction between positive (factual) statements and normative statements.

Your suggestion that shoot-to-kill policies are standard American police procedure is not a factual statement, i.e. does not correspond to reality.  It may well be a common caricature perpetuated by 'European' media, but that only should encourage you to be more careful about making normative statements (value judgements) without knowing the facts very well.

The assertion that France compares well with America in "law and order terms" is also a very dubious normative statement.  After all, the same could be said of the nazis and of North Korea today.   Which "law" and what "order"?  Law is always a reflection of the political system of which it forms a part.  A political system which curtails freedom of speech surely tramples on its citizens basic rights and guarantees poor 'information availability'.  Also, a multitude of 'laws' that are not effectively enforced are not particularly characteristic of scoring well in "law and order terms".  I am sure that both France and the US have their own failings in these respects, but your assertion about France being "better" is, to say the least, dubious. Such an opinion should be held with a more sceptical attitude. 

The French and American 'Revolutions' occurred around the same time in the late 18th century.  But France is already in its 5th Republic, whereas the Americans are still using the same Constitution. That should make you pose about deeper meanings concerning "law and order".
    

.. correct me if I am wrong, this US v France debate started because some commentators took the view that French cop should have killed an Arab boy as a reaction to getting hit by a stone. Some also put forward the idea that this would/could not happen in the US as American police are shoot first and ask questions latter. (What are the stats for American/French police getting killed whilst on duty?), The point I wanted to make is that not shooting to kill was probably the best thing to do and although the outcome may have been imperfect France compares quite well to America in law and order terms.

But I think offering better job and educational opportunities is a better idea than instigating a shoot to kill policy on the streets of Paris.

@ Mr. Brown,

Got news for ya!...Better job and educational opportunities come from less government burdens, allowing the people to flourish and prosper, not from the socialist model that includes appeasments, welfare, high taxes and regulations that have been plaguing Europe...Translation, it's not the government's job to provide better employment and educational opportunities...that my fine liberal friend is up to the individual. Ask yourself this....These items that you call for in your typical liberal naiveté...Do you really think this is what the Islamo-infiltrators want from the Governments of Western Europe?....I think not....Because they are incompatalbe with their belief and values system...(if you can call it that!).......

Poster Chris Brown is advocating job programs and increased educational opportunities as the solution to Muslim violence in France. Nothing could be more useless, in my opinion. If you follow world events, read the Koran, investigate the actual deeds and words of Muhammad, look at the writings of radical Muslim thinkers and review how Islam has dealt with Infidels when it has waxed in power, it is obvious that we are in the early stages of a world-spanning war by Muslims against all infidels, their religions and ideologies, their socieites and nations. In the West, France just happens to present the most acute phase at the moment.

Muslims are fighting on two fronts--the overt military and terrorist front and the civil-legal front. The jihadists kill and intimidate us, the "peaceful Muslim" types flood the West with immigrants (read colonists), outbreed native poopulations and continually press for imposition of elements of Sharia law and special priveleges. Muhammad said "War is deception" and Muslims can use both the techniques of "Taqiyya" or dissimilation and "Kitman" or mental reservation against unbelievers when to do so will advance the Muslim cause.

The French are being double-teamed--young Muslim rioters in the public housing estates use the terrorist approach of attack and proclaim their control of the area while their more "moderate" elders employ the civil-legal approach and ask for French concessions to stop the violence. The ultimate goal is always Muslim domination of the West.

Does this sound like situation amenable to social work solutions?

@ Chris Brown

One should not mix up apples with oranges.  The assertion under 'dispute' is whether there are no-go areas for police in American suburbs.  That is manifestly nonsense.   Whether there are such no-go areas in France I do not know with certainty, but I would NOT make such a categorical assertion about France as 'Hasselm' made about the USA. We should expose prejudice and misinformation when we see it, because this is a false assertion that can be verified by empirical observation and should not be misused in a normative statement.

The reasons for differences in murder rates and in employment rates between countries are varied and complex.  One can not 'explain' these in a few paragraphs.  But, different policies to lower unemployment or to strengthen labor force participation  should not be confused with different attitudes and policies to tackle crime.  By juxtaposing them in the way you did, you are mixing up apples and oranges, and are probably contributing to popular misunderstanding of complex problems. Or, to put it very concretely, a policy of NOT-shoot-to-kill by police in France will not contibute anything to making labor markets in France more flexible to lower unemployment there. And, conversely, a tougher attitude by police in the USA versus in France, does neither explain (official) higher murder rates and lower enemployment rates in the USA.

The murder rate in France is about 17 per million compared to the US where it is 42 per million. OK, so the French are having problems with youth violence in the suburbs (often with mainly Muslim populations). But I think offering better job and educational opportunities is a better idea than instigating a shoot to kill policy on the streets of Paris.

Hasselm is probably remembering Kurt Russell's old movie, Escape from New York.

Hollywood should produce a new one, Escape from Paris. 
 

It seems that you are well educated about "America-like" suburbs..

I am amazed to see someone compare the ghetto suburbs in France to the suburbs in The USA, totally clueless comment. Another thing, the police here DO NOT put up with the sh!t the French police do... Recently there was a murder of a police officer and his K-9 in Florida, after a couple of days hunting this piece of garbage they found him, still armed. There were 9 officers (probably swat, but not sure), 110 rounds fired 68 hitting the cop killer, JUSTICE SERVED!! These sons of allah would not dare riot here in the USA, let alone attack a police officer with any kind of weapon, the police take the assualt of an officer very seriously, it is not acceptable behavior from anyone. The Frenchies need to grow some nads and stand up for themselves and for their country.

In case you haven't noticed, the police in the US frequently shoot to kill when threatened.
The armed young thugs in Paris wouldn't stand a chance against the police here in the US.

In addition, because most parts of the USA have wisely avoided gun control laws,
there is a really good chance that such youthful thugs might also be shot by
folks in the neighborhood who simply didn't like their behavior.

What planet does Hasselm live on??? American suburbs are the epitome of yuppie propriety. Any American cop will tell you that casually cruising the suburbs is a cakewalk.
 

@ Sam

Where do you think she got that mistaken idea (of no-go areas for police in US cities)?  From the so-called 'quality' European media of course, i.e. the one with the ideological 'agenda' where empirical observation is not highly valued.  And, it is clear that she is a European.  If she were an American, she might have perhaps referred to "inner cities", but certainly not to "suburbs".

First, I don't know where one poster got the idea that there are a lot of no-go areas in U.S. cities but, think again.  U.S. police forces are usually very well armed and quite willing to use their weapons if need be;  many U.S. police forces now have SWAT units that they regularly deploy. The French, architects of Eurabia, have sealed their own fate by deliberately creating circles of Muslim public housing, like a noose, around most French cities. They've been unwilling to acknowledge the growing Muslim violence in areas that are in reality no-go areas and and now this unacknowledged violenct is starting to escalate out of control. At some point French police and military forces will have to enforce French sovereignty over these areas or concede that they have lost de facto control over part of their national territory to Muslim invaders who have bettered their predecessors who were turned back by Charles Martel at the battle of Tours in the 8th century A.D.    

"we will be having America-like suburbs, which not even the police will dare to enter and to patrol."

What fantasy world do you live in, that you imagine the suburbs here are anything like that? And as for the incident itself, what do you expect, when you castrate the police by disarming them? Do you really expect thugs to just comply, even though they have more arms than the police?

Take on the police here, and you'll get shot. And that's a good thing.

I agree with the last poster, Bob. The sentence on anti-Jewish violence is added on to the first story. But add them together and you get one message: the muslims on these apartment estates refuse to live with either the ethnic French and ethnic Jews, hate them both, view attacking to police as a way to form their own mini-Arabic state, and this patern is being repeated, quietly, all over Europe, the US, Australia and elsewhere I'm sure. We must all stand together in this.
_______________________________________________
Defend Christendom. Defend Jewry. Oppose socialism in Europe.

"
The fact that this is of primary concern shows that we non-jews are regarded as mere dog shit." "Primary concern"? It's an aside at the end of an article about violence against French police.

"The French police also registered 10 to 12 anti-Jewish incidents per day in the past 30 days throughout the country."
The fact that this is of primary concern shows that we non-jews are regarded as mere dog shit.
 

This does not suprise me at all. If the police keeps refusing appropriate reactions to such attacks ( including the use of tear gas, pepper spray etc. themselves), we will be having America-like suburbs, which not even the police will dare to enter and to patrol.
This will culminate in those suburbs ( rather ghettos) having their own law and justice sights.

This reminds me of Banlieu 13. A movie about France having lost control over certain parts of its territory. A tribal society divided through crime into ghetto's. A nuke goes missing and some 'good guy' has to team up with a cop to try and recover it. But not everything is what it seems.
The French government wanted to 'clean up' the area by giving the wrong desarmament codes which would have trigged the nuclear warhead. Perhaps Chirac ought to consider it...afterall he said that they'd strike with a nuke in case of some severe form of terrorism.

I had always heard that the French police services, especially the Gendarmerie were notorious for their severity. This is sad.

Bon Jour??...Police Squadron du Paris?......This is the Frogistan Castration Company....We're curious as to when you would like to have your BALLS returned????