Hmz, my comment of yesterday had 'disappeared': I sense a smell of censorship. Apparently some points of view on this website can not stand the test of open debate.

So, the Troll Pig returns. It seems that you have learned to be somewhat coherent, although your intelligence level still seems quite low. You have picked up some language capability since you emmigrated there-now you can try to obtain some knowledge to accompany your basic language skill.

No, it isn't. Now stop being silly.

Bob Doney

I think Saharian is trolling and spouting nonsense, which I'm sure is the only kind of sense that he has.

Saharian: "Remember, optimism is cowardice."

No, it isn't. Optimism is optimism. I don't make an effort to remember nonsense.

Bob Doney

@ Bruyns
 

1) Jews lived longer outside and INSIDE Palestine than muslims and christians.   What is your point?  I do not deny that Arabs have legitimate rights in Palestine.  I simply deny that it is solely "their" land.  Once again, those who want to 'UNDO' history will never know peace.  That is why there is no genuine 'peace', i.e. tolerance (democracy!), anywhere in the Arab world.

2) What nonsense.  Europe is not being overwhelmed by "refugees".  Europe is 'attracting' so-called refugees, and it is exclusively European governments who are directly responsible for that. That makes the European electorates indirectly responsible.  

3) Arabs were no part in the war?  What is wrong with the education system in Belgium today? Which war do you mean?  In world war II Arabs were sympathetically allied with the nazis.  And the Iranian (nonarab) government is still today quoting nazi sources in its denial of the holocaust.  As to Israel's independance war, once again, Arabs rejected the UN-mandated partitioning of Palestine.  Since then, they have on 4 occasions with different armies from various Arab countries tried to destroy Israel.  I think last year's unilateral withdrawal from Gaza was the last the Israelis will ever undertake again UNILATERALLY.  Every time they have given up land (acquired after being invaded from it) in the past they have been repaid with more terrorism and vows of destruction. 

....

@MarcFrans

1. Jews lived longer outside israel/palestine than inside.

2. In Europe, 'refugees' are also coming in masses and overwhelming us. That's obviously OK for you.

3. Arabs were no part in the war: why should they suffer for the problems of others?

Final point: the Arabs are also a major minority in Europe now. Maybe they should press for a partition of France or Belgium to make their own country. If it is OK for the jews to do so, then why not for the Arabs?

The UN partition was questioned by both sides by the way. That's why the jews blowed up Count Bernadotte when he came to investigate the Arab complaint that the jews were ethnically cleansing beyond their borders.

I see that you repeat yourself in this thread calling the Right committed to "outdated" principles of non violence.

Bizarre. I didn't know that the Dalai Lama was Christian Right.

Islam will change. In fact, it already is. It's the women. They won't put up with it.

Bob Doney

Bob you stated: "Sorry, mate, you're in the wrong century. Try another link"

Don't be so sure Bob for it is only a matter of time when Europe will be back in the 7th century if Islam has its way.

Sorry, mate, you're in the wrong century. Try another link.

Bob Doney

Quite the Machiavellian approach!....I am not so sure that either of the ideas you listed will be put forth by the sellouts in the EU....

Oh...and another thing....to give you all some idea where the Christian church (as a whole, not just Catholic) is headed, take a look at this link.....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=416003&in_page_id=1770
You'd better pray that your child is born healthy, because if it's not, he/she will be a burden on society!!..A burden that, if the looney leftists get their way, will be eliminated without any questions....This world is going straight to the dogs....and as this article indicates, some people will be treated as such!....
 
 
 
 

I guess the term "leadership" was injected hap-hazardly...Sorry about that....what I should have said was "more appeasement from another church order".......

This description from a Wikipedia article on Jesuits is appropriate to their activities of recent times. The article does not examine in detail, but the Jesuits have been very influential in spreading the gospel of liberation theology( path to socialism), to the ignorant masses via religion. The quote:

"There is also a claim common among many anti-Catholics that the Jesuit Superior General rules the Vatican behind the scenes.

Within the Catholic Church, some Jesuits are criticized by some parties for being overly liberal and deviating substantially from official Church teaching and papal directives, especially on such issues as abortion, priestly celibacy, homosexuality, and liberation theology.[13] However, most Jesuits agree with church teaching on these matters. Pope Benedict XVI, like his predecessor John Paul II, has been particularly critical of the order.[14] Indeed, it is not unusual, especially in more conservative Catholic outlets, to hear calls for the outright abolishment of the Jesuit order. Thus, some may argue that the future influence of the Jesuits in the Catholic community, and perhaps their very existence, remains uncertain".

They are not ignorant appeasers, but a part of the leftist apparatus that wants people to be controlled and without liberties as individuals. Maybe this is the attraction between the leftists and muslims. Their end goal is almost identical.

There is a bloodbelt running over the earth, from the Phillipines to marocco, and everywhere islam is making contact with anything else - be it Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, Christians, Confusianists, Hindus, Jews, or nature Gods, everywhere there is war and violent conflict. By importing islam into the west, we also imported war and violent conflict. The only way out of this mess, is sending them back to where they came from. Appeacement and waiting with sending them home, will worsen the situation, because of their rapidly increasing numbers.
Btw, did you know that most of the so called palestinians are descendants of muslims from the Balkan who left on the invitation by the mufti of Jerusalem, after the collaps of the ottoman empire, so relative newcommers?
I cannot believe Jesuits do not know about the former Christian Empire of Byzantium and the kingdoms of Syria and Egypt.

I think the Jesuits misunderstood. That was supposed to be "turn the other cheek," not "bend over and spread your cheeks."

ok, so we are to believe all the muslim violence is becuase the Jews are in the place so mistakenly called Palestine. Then why are the Muslims killing Christians in Somalia or Buddist in Thailand or Indonesia or The Philopines?
Becuase there are Jews in Palestine? come on people wake up it is becuase they are commanded to offer comversion or offer the sword as is it written in the Koran. But remember if all the Jews would just leave Palestine all the violence would end......................right?

It's chock full of flakes and nuts.@FLLaw33870: Ease up, bro. Whatever your feelings about the Jesuits, calling them children of Satan and ranting about what YOUR "true God" says should be done in the Middle East makes you look like a zealous fanatic every bit as dangerous and suspect as the Mohammedans. Also, you should work on your reading skills. Maybe you just missed it, but:
"...the volatile Israeli-Palestinian question, which, according to the viewpoint shared by the entire Islamic world..."

Citing someone's opinion is not the same as accepting or endorsing it.Y'know, it seems that everytime someone identifies themselves as a generic Christian "who has read the Bible for themselves" they just end up illustrating why a dedicated priesthood is a good thing.

It has become fashionable for the leftists to become supportive of religion. Even Daniel Ortega and that other loudmouth, who tried to villify Bush, are using religion for their political purposes. Even Castro has allowed some concessions to the Catholic church. There has been activity for leftist purposes within many of the organized religions, and many of them spend more time and effort on causes of the left and collections for the UN, than they do teaching the bible or Christ.

For a very easy but descriptive analysis of the recent history of the Palestinian and Israel issue, go to: www.conceptwizard.com/conen/conflict_2.html

This explanation places the situation within context of the times.

@ Bruyns

A few facts and thoughts for you to ponder.  It may help in resisting the distorted views you hold based on what you read in the naive-left media. 

1) People with a jewish culture lived in Judea, Samaria, and Galilee, many centuries before any people with a muslim or christian culture.  

2) At the founding of Israel in 1948, there were more jewish refugees than 'arab' ones.  The jews integrated their refugees, the Arabs never did.  Why should continued bad behavior be rewarded today? 

3) After world war 2 many people in the world ended up "feeling" that some of their land was taken without their consent.  Germans, Poles, etc....to name but a few.  Those population (and land) shifts were much more massive than the one in 'Palestine'.  Peace requires 'compromise' in contested territories.  The Arabs refused to accept the UN-mandated partitioning plan for the British Protectorate (taken from the Turks after world War 1), even though they got the great majority of the land assigned (mainly Jordan today). The jews accepted the plan.  Your view seems to be that those who refuse to make 'peace' should be rewarded for that behavior, and the Poles and Germans were stupid to make 'peace'.  Why should the Arabs be the only people in the world who may continue to want to 'undo' history, whereas the rest of us have swallowed the necessary compromises in the past?    

4) Palestinian "suffering" is indeed "unnecessary".  But the responsibility for that suffering rests primarily and overwhelmingly with the Arabs themselves.   Hint: do you see them making the necessary compromises in Irak today, even among themselves?

To whom this land belongs to is debatable. I would suggest reading the book,-"Whose Promised Land?" It takes an in-depth look at why both sides feel this piece of land belongs to them. It is not a trivial thing and one cannot trust what one hears just via the media or simplify it by a news soundbite.

Why complaining about muslim colonization of Europe, while allowing jewish colonization of Palestine? Is colonialism and ethnic cleansing good in one case and bad in another?
Do Palestines, including many Christians, not have a point when they says that their land was taken from them without consent? Muslim or not, I also would be angry if anyone wants to take my land.
The Palestinian suffering was and is not necessary and it gives bad people like Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden an excuse to attack us, because we (America and Europe) let it persist.

Dear oiznop:

You referred to these Jesuits as "Church leadership". As a Christian who has read the Bible I can safely say they are not leadership in the Body of Christ by the words they speak which is contrary to the Word of God and in opposition thereto. Perhaps leadership in the "Church of Satan", but not the Body of Christ.

The following words of Jesus perhaps are applicable to these Jesuits as well:

John 8:44 "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature; for he is a liar, and the father of lies."

Yes and Satan's creation of Islam does not surprise me for it it a GREAT LIE.

"[...] [T]o combat terrorism effectively [we must] avoid political and military gestures that could appear as actions meant to combat, humiliate, and deride the Islamic peoples."

Translated: Continue to appease them which only makes them angrier and don't stand up to evil but placate it. Of course, a good point is made about not further humiliating and deriding them for they do that well enough themselves.

"...is a serious wound, because the West has appropriated and given to the Jews an Islamic territory that is ‘sacred’ to Allah and belongs to Muslims ‘by divine law’ until the end of time".

Translated: Jesuits don't read the Bible and if they do they don't believe it. They ignore the history of Israel and the promises the TRUE God gave Israel, concerning her return to her bibical lands and Jerusalem which in the endtime God says will be eternally Israels and not the bastardize faith of Islam. Furthermore, they obviously believe this "Allah" is in fact GOD and foolishly believe the lie that "Allah of the Quran" is the same GOD of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, whose name is also Israel. There is nothing sacred or divine about a false god like "Allah".

There will never be true peace in the Middle East, but for a short period of time "thanks" to the anti-Christ, who is empowered by Satan as foretold in the Bible.

I expect these Jesuits to hear something similar to this one day:

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. 22 "Many will say to Me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS."

More appeasement from a Church leadership that has it's head in the sand!.....And while that takes place, the "banner of Jihad" will be raised against the cross and the star of David.....Oh, how can these people be so bloody blind!!!!