Degree of Employment amongst Oslo's Immigrants
From the desk of Filip van Laenen on Sat, 2007-03-10 14:39
On International Women's Day the Norwegian evening newspaper Aftenposten Aften published an interesting article with a graph showing the degree of employment for the immigrants in Oslo, split up by gender and nationality.
The graph doesn't need any further comments, but as a matter of fact it is very consistent with the results of research done by Tyra Ekhaugen two years ago showing a clear link between the number of years an immigrant has lived in Norway, the reason for his stay and his background, and whether or not he was living on public support. In the meantime we're kindly requested to believe that we'll need more immigrants to pay for our retirement pensions.
New vs Settled immigrants
Submitted by reconquista on Sun, 2007-03-11 23:46.
Jordan, something interesting that I noticed from the British figures is that the employment levels among some groups, like Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Somalis, who have lived in Britain since before 1990 aren't much better (and sometimes worse) than those who arrived after 1990.
Look at the graph I posted earlier with data on settled immigrants vs new immigrants.
Employment rates (in Britain):
Pakistanis, recent (arrived since 1990): 44.02%
Pakistanis, settled (arrived before 1990): 43.87%
Bangladeshis, recent (arrived since 1990): 42.75%
Bangladeshis, settled (arrived before 1990): 40.01%
Somalis, recent (arrived since 1990): 12.17%
Somalis, settled (arrived before 1990): 38.02%
I would like to see data on the Norwegian situation with settled immigrants vs recent immigrants to see it it's the same as it is in Britain.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics
Submitted by roughdoggo on Mon, 2007-03-12 02:47.
Perhaps the following information will answer a number of questions raised by all you Sprouts regarding Mr van Laenen's piece.
The Aftenposten table is apparently derived from a recent (6 March 2007) report issued by the Norwegian Directorate of Integration and Diversity (IMDi), dealing with "challenges for women with immigrant background" (IMDi-rapport 3-2007: Kvinner og arbeid - Utfordringer for kvinner med innvandrerbakgrunn). This is available on the Web.
The statistics for ethnic Norwegians are from figure 6 of that report, and those for immigrants from figure 8, at the same place. These stats ultimately derive from the Norwegian Central Statistical Bureau. For some reason - probably because it always has played loose and easy with sources and data, and because it wants to give the impression it has done its own legwork - Aftenposten neglects to say from where they copped the table (although they give the Statistical Bureau its due, in a secondhand fashion).
One figure seems slightly off: 58 % instead of 59% for Serbian and Montenegrin men, in all likelihood because it was wrongly copied by Aftenposten.
The information is for the entire country of Norway as a whole, and not just for Oslo, as was stated by Mr van Laenen. Aftenposten's placement of stats that are actually for Oslo next to the national employment figures table for immigrant groups easily leads to this misunderstanding.
Finally, the numbers apply to individuals of ages 16-74, as is made plain in the captions to the original figures.
Doesn't identify problem
Submitted by Jordan on Sun, 2007-03-11 21:54.
While it is understandable that new immigrants have a far lower employment due to linguistic difficulties, one must be concerned when settled immigrants have not improved their situation.
Unfourtunately, the graph does not provide useful information.
Kapitein
Submitted by Amsterdamsky on Sun, 2007-03-11 12:11.
You assume the Serbs are not muslim which I think is probably false. I am sure Dhimmi Norway would have given asylum preference to these innocent muslim victims over their oppressor christian serb overlords.
Criminal enterprises?
Submitted by sonomaca on Sun, 2007-03-11 21:31.
Just because immigrants aren't officially employed does not mean they are not involved in either the underground economy or in illegal activity. Somehow I doubt that 25-year-old Somali men are sitting around playing backgammon. More likely, they're collecting their checks, and are then off to do something naughty.
Way to go Norway! You will be an Islamic state in about 50 years.
Kapitein
Submitted by Amsterdamsky on Sun, 2007-03-11 12:11.
You assume the Serbs are not muslim which I think is probably false. I am sure Dhimmi Norway would have given asylum preference to these innocent muslim victims over their oppressor christian serb overlords.
Some Surprising Figures
Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Sun, 2007-03-11 04:09.
Although this graph confirms much of what many already suspect, I was surprised by a couple comparisons:
One reason for the poor Iranian showing may be that most are the intelligentsia and their families who fled Iran in 1979; because of the wealth they brought with them, many do not have to work, unlike their fellow co-religionists.
Similar figures in Britain
Submitted by reconquista on Sat, 2007-03-10 17:08.
That looks similar to what the employment rates are in Britain among working age immigrants.
BBC: how immigrant groups perform
Regarding the question by P Morris, I think those numbers for Oslo are probably like the ones for Britain in that they only include people of working age and it doesn't mean that 27% of Norwegian men are unemployed. It may be that some are in college or have retired early.
Norwegian immigrant employment
Submitted by P Morris on Sat, 2007-03-10 16:32.
It would be interesting to know the ages represented by the graph and whether it includes those still in school. For example, is the 27% unemployment among Norwegian men accounted for, in part, by many of them continuing their education? The graph makes it look as if a large part of the Norwegian population, immigrant or not, is unemployed. If it includes young school age children, one would expect the unemployed numbers to be higher in many immigrant groups because they tend to have larger families. Immigration, however, to ensure a workforce large enough to support current workers when they retire is a dangerous course. Even if we assume that they will be employed, there is no assurance that such workers, many of whom come from family-centric cultures, will vote to continue generous state support for retirees.
Some policy makers are so dumb
Submitted by logicalman on Sat, 2007-03-10 16:29.
While the idea behind allowance for more immigration is to get immigrants to work at jobs indigenious people don't want to perform, the safetynet provided by socialist countries soon turn them into rent-seekers. In countries that are not socialist, immigrants need to work. I'm helping a "homeless" technician because the state of California won't give him help usually given to immigrant women with children. He has to sleep in his minivan given to him, in cold winter nights, where he had to run the engine to get some heat. So I lend him an electric blanket with an extension cord to my warehouse electric outlet and give him food money in return for some work that I don't really need to have done. I hope he could find employment soon. The budget for homeless people of the county I live in is $30 million. Yet this good man receives no help, and he is too proud to beg his rich mom for shelter. She actually kicked him out after stiffing him of his labor on remodeling work worthing some $100,000 he did for her expensive house. Life has been so unfair to him he looks forward to dying. He used to be self-employed making big bucks but lost and gave all to his wife and kids when they divorced.