Peter: "How many of those High IQ Jews (say the Nobel-price winners) actually believe in the torah nonsense?"

God only knows...

Question:
How many of those High IQ Jews (say the Nobel-price winners) actually believe in the torah nonsense?

Being Jewish is not having privileges but having more DUTIES. We are just doing our duties this doesn’t translate in to superiority.     

Kapitein Andre , this is Hitech. Don't you see that every nation sees itself as special in some sense - from Chinese, whose word China is "Center of the earth" to Brits who saw themselves as the rulers of the world, to Greeks - to whom everybody was barbarian accept them, to Mongols as a great conquerors, to Muslims -whose Sharia was and is earliest set of religious apartheid laws. Name the nation and I will give you an historical period about that nation when it had felt that it had a right , since it has decided that it is special, to go conquer pillage etc.
On the other hand, Jewish "specialness" does not imply Jewish superiority or privilege, or higher IQ. The Bible repeatedly declares that Jews were not chosen because of some intrinsically positive qualities (Quite often it shows opposite ) but simply because they are descendant of the first ethical monotheist Abraham. That is their single merit.

Based on the belief that "All men are created equal", but that upbringing and culture can have a strong influence on who we become, the concept that Jews demonstrate a higher IQ percentage than other cultures make sense based on the arguments already given. I would dare go further by saying that our heritage impacts our own capabilities and that some cultures are probably born today with more in-grown capability than others due to evolutionary factors linked to the lifestyles of their ancestors. 
 
However, let's admit that we have abandoned the article content.
 
I'd like first to address the idealistic näivity demonstrated by Kapitein Andre in his first comment.  His expectation that a Head of State such as Blair is not bound to address certain issues delicately in order to achieve a long-term result is hopelessly ignorant.  The fact that Blair went as far as to say what he did was correct, but risky.  In order to be able to do anything, he needs the support of the greater black community and, in my opinion, he seems to have said it perfectly.  Good speach writing.
 
It is sad, but true that in many issues involving racial groups we need members of any affected community to take notice that there is a problem before anything can be done about it.  American Indians have a problem with alcoholism.  We can say it all we want, but until Indian leaders recognized this and started to address it, the greater part of their population was never able to comprehend that this "white man's problem" had, in fact, infected their community in a great way.
 
Nonetheless, I suspect Kapitein Andre and I are on the same side of issues more often than not and I'm not picking a fight...at least not yet.  However, reality bites and sometimes we have to suck up and play the political game to achieve things bigger than our egos.  It would help if we not nit-pick on little, insignificant points and, instead, concentrate on the global picture.
 
Incidently, nice post by logicalman...very, well, logical.

Lord, grant me the strength to change the things I can;
the serenity to deal with the things I cannot change;
and the wisdom to know the difference.

logicalman: "IMHO, the Torah (that real Jews study) has tremendousw effects on their IQ because it teaches parents to teach their children. The Torah's teachings are based on sound principles given to them by their Law-Giver. Now judaism's Talmud contains too many man-made laws thus is different in the negative sense from the Torah. Taking care of infants from their birth is known to be good for their intelligence - my kids got perfect SAT scores. Materialistic average American husband and wife both go to work and their kids suffer. Intellectual parents often have bright kids, anywhere in the world, because they know the importance of teaching their kids."
 Exactly. The Jews collectively fostered intellectual development, primarily through childhood literacy (often of religious texts). Conversely, Catholic clerics attempted to maintain a monopoly on reading and writing, which enabled them to: (a) assume positions of power in royal and aristocratic hierarchies, many of whose members were illiterate; and (b) more importantly to dictate religion to the masses, which included the use of Latin as opposed to vernacular tongues. While the monarchies and aristocracy quickly grasped the importance of education, it was the Reformation that caused grass-roots learning to flourish amongst the lower classes.
 
 
Hitech: "What I like about us, that we finally , after 2000 years started to behave like normal people and do some killing, some showing, and most important started to state our rights. Of course, I feel we are not doing this strongly enough, we have a long way to go yet to catch up with others. That is my problem."
 There is a great deal of historical evidence to invalidate these claims; indeed, there are numerous counter-examples to the Shoah in Jewish history. Furthermore, there are supremacists in every ethnic, religious, national, subnational, subracial and racial group.

Peter Van Der Heyden: "1) Are there studies that confirm this cause of the higher IQ for Jews?2) Is this impact genetically driven (People with a higher IQ had an higher chance of surviving and reproducing)?3) And if so, is this genetic evolution not astonishingly rapid given the very short period (in terms of evolution)that Jews live in the Diaspora, or even exist as a seperate group?"
 
Firstly, I was responding to Amsterdamsky; the footnote regarding Jared Diamond was to illustrate that Mr. Diamond was denigrating European history and that his ancestry clearly constituted a conflict of interest with regards to his subject matter. Moreover, I pointed out that the criticisms he levels at European pre-eminence are true for East Asians (which he acknowledges) and more importantly for Jews themselves. Secondly, there are studies that support my argument; thirdly, Jews have maintained relative homogeneity especially in the area of cultural transmission for millennia, allowing for gradual advances in IQ.
 

Amsterdamsky: "If the EU and US can not repatriate criminal immigrants convicted of a felony it is unlikely they will repatriate criminal citizens any time soon.  I am resigned that we are stuck with the ones we already have in the west so we might as well deal with it although I feel strongly that we are under no obligation to let any more in though."
 
It seems to me that minorities in the West will lobby to expand immigration such that indigenous Europeans (and Whites in settler societies) will become minorities e.g. the United States by 2050.
 
Amsterdamsky: "Regarding the high jewish IQ I suspect it is more Jewish Supremacist propaganda.  I challenge anyone to even show me jews are a race.  Matriarchal heredity?  What a bunch of crap. Can you imagine a study stating that Germanic peoples  have the highest IQ?  Of course not.  They have to lump in immigrants etc. and use non-ethnic means of doing the study.  Otherwise we are called Nazis (like you essentially called me) and other names.  Yet I have read numerous propaganda papers touting the high IQ of jews (of course written by jews).  If this is not Jewish Supremacist propaganda then you are very confused.  Again, I challenge anyone to show me that jews are a distinct race and not just a penis mutilation cult."
 
Your posts contain a great deal of vitriol against the Jewish people. Your claims to the contrary notwithstanding, Jews do constitute an ethnic group or a nation, whose membership is derived from both maternal ancestry and religion. Thus, Jews can be compared to other nations (e.g. Greeks) and even races (e.g. Blacks). 
 

For the record I'm not Jew, just a very curious person.

From the percentage of Jews who received Nobel prizes, one may be led to believe they have higher IQ than say muslims. I personally believe that's a fact, and would like to read more stats on the subject. Another supposedly stats say violent crimes are lowest amongst Jews. If that is true, I'd attribute that to the Torah too. BTW I'm a Bible student and therefore know its first five books - the Torah. I also attribute muslims' violent nature to the Quran, or the "abnormal" sexual practice of many Mormons to their church's teachings. The books that those people study are bound to have effects on them, just like my knowledge of the bible influences my behavior.

Just like muslims don't constitute a race, Jews are dominantly defined by their religious affiliation, IMHO. Jews have been dispersed all over the world and their children are called Jews due to their religious affiliation, more than their blood, which is probably heavily mixed by now.

Oh I read a while back that some tribe in Ethiopia have their DNA identify them as more "Jewish" than most, yet they're mostly black.

Can you imagine a study stating that Germanic peoples  have the highest IQ?  Of course not.  They have to lump in immigrants etc. and use non-ethnic means of doing the study.  Otherwise we are called Nazis (like you essentially called me) and other names.  Yet I have read numerous propaganda papers touting the high IQ of jews (of course written by jews).  If this is not Jewish Supremacist propaganda then you are very confused.  Again, I challenge anyone to show me that jews are a distinct race and not just a penis mutilation cult.

IMHO, the Torah (that real Jews study) has tremendousw effects on their IQ because it teaches parents to teach their children. The Torah's teachings are based on sound principles given to them by their Law-Giver. Now judaism's Talmud contains too many man-made laws thus is different in the negative sense from the Torah. Taking care of infants from their birth is known to be good for their intelligence - my kids got perfect SAT scores. Materialistic average American husband and wife both go to work and their kids suffer. Intellectual parents often have bright kids, anywhere in the world, because they know the importance of teaching their kids.

I can't recall exactly a name of the study conducted by Idaho or some university , but they found that Jews on the average had 6 times more people with the genius IQs than any other people in the world, including of any European peoples. They gave explanations to that, which are to long to get into. So the study is the fact, and not a supremacy propaganda. However, as a Jew this fact does not flatter me in any way. What I like about us, that we finally , after 2000 years started to behave like normal people and do some killing, some showing, and most important started to state our rights. Of course, I feel we are not doing this strongly enough, we have a long way to go yet to catch up with others. That is my problem. And what is yours? Can't see straight because of bigotry? Jewish Supremacist propaganda? THAT is a bunch of crap.

If the EU and US can not repatriate criminal immigrants convicted of a felony it is unlikely they will repatriate criminal citizens any time soon.  I am resigned that we are stuck with the ones we already have in the west so we might as well deal with it although I feel strongly that we are under no obligation to let any more in though.  Regarding the high jewish IQ I suspect it is more Jewish Supremacist propaganda.  I challenge anyone to even show me jews are a race.  Matriarchal heredity?  What a bunch of crap.

"He ignores that the Jews have the highest IQ of any particular ethnic group on Earth precisely because of their early fostering of literacy and urbanization which impacted future generations."

1) Are there studies that confirm this cause of the higher IQ for Jews?
2) Is this impact genetically driven (People with a higher IQ had an higher chance of surviving and reproducing) ?
3) And if so, is this genetic evolution not astonishingly rapid given the very short period (in terms of evolution)that Jews live in the Diaspora, or even exist as a seperate group?

This blogger, Old Atlantic, was banned at UK Guardian, Comment is Free for saying that immigration and knife fighting were linked.

Thread at Comment is Free:

Catherine Johnson
Sunday April 8, 2007
The Observer

Out on the streets, the kids are scared too

The first comment left now starts out addressed to Old Atlantic, but there is no Old Atlantic post above it.

quote
mkddi April 8, 2007 5:33 AM

"oldatlantic", why would you pinpoint immigration as the cause of this problem? It has little to do with it.

end quote

Posts that were deleted:

Re: Catherine Johnson “Out on the streets, the kids are scared too”

But what are Blair and the Labour Party actually going to do about it?
 
 

Amsterdamsky: "Can you imagine if George Bush had said this?  I am all for doing whatever it takes to integrate these people into western culture (unless a way can be found to deport them back to Africa) but a honest discussion of things like social and educational values, child nutrition and the persistent IQ gap against "whites" and "orientals" needs to be aired.  Sending them all to church is not going to change anything"
 
If you would prefer the deportation of Africans from Europe, why support their integration? Where there's a will, there's a way. According to leftist academics such as Jared Diamond** who argue that it was sheer accident that Europeans existed in environments that necessitated organizational, economic, scientific and technological development and Africans existed in environments that did not necessitate development much beyond basic agriculture (albeit combined with hunting, gathering and pastoralism). This morally arbitrary advantage enabled Europeans to increase their IQs over generations and engage in socio-political, military, economic and demographic expansion beyond their continent. Some have argued that the question of whether differences between Europeans and Africans are innate or environmental is irrelevant, because the result is the same. Should Africans be held accountable for (in Rawls' opinion) differences that are morally arbitrary? Moreover, should African-Americans be deported as well? Lastly, what does the church have to do with the price of bread?
 
 
**Jared Diamond's book Guns Germs & Steel attempts to discredit European pre-eminence by claiming that it is: (a) accidental, (b) jungle-dwelling tribes in New Guinea are actually more intelligent than European peoples, (c) he is merely countering White supremacist history, and (d) that Europeans and East Asians (equally well-advantaged) are suppressing other peoples. Although Mr. Diamond appears to be a White man rebelling against the academic establishment (which has actually been leftist since the 1960s), Mr. Diamond is in fact a Jewish academic. He ignores that the Jews have the highest IQ of any particular ethnic group on Earth precisely because of their early fostering of literacy and urbanization which impacted future generations. Moreover, he ignores the benefits that Jews have gained by residing in the West, that they possess their own nation-state (which he apparently opposes for Europeans) and that to their Levantine and Arab neighbors, Israelis are European and nowhere near New Guinean. Thus, Mr. Diamond is no less biased than an Afrocentrist scholar, despite his accolades.

Can you imagine if George Bush had said this?  I am all for doing whatever it takes to integrate these people into western culture (unless a way can be found to deport them back to Africa) but a honest discussion of things like social and educational values, child nutrition and the persistent IQ gap against "whites" and "orientals" needs to be aired.  Sending them all to church is not going to change anything.

Tony Blair: "What we are dealing with is not a general social disorder; but specific groups or people who for one reason or another, are deciding not to abide by the same code of conduct as the rest of us."
 
Is this a genuine revelation or is it merely a ploy draw electoral and popular support from the BNP and UKIP? Given that the Labour Party in its past and present incarnations is responsible for this state of affairs, should Blair not cross the floor?
 
Tony Blair: "This came home to me when, at the recent summit I held on knife and gun crime, the black Pastor of a London church said bluntly: when are we going to start saying this is a problem amongst a section of the black community and not, for reasons of political correctness, pretend that this is nothing to do with it. […]"
 
So only after the Blacks place the blame on themselves are White Britons allowed to agree? While Black Britons may begin taking responsibility for their collective issues, Blair will be long dead and buried, and the sun will have burned out before Muslims collectively take responsibility.
 
Tony Blair: "The black community – the vast majority of whom in these communities are decent, law-abiding people horrified at what is happening – need to be mobilised in denunciation of this gang culture that is killing innocent young black kids. But we won’t stop this by pretending it isn’t young black kids doing it."
 
White and other children are suffering due to Black crime as well. Moreover, how does Mr. Blair know what share of the Black population is law-abiding and decent and what is not? This a pathetic nod in the right direction by someone who has actively sought to deconstruct and mongrelize the constituent national communities of the British Isles. If Mr. Blair actually walked the streets of London, perhaps this notion would have dawned on him sooner...