The Secular Utopia
From the desk of The Brussels Journal on Tue, 2007-08-07 11:32
A quote from Jan Kłos in The Journal of Markets & Morality, Vol. 10, Nr. 1
The state should be neither secular nor religious, for these terms refer to human beings in the first place. Once a state declares itself to be an advocate of the secular or the religious, it inevitably slides into totalitarianism. [...] Should a state attempt to "make" people secular or religious, it becomes but a preposterous pretender intent on establishing yet another utopia.
To Monica: Yet Another Scenario?
Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Thu, 2007-08-09 09:57.
Instead of China,INDIA becomes the next Asian juggernaut ("Jagannath"),and with that political and economic power comes the reawakening of the ancient Hindu consciousness.What then?Well,one scenario might be a religious challenge to Islam's claim to its holiest site.
http://www.hinduism.co.za/Kaabaa.htm
A truly frightening prospect for all parties concerned.
Thank-you Atlanticist911 for
Submitted by Monica on Thu, 2007-08-09 02:25.
Thank-you Atlanticist911 for all of those highly informative links!
On The Other Hand...
Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Wed, 2007-08-08 23:01.
On the other hand,would even the Chinese be prepared to contemplate this?
One billion Muslims to turn into suicide bombers if Makkah,Madina are attacked.
http://paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?186376
I very much doubt it.
"One billion Muslims to turn
Submitted by atheling on Thu, 2007-08-09 05:47.
"One billion Muslims to turn into suicide bombers if Makkah,Madina are attacked."
Pakistani hyperbole. If they're anything like the recent bungling in London and Glasgow, it'll just be a case of 1 billion less to deal with.
Related Themes
Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Tue, 2007-08-07 20:05.
Here's an interesting take which manages to string together a number of related themes.
Despite a government stance that hovers somewhere between discouragement and persecution,more than 100 million of them have embraced a faith that regards this life a mere preparation for the next world [...] This is only a first tremor of the earthquake to come [...] Years ago I speculated that if Mecca ever is razed,it will be by an African army marching north,now the greatest danger to Islam is the prospect of a Chinese army marching west.
http://atimes.com/atimes/China/IH07Ad03.html
Title: Christianity finds a fulcrum in Asia.
Neither one nor the other
Submitted by atheling on Tue, 2007-08-07 18:14.
"I consider ethics, as well as religion, as supplements to law in the government of man." --Thomas Jefferson to Augustus B. Woodward, 1824. ME 16:19
"Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath?" --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XVIII, 1782. ME 2:227
Go Kapitein!
Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Tue, 2007-08-07 15:50.
The United States is clearly and deliberately a secular state,in spite of its Christian heritage.
In Reply to Jan Klos
Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Tue, 2007-08-07 15:35.
Jan Klos: "The state should be neither secular nor religious, for these terms refer to human beings in the first place. Once a state declares itself to be an advocate of the secular or the religious, it inevitably slides into totalitarianism. [...] Should a state attempt to 'make' people secular or religious, it becomes but a preposterous pretender intent on establishing yet another utopia."
Mr. Klos appears to be making a major yet strangely common mistake: confusing state atheism, which is anti-religion, with state secularism, which is neutral regarding religion. Given that it separates the civic from the spiritual realm, the United States is clearly and deliberately a secular state, in spite of its Christian heritage. Moreover, it is impossible for a state to be neither secular nor theocratic and yet be religiously neutral. Furthermore, a state enforcing atheism on its citizenry (e.g. former Warsaw Pact states, etc.) is entirely different from a "secular state."
An Inconvenient Truth #2
Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Tue, 2007-08-07 13:43.
Both inconvenient and true is the fact that I screwed up on that weblink.So,here it is again.
http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/ten_commandments.htm
An Inconvenient Truth?
Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Tue, 2007-08-07 13:16.
This debate will run and run...
see: http:rationalrevolution.net/articles/ten_commandments.htm
However,it was President James Madison,4th President of the United States and Chief Architect of the Constitution who said,"We have staked the whole of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government,upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves,to control ourselves,to sustain ourselves according to the Code of Hammurabi".
Well,actually,he didn't.He used the phrase,"according to the Ten Commandments of God",but I suspect that's only a minor,inconvenient truth to many.As for Benjamin Franklin,signatory to the Constitution and The Declaration of Independence,HE said,"How many observe Christ's birth-day! How few,his precepts! O! 'tis easier to keep Holidays than Commandments".But,like I said before,this debate will run and run.
The US Constitution is fair regarding religion
Submitted by Amsterdamsky on Tue, 2007-08-07 12:14.
The US Constitution is fair regarding religion. The "Ten Commandments" do not belong in courthouses or public buildings. Wallpaper your home with this garbage if you want but keep it out of official government. Franklin was truly a visionary and probably my favorite american.