Wordsworth wasn't American,but he still deserved the  honorary mention in your list.
 
see: Wordsworth in American Literary Culture
 
http://www.palgrave.com/products/title.aspx?is=140390133
 
btw enjoying your excellent posts.Welcome to MY world!

Next thing we know you'll be claiming Bob Hope, Charlie Chaplin and even Raymond Chandler.

I think there are people who try to establish something like a "New World Order". No, they probably don't meet in a temple or have a detailed plan for everything. But the direction is clear if you watch what happens in the world. They are in the USA and Europe and they use the UN and the EU. And of course the big companies. (No wonder they don't like nations - without them there is so much independence. Less taxes, less democratic stuff - the weaker nation states are the better.)

I agree with you, but I don't think FRW is blaming America for political correctness at all.

Don't confuse him with Conservative Swede, that's not fair to FRW.

@ FRW

I have compared Conservative Swede with the "Arab Street" because both refuse to take responsibility for 'own' conditions and have a need to scapegoat others.  It would appear that you are a fellow traveller of Conservative Swede, at least as far as scape-goating is concerned.

OK, Wesley Clark is a Clinton appointee and a (moderate) leftist American.  Actually, he is (or was recently) running for the Democratic Party's nomination for the Presidency. He also spent many years in Europe.  So, what does a statement by 1 leftist American mean?  That whatever he believes is an "American" ideology?  You can't be serious!  That is like me putting up a quote from Marc Dutroux and claiming that pedophilia is a "European affliction".

Multiculturalism and political correctness are affecting the whole of western civilisation.  They are essentially 'leftist' ideologies that have become prevalent since Academia, and thus the media, have become dominated by a new naive-left 'orthodoxy'.  They can be found in both Europe and America, but have clearly made more headway in Europe in terms of political power. 

One serious problem in Europe is the tendency to 'label' political opponents viewpoints and then pass laws that criminalise those labels.  In that way freedom of political speech is becoming increasingly threathened in Europe, and hence democracy itself.  This is probably the worst practical effect of "multiculturalism (MC)and political correctness(PC)".  And, even though you appear to be against both MC and PC, you are nevertheless applying the same destructive technique of 'labelling' something in order to avoid selfresponsibility for 'own' conditions.       

By the way, you are a poor 'observer'.  No one here has "criticized Europe for things imported from America".  That is a false strawmen of your imagination.  Some people have critized Europe (rather the person of Conservativbe Swede) for not taking responsibility for its own actions. But then, as I told Conservative Swede, you better get acquanted with anglo-saxon empiricism - factual observations! - and hopefully you will then be less inclined to set up imaginary strawmen (which is an affliction that is quite prevalent among European 'continentals') . 

You do make a good point. Anti National Globalists are irritating cockroaches. But what of it? You think America influences world politics and opinion too much? I think the opposite. I think the E.U. and the U.N. influences world opinion too much. So there.

Try to read again and you'll see the answer. But did the US oppose the developments in Europe or did they support it? Multiculturalism and Political Correctness is not only supported by Marxists but also and much more so by anti-national globalists. Who influences world politics and world opinion? Marxists? Lol.

Wordsworth isn't american. sorry. I meant the other guy. Walt Whitman. Some Romantic guy starting with a W. Whitman, Wordsworth....haha. Sorry about that. How American of me.

Wordsworth?

Politcal Correctness and Multiculturalism are directly rooted in Marxism. Last time I checked, Marx wasn't American.

Wesley Clark is absolutely irrelevant to anything. He's too washed up for even Fox News who got rid of his ridiculous commentary. Now he's slumming it up with MSNBC and George Soros. Quoting anything he said means exactly nothing. I detest Wesley Clark. And what you quoted sounded like it was aimed at pleasing a European audience.

Or do you think he's part of some American Conspiracy? Be honest..... you're not the only one.

And I think Americans heavily crticize America for political correctness, we suffer a great deal from it.

But I'm stunned by the stifling, state-enforced political correctness in Europe, and talk about it, but that has nothing to do with anything imported from America, of that I'm sure. You people did that to yourselves. Or do you blame America for the EU as well? I mean might as well, according to Conservative Swedes, America was behind everything that was bad in the 20th Century as well.

The Brussels Journal should produce more stories about America's role before and after the wars (-> Congress for Cultural Freedom, 1968 "revolutionaries", Green Parties...). The USA is not to be blamed for everything but it's funny that some people criticize Europe for things imported from America. Multiculturalism and Political Correctness are American ideologies.

"There is no place in modern Europe for ethnically pure states. That is a 19th-century idea, and we are trying to transition into the 21st century, and we are going to do it with multi-ethnic states."

Wesley Clark

Conservative Swede: "then under the cultural hegemony of America of the last century the Europeans were constantly told that their state churches were illegitimate. The political heads of our society were cut off, traditional values eroded due to that, the scene was left open for socialists and the kind, we were told that our churches were illegitimate. And now the Americans are surprised that the Europeans left Christianity. The Americans will always be left surprised by the consequences of their actions."

Question to CS:
Which political head of European society do you miss? Mussolini? Franco? Hitler? Stalin? Which one of the European greats held together European Society and Christianity before it was destroyed by American Cultural Hegemony? Are you suggesting all these great leaders came about because did something to European Christianity. What exactly did America do that European Christianity hadn't done to itself for hundreds and hundreds of years. Just what exactly? Was it the blue Jeans? What exactly made European Academia clamour in the streets for more National Socialism, despite the un-Americanized tranquility of European society at the time. Did American success drive the Europeans to suicide, they had no control over their fate? I mean what are you you getting at?

Be more specific.

You're the parody of the insular, brittle, morally-ill society in which you live, to turn your nose up at us simple-minded Americans and then blame us, at the same time, for Europe's self-destruction during the 20thc Century. It's incredible. You share the same pathetic, ignorant pathologies as your occupiers and you'll soon resemble them more and more, as time goes on, not the other way around. Because apparently while no one was looking, America destroyed Swedish society.

Did all of you know that? The CIA must have done it in secrecy. They declared European Christiany "illegitimate" and cut the head off of great European political leaders like Mussolini, destroyed European society, then they made up the holocaust and brazenly tried to suggest that Europe had something to do with WWII to divert attention from the Zionists taking over the Middle East and drinking the blood of Arab babies.
(just joking obviously, I know CS didn't say this)

We Americans aren't sophisticated enough to know real, Euro-history.

"then under the cultural hegemony of America of the last century the Europeans were constantly told that their state churches were illegitimate. The political heads of our society were cut off, traditional values eroded due to that, the scene was left open for socialists and the kind, we were told that our churches were illegitimate. And now the Americans are surprised that the Europeans left Christianity. The Americans will always be left surprised by the consequences of their actions."

That's some historical perspective you have there. Apparently Western Europe spent the last century minding its own business until America stepped in and started criticizing its churches and cutting the political heads off of your society (whatever that means). No really, I'm truly fascinated by this version of history.

Excuse me? Is this what they teach in Sweden? I know you consider yourself very superior, but let me educate you. While your country sat back and and helped supply Hitler's infrastructure, 400,000 Americans died in your continent despite the fact that at that time we were heavily Isolationist and were still tired from the last European-caused disaster, known as WWI, during which yet thousands more Americans died helping prevent Europe annihilate itself (what is it with you people?)

If America knew just how sophisticated you Europeans would turn out to be, we would've turned over the whole shithole of a continent over to the Soviets, trust me. BUT POOR YOU. YOU POOR PEOPLE HAD TO SUFFER UNDER AMERICAN "HEGEMONY".

We told you your churches are illegitimate? Where do you come up with this stuff? You must be an adolescent, because only teenagers have the ability to simultaneously not take any responsability for anything and then have the gall to bite the hand the feeds it. I'm willing to give Europe the credit she deserves for the way she rebuilt herself in the decades after WWII into vibrant productive societies. That achievement is nearly miraculous and should never be forgotten, and although America was necessary to set the conditions for that to happen, Europe deserves all the credit for the stunning achievement it is today after suffering the horror of the massacre of tens of millions of people. I concede that. But it works both ways. Europe is responsabile for itself, little child. I'm actually embarrassed for you if you think European Christianity self-destructed because of anything any American might have said or done. This is such a pathetic view of recent history, I'm actually incredulous. I think this moronic view of history insults Europe as much as it does America.

The only thing American Hegemony did was protect cowards like you from the Soviets and the Fascists, and allowed for an unprecedented peaceful and prosperous number of decades for your social paradises to prosper. Okay, fine, we also opened up some McDonald's. Not the Stasi, I know, but still awful.

To blame the death of Christianity in Europe on America, and not on your own perverted values and European heros like Karl Marx, Heidegger, Nietzsche, and Hitler, that's just utterly pathetic. Not only that, it's sick and very revealing. And if you think you're too smart for this blog, I agree.

Okay fine, I'll go along with it, the decline of Europe isn't Europe's fault, it's America's, didn't you know that? You have to be extra sophisticated and European to erase history and not take any responsability for anything.

Yes, that's right, Conservative Swede. Christianity died in Europe because of America. Good one. Europeans had nothing to do with it. I'm actually fine with that, because the fact that this is what Europeans think of themselves (apparently they are so weak that just coming into contact with America kills off their culture), even ones who call themselves conservative, then there is no chance of survival for you people. None whatsoever. And I'm not delusional, I see America isn't in great shape right now, far from it, but atleast I live in a land where self-reliance, taking responsability for your own fate, and honesty are still taught as virtues. Not seething resentment for the one country generous enough to help rebuild Europe after it destroyed itself and generous enough to protect it with the blood of our sons and daughters to this day.

I have to say it once more, because it's true: PATHETIC.

And one more thing: America has suffered the consequences of its actions (both worldwide hatred but also unprecedented freedom and prosperity). So have England, Germany, and Russia. I don't think Sweden ever has, and it's about time...

Oh, and one more thing Conservative Swede, which political head of European society do you miss? Mussolini? Franco? Hitler? Stalin? Which one of the European greats held together European Christianity before it was destroyed by American Hegemony? You sould be more specific.

Agreed. Outside of Ibiza and Radio One, Western Europeans have a fetish for old Top 40, and sometimes old classic rock tunes that emanate from American military radio stations.

There are so many people who are overly emotional, and possess very small amount of intellectual capacity. Jumping on things entirely based on the pet issues that animates them, not open at all to see things from new perspectives, all stuck in the current superficial shadow theater, lacking historical interest and knowledge. Jumping on some detail of a formulation, twisting into something completely different from the context in which it was written.

It was a pleasure while I had the exchange with you, but now you're gone and I'm left with the BJ commenters, which makes the whole thing into a parody I'm not interested to participate in.

In other words:

"I'm going home now. And I'm taking my toys with me."

When one finds oneself in an indefensible position, it's best to insult everyone, then leave. Much better than being a man and owning up to one's errors.

Frankly, CS, you're a bore. If your winding, nonsensical, monocled blather is any example of Euro-Swede intellectualism, then you deserve your "sunset".

I think the comment "America isn't interesting culturally" is hilarious. It's so typical it's almost sad. But you're right, Conservative Swede, commentary like that reveals how intellectually superior you are compared to us cowboys. We certainly aren't worthy of such high-minded concepts. It takes a brilliant mind to make an ignorant, meaningless, transparently passive-aggressive assertion based on nothing but insulated resentment.

Now, I'm not exactly a big fan of Paris HIlton and Rap Music, but I notice whenever I travel to Europe (which is often, although the only Scandinavian country I've been to is Finland, I'm sorry to say) the only culture Europe seems to have these day is either a complete rip-off from "American Culture," or it's just pathetic, insecurity-driven anti-American, state-sponsored tripe that is just so revealing in its pseudo-intellectual conformity.

America may not be interesting culturally to you, Conservative Swede. But at least there still is an American culture. I'm not ashamed of Hemingway, Fitzgerald, Wordsworth, the Golden Age of Hollywood, Duke Ellington, New York, the Airplane, the iPod, the lightbulb, the internet, medical innovation, and on and on and on (this excercise is pointless). And our brilliant constitution has been in place far longer, and has worked far better than any Euro welfare nanny-state has (granted things were going well for Sweden for a number of decades there, too bad those systems are designed to fail).

Don't get me wrong, I love "European" culture. I go out of my way to see European movies over Hollywood when I get the chance. I love French art, German literature, Italian design. I detest America's current pop culture. But I'm not a self-righteous insulated little whiner, and my eyes are open enough to see that if you want to engage in the ridiculous game of, "my culture is bigger than yours," then Sweden today looks shriveled up and dry. Especially its "culture."

Not that I don't enjoy the occasional drive to Ikea in my Volvo.

O how Scandinavian.No wonder my ancesters left...We will all be laughing when...you wake up to the hangover of a Muslim majority and Sharia law.
 
It would be interesting to hear from an American of Swedish ancestry who can trace his/her family tree back to this:
 
http://www.colonialswedes.org/History/History.html
 
 

"It was a pleasure while I had the exchange with you, but now you're gone and I'm left with the BJ commenters, which makes the whole thing into a parody I'm not interested to participate in."
 
Oh how scandinavian.  No wonder my ancesters left your shithole for the "culturally devoid and shallow" USA.  We will all be laughing when your Nazi gold runs out and you wake up to the hangover of a muslim majority and Sharia law.

I would like to apologise to CS for being superficial and emotional. Me being intelectual dwarf did not not exactly help his cause.

I shall wait for Merovingian Knights to cross the divide between Our and Their World and hope they can help me become a Whining Scandinavian Elitist.

'Here' they said, follow those links and Odin will be very merciful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

http://www.transracialabductees.org/politics/samdolcritique.html ....Mr. SC you may want to read through this one over and over again...

'It was a pleasure while I had the exchange with you'....and once people refused to agree with me, I hate the rest of the world.

Errr, no , it's your crappy postings dissing common reason and bitching about people asking you repeatedly to make a coherent posting supported by an argument.

All this whining helped us gain much better understanding of contemporary Swedish Eunuchs (be it Culturally or Psychologically).

I'm sorry Paul, but the comments section of your site has very low quality. There are so many people who are overly emotional, and possess very small amount of intellectual capacity. Jumping on things entirely based on the pet issues that animates them, not open at all to see things from new perspectives, all stuck in the current superficial shadow theater, lacking historical interest and knowledge. Jumping on some detail of a formulation, twisting into something completely different from the context in which it was written.

It was a pleasure while I had the exchange with you, but now you're gone and I'm left with the BJ commenters, which makes the whole thing into a parody I'm not interested to participate in.

The Brussels Journal

'the essential blog for Swedish teenagers...and other Europeans'

"...the nazi-regime was the only European political body whose heads were cut off by America"

You mean hanged, right? Theo Van Gogh's fans were still sitting at home in 1945.

I never said that Europeans were not responsible for condition Europe and the West is in. I merely described it how it happened. And as usually I do not focus on blame. Searching for blame is a only a way of hampering clear thinking. Anyway, the Europeans are responsible for letting things happen as they did. Compare it to how I always say, e.g. to Fjordman, that it's not the woman who are to blame for the power that feminism holds over us today. Obviously the men are mainly to blame. The men had the power, and could easily have held it, but they let feminism win. Likewise with the West, the Europeans had the power and could easily have held it. But they let America take over. And we could still take our power back, but in order to do so we first have to see clearly the power configuration we live under.

As for the rest Marcfrans is writing... Well, he just doesn't get what I say. Too many emotions blocking his way.

Maybe not to you personally because you don't watch TV at all, or listen to the Top 40 on the local radio, prefer to read free alternative newspapers in Swedish only, and have your groceries delivered to home so you don't have to expose your tender soul to the magazine rack in the supermarket checkout line.

Or maybe it's because deep in your heart you just know that your precious Sweden equals Europe and her values, and Europe is nothing but 15th century Florence, Mozart, Beethoven's rasta haircut, Industrial Revolution, Belgium chocolate (Neuhaus rules), Chamberlain's press conference, and modern Swedish furniture for the impoverished middle classes?
Fat chance. Rose tinted glasses will always remain a preferred choice for the Europeans.

1) It is somewhat disconcerting that The Brussels Journal is seeking quotes from a blogger who (A) has obviously great difficulty in separating facts from opinions, (B) who makes (to say the least) many 'strange' (i.e. unworldly) statements, and who (C) is not above setting up ridiculous strawmen (to 'strengthen' his nonarguments). 

2) Some examples of 'strange' (out of this world) statements by 'Conservative Swede':

-- It is a strange idea... that America is outside of Europe.

-- ....Western culture which started with the Merovingians in the 9th century...

--  America is not interesting culturally...

-- ...the removal of Roman, Greek and Pagan elements reached its highest level, when the development (sic, i.e. of christianity) bounced back onto Europe from America etc...  

Frankly, it is hard to understand how anybody who can write such types of nonsense can be taken seriously.
 

2) It gets worse, when one looks at some of the false strawmen which border on dishonesty.  Some examples: 

-- I did not compare Conservative Swede with "the Arab Street because he (now) claims that "America..now holds the current world order of the western civilization".   Read that nonsensical expression again...."world order of the Western civilization"...and realise what a confused mind we are dealing with here.  No, I compared him to "the Arab Street" because he does not hold Europeans responsible for their own 'condition', and has a need to blame others (Americans, of course, who else!).

-- I did nowhere express any sympathy for an attitude of "power is evil, and weakness is good".  What a ridiculous assertion.  I hold almost the opposite view.  The morality of "power" depends entirely on the purposes behind its use, and weakness is certainly not "good".   No, the charge of anti-Americanism rests entirely on Conservative Swede's apparent need to seek a scapegoat in America for manifest European failings (like European egalitarianism). 

-- Where on earth did I consider the nazi regime as an expression of the European political tradition?  If he can read that in my simple observation that the nazi-regime was the only European political body whose heads were cut off by America, one wonders what else he 'reads' in others texts. 
 

3)  I can agree with Conservative Swede that originally America was an outgrowth from Europe, and that both Europe and America form the main pillars of Western civilization today (but not the only ones).   I further agree that one must take an "historical view" if one wants to better understand the present.  But, I must stronly urge him that he frees himself from a certain excessive 'European' tendency of over-theorizing' (which often leads to meaningless ramblings and often to plain falsehood), and that he makes an effort to acquaint himself better with anglo-saxon empiricism.  Above all, C.S. must try to separate facts from opinions, and be clear not to confuse one with the other.

Actually, the quotes confirm marcfrans' point which partially concedes yours:

"But, he is partially right in one respect. The American Republic's founding was originally based on very different values, embodied in the US Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution, than those of the "old ruling classes of Europe". Those American values were not "egalitarian", but rather individualistic. They emphasized individual FREEDOM, particularly from the state, and NOT individual EQUALITY. The root causes for contemporary European egalitarianism can better be found in PAST behavior of "old European ruling elites" and CURRENT desires for welfare dependency of contemporary European masses."

Atheling,

Your Jefferson quotes exemplify exactly what I am talking about. Thanks for providing them.

"[The European nations] are nations of eternal war. All their energies are expended in the destruction of the labor, property and lives of their people. On our part, never had a people so favorable a chance of trying the opposite system, of peace and fraternity with mankind, and the direction of all our means and faculties to the purpose of improvement instead of destruction." --Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1823. ME 15:436

"The European, are governments of kites over pigeons." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Rutledge, 1787. ME 6:251

"I am convinced that those societies (as the Indians) which live without government, enjoy in their general mass an infinitely greater degree of happiness than those who live under the European governments. Among the former, public opinion is in the place of law, and restrains morals as powerfully as laws ever did anywhere. Among the latter, under pretense of governing, they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep. I do not exaggerate... Experience declares that man is the only animal which devours his own kind; for I can apply no milder term to the governments of Europe, and to the general prey of the rich on the poor." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1787. ME 6:58

It's a strange idea by Marcfrans that America is "outside" of Europe. But this is the non-historical view again. If the world is viewed such as if it was born at WWI, it might seem so. America is not interesting culturally, it's interesting as the European political body in exile that it is. And it's this political body that holds the current world order of the Western civilization. To point out this fact sounds like the "Arab street" to Marcfrans. Well, what can I say, talk about being tone-deaf!

The culture of America is not external to European culture, it's an integrated part and logical following of the development of the Western culture which started with the Merovingians in the 9th century. The development of Christianity went through many steps, starting in the Middle East, then being "processed" through the Roman empire, then encountering the Germanic people, making the Western/Christian culture becoming an amalgam of Jewish, Greek, Roman and Pagan influences. The Protestants broke out from the Catholic Church, enhancing the Jewish aspect of Christianity. Then the puritans and quakers revolted further and formed America which is today the highest political institution of Western Christianity. Then the purification and removal of the Roman, Greek and Pagan elements reached its highest level, when the development bounced back onto Europe from America, the Europeans today being hyper-Christian seculars, the red giant of Christianity.

Why do I call secular liberals hyper-Christians? Well, listen to the arguments they use against Christianity! It's unfettered Christian ethics turned into its most extreme form (the same with the neo-Nazis). This is why I call it the red giant of Christianity, the substance of Christianity is all gone, but the "energy" of the Christian attitude is spreading like never before.

Marcfrans himself provides an example of this "power is evil, weakness is good" attitude. When I point out that America is powerful, I'm saying something bad and anti-American.

Regarding the heads having been cut off of the European political bodies. Let's first establish that so has been done. Then let's read again what I wrote: "And there was a natural collaboration between America and European egalitarians (socialists etc.). Both saw the old ruling classes of Europe as illegitimate and evil. And the heads were cut off the European political bodies, and we never recovered from that."

The clearest example is of course the slaughtering of the Austrian-Hungarian empire in the Versailles peace.

The "head cutting" happened as a result of WWI, the cultural revolution after WWII. Marcfrans mentioning of Nazi regime shows that he hasn't understood a word of what I said. It's laughable to consider the Nazi regime as an expression of the European political tradition, the one that held our continent together up until WWI. The Nazi regime is of course an expression of the red giant phenomenon. The Nazi regime could only appear just because the heads, of the old ruling classes, were cut off of the European political bodies, in the vacuum that it created, and the power balance vacuum that appeared thanks to the disembodiment of Austria-Hungary. But if you think the world was born by WWI, and there is no historical memory or understanding of what happened before, then this cannot be seen of course.

1) It should be obvious that a word like "submission" can have different meanings (in terms of practical behavior) to different people.  And it should also be obvious that for a believer in God, as the source of life and meaning-giver to life, there can be no choice but a willingness (or intention) to "submit" to God.  

Morality means acting in accordance with your true nature, and for a God-believer that (true human) 'nature' resides in God's intention for humans.   The problem then becomes one of human 'interpretation' of God's intention.  Clearly there has been diverse interpretation of that throughout the world and throughout history.  PERHAPS the main distinguishing difference between muslims and christians today (in general terms) is that among the latter (as compared with the former) there is a broader acceptance of respect for the individual's freedom of conscience, i.e. that human "submission" to God must be voluntary and not coerced, or in other words that it is ultimately the individual's responsibility to make his/her interpretation of what "submission" (i.e. acting morally) means in concrete terms.
 
2) 'Conservative Swede' is revealing himself to be severely prejudiced.  Indeed, his apparent need to find causes for Europe's decadence outside Europe itself makes him almost sound like the 'Arab /muslim street' which will not take responsibility for its own 'condition' either.    The only "heads cut off from "European political bodies" by Americans, were the heads of the German nazi-regime.  Any other head-cutting of "European ruling classes" (and replacement by new and different ruling 'classes', mainly trade union bosses) was done by Europeans themselves. 

But, he is partially right in one respect. The American Republic's founding was originally based on very different values, embodied in the US Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution, than those of the "old ruling classes of Europe".  Those American values were not "egalitarian", but rather individualistic.  They emphasized individual FREEDOM, particularly from the state, and NOT individual EQUALITY.   The root causes for contemporary European egalitarianism can better be found in PAST behavior of "old European ruling elites" and CURRENT desires for welfare dependency of contemporary European masses.      

Monica,

As a comparison to Islam, Christianity cannot be described as submission to god.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Christianity does ask us to submit to God. If we are to submit to God, we must obey His commandments and submit to His thoughts and His ways. The submission experience should transform us into the likeness of Jesus Christ Himself.

Now I saw the connection I didn't see in my second comment of this thread.

Americanism and Christianity is based on love. The cultural revolution imposed by America upon Western Europe trained them to love egalitarianism.

Communism and Islam is based on submission to egalitarianism and God respectively.

Here's the connection: In the cases when it's based on submission it requires a political body the keep the people submitting to the belief. When the Soviet empire fell, the people could leave the dogmas. This suggests, as I always said, that we should see this as a war on the Islamic empire, a fallen Islamic empire will change the meaning of Islam.

Paul,

It's different to be in the transmitting or the receiving end.

America was not as severely damaged since the cultural revolution was not imposed upon them but upon Europe, taking the ideals from America (which originally was born in Europe of course). It was the European kind of nationalism that was considered pathological, the American nationalism is of a different kind and was not affected. In the bigger picture the process happened in two steps (known as WWI and WWII). And there was a natural collaboration between America and European egalitarians (socialists etc.). Both saw the old ruling classes of Europe as illegitimate and evil. And the heads where cut off the European political bodies, and we never recovered from that. America was different from the outset and egalitarian by tradition, and their was no amputations made to their political body. Of course they were less damaged.

People without historical view see Wilson and Lenin as opposites, while they are better seen as rivals. Both on the same side, for egalitarianism and against the old ruling classes of Europe.

European anti-Americanism, post Vietnam war, is the teachings of the Americans hitting them back in their heads. Once everything traditional had been purged out of Europe the traditional egalitarianism of America suddenly looked bad and illegitimate when compared to the manufactured egalitarianism of Europe.

America wanted to rid the world of all the evil European empires. Reaching the good by rooting out the evil. But if you kill all the other mafia bosses, in the quest to rid the world of mafia bosses, you will end up as the big mafia boss yourself. Quite to the surprise of the Americans. They only wanted to do what's right and good.

Likewise with Christianity in Europe. America was built by quakers and puritans who left Europe where they felt oppressed by the state churches. Then under the cultural hegemony of America of the last century the Europeans were constantly told that their state churches were illegitimate. The political heads of our society were cut off, traditional values eroded due to that, the scene was left open for socialists and the kind, we were told that our churches were illegitimate. And now the Americans are surprised that the Europeans left Christianity. The Americans will always be left surprised by the consequences of their actions.

@ Conservative Swede
 
Reading you one cannot but wonder if the biggest "curse" for Europeans (even many "conservative" ones) is their incurable and irrational anti-Americanism.  It is the inevitable result of a refusal to take selfresponsibility for Europe's own shortcomings.  You make it appear as if Europeans are a bunch of childeren who were "exposed" to "two version(s) of cultural revolutions", and - being childeren - they did not know better.  

Where on earth do you get this notion that America imposed "love of egalitarianism" on Europeans? After World war 2, America did not "impose" anything.   It removed the nazi regime, it blocked any further advance of Stalin's armies to the west, and let the Europeans decide for themselves how they wanted to organise themselves.    

While it is certainly true that judeo-christian 'tradition' teaches the moral equality of every individual (in the eyes of God), and therefore worthy of 'respect', that is a far cry from "egalitarianism".   After WW2 it didn't take long for Europeans to sooth their inferiority complex with claims of being 'different' from Americans, in the sense of Europeans claiming to be be more 'social' (egalitarian).    Indeed, in large parts of Western Europe the term "anglo-saxon conditions" became an insult and a false synonym for "anti-social".   Even today, it is quite clear that the American ethos, or creed, emphasizes the ideal of equality of chances or OPPORTUNITIES, and hence the emphasis on markets.  By contrast, the European ethos puts more emphasis on the ideal of equality of RESULTS, and hence the emphasis on government interventions.    Needless to say, for those in the know, in both cases the ideals differ considerably from the practice.
 
It is almost 'unreal' to see a "conservative Swede" blame Americans for European egalitarianism!  Frank Lee is going to have a 'fit', and rightly so.  If Europeans "carry suicidal egalitarianism in their hearts", then they got no one else to blame but themselves.   And, for your information, Karl Marx and the Swedish 'social-democratic' establishment were/are Europeans, not Americans.  

What you write about the post WWII period in Europe resembles what Paul Gottfried writes in his book The Strange Death of Marxism, which I reviewed here.
Gottfried, too, blames the American liberal elite for the cultural demise of Western Europe since 1945. I think, however, that America has not been damaged by cultural relativism as severely as Europe, because America's "conservative reserves" (i.e. its attachment to traditional interpretations of Christianity, including the "crusading" fighting spirit) are stronger.

Dear Paul,

Yes, I have many times thought of this as a curse. Many times I have damned this curse. Why me? Why me? Why can't I just be happy and content to "live in the lie"? But other times I thoroughly enjoy my explorations. There are many exciting moments in this kind of search. It's certainly a sword with two edges.

Yes, we become outcasts. But unlike you I cowardly hide behind a pseudonym, which allows for me to live a double life. My sad excuse is that it would be too hard to be an outcast in a country like Sweden. But it is of course hard anywhere. The people as you, who are brave enough to be fully open, are very important for the quest. In a way people like me exploit the land-winnings made possible by people as you.

"Christianity does not ask people to submit to God; it asks them to love God."

When I read this, my first association is the following:

After WWII, Europe was exposed to two version of cultural revolutions. On the Eastern side imposed by the Soviet Union, where they were forced to submit to egalitarianism. In Western Europe the cultural revolution was orchestrated by America, inspired by people as Adorno and books as The Authoritarian Personality. Here people were indoctrinated to love egalitarianism.

Rather to our surprise, after the Cold War ended, we can now see that it was not the Maoist Cultural Revolution, or the one lead by the Soviet Union, that had the most long-lasting and devastating effects. But the one imposed by America upon Western Europe, where the people now carry suicidal egalitarianism in their hearts.

As a parallel to your sentence this might be limping, since it's not for sure that Christianity is more long-lasting than Islam. Possibly because God is an authoritarian entity, and egalitarianism is anti-authoritarian. So love vs. submission might work out differently in such different contexts. Anyway, so forget about such a parallel. I just wrote this since it was my first association.

"Christianity does not ask people to submit to God; it asks them to love God."
True, I might add "and to love one's neighbor". That's the hard part.
 
 

Perhaps it is a kind of a curse. Most people seem to be quite happy and content to "live in the lie," but we, the dissidents, for one reason or another, cannot live but in the truth. It often gets us into trouble and has turned us into outcasts -- into people others are afraid to associate with.

In the Soviet Union and other secularist socialist "paradises" people had to submit to the State, because the latter promised to build an utopia, a heaven on earth. Islam (=Submission) wants people to submit to Allah.
As Ashraf al-Hazouz says: "We Arabs are hypocrites. We know the truth and yet we believe the lies." 

Christianity does not ask people to submit to God; it asks them to love God.

Hi Paul, Dear fellow searcher,

When you juxtapose my description of me and you as a searchers, with my concluding sentence "And I actually do not want to do this, I'm looking for a way out", I strikes me how this is just another search. Looking for a way out of the searching is a search in itself. Or are the two actually the very same search? I start thinking that it is. Whenever I thought I had found a way out, and relax in that, it's just the calm before the storm. It's just the prelude to an intensified period of searching. I just commented upon that in an update to my post you link to above. I can see this pattern in me now.

Anyway I should be ending my period of Kirkegaardian lamentation. In my next incarnation I'll come back as a Roman equestrian.