So, whose cars are being torched? I asked about this during the riots in Paris in 2005, but never really got an answer. Are cars being torched at random or are only those cars torched that are known to be owned by non-Turks or non-Muslims?

The subject is not, should not be, was there a genocide or were there "just" genocidal deportations. The subjects at hand are on the one hand the behavior of youth in Belgium with Turkish roots and on the other the points of view of the present turkish government and president.
Under Kemal Mustafa, the "atatürk", founder of secular Turkey,  the persons most responsible for the genocidal deportations where convicted and sentenced to death. Among them Enver Pasha. Enver Pasha was already killed outside Turkey; in Turkmenistan (part of Russia then) while fighting for a great-Turkey.
Some 10 years ago Enver was reburried in Turkey. The present president of Turkey mr Gül was there when the remains of the Armenian-killer returned and praised some of his qualities....

"modern Turks should face their past. Those who were there when it happened are now either dead or on their death beds. Admit what happened, but don't blame me, I wasn't alive at the time, blame the Ottomans."

A bit too simple. The real issue behind the "Armenian genocide" is the legitimacy of the Turkish territory ! Contemporary Turkey is the result of a de-christianisation of Asia-Minor: they stole the territory of three peoples (Armenians, Arameans, Pontus-Greeks), and spared the Kurds because they were islamic. This de-christianisation was the result of jihad-ideology (no equality for christians) and Turkish nationalism (no mini-state for the Turks), both still alive today.

Turkeys territory is only the result of deportation and genocide, and admitting that would be tesame as admitting that it actually isn't theirs. Don't forget the Kurds are still there, and they will use this to get independence. And a decrease of territory is a bit too much to handle for an islamic Herrenvolk like the Turks.

Another excellent letter from the US Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire Henry Morenthau refutes much of what Barbara Lerner states.{ http://www.armenian-genocide.org/statement_morgrnthau.html }
The fact remains the "genocide occurred under the Ottoman Empire, not under modern day Turkey. There are many nasty things that have occurred in many nations pasts, ex. the inquisition in Spain. Modern day Spaniards admit that the inquisition happened but logically they have no responsibility for it, no one in modern day Spain was alive during the inquisition. This is the same way modern Turks should face their past. Those who were there when it happened are now either dead or on their death beds. Admit what happened, but don't blame me, I wasn't alive at the time, blame the Ottomans. It's only like the genocide in Rwanda or Daurfor that you can blame those still alive.

Report that Ottoman Turkey is seeking to exterminate the Armenian nation, July 16, 1915

Home > Genocide Research > Sample Archival Documents on the Armenian Genocide
Telegram Received.

From Constantinople
Dated July 16, 1915
Recd. July 20, 8:10 AM.

Secretary of State,
Washington.

858, July 16, 1 p.m.
Have you received my 841? Deportation of and excesses against peaceful Armenians is increasing and from harrowing reports of eye witnesses it appears that a campaign of race extermination is in progress under a pretext of reprisal against rebellion.

Protests as well as threats are unavailing and probably incite the Ottoman government to more drastic measures as they are determined to disclaim responsibility for their absolute disregard of capitulations and I believe nothing short of actual force which obviously the United States are not in a position to exert would adequately meet the situation. Suggest you inform belligerent nations and mission boards of this.

AMERICAN AMBASSADOR [Henry Morgenthau],
Constantinople

Yes I read Barbara Lerner's article, and from the Turkish view point there seem to be some valid assertions. Genocide, despite what Bernard Lewis says quite possibly, ethnic cleansing most definitely.

The Brussels police can't commit a crime of racism by busting the Muslims. They were suppressing racists when they were busting the anti-muslim political rally. Isn't that clear now?

They strictly follow the laws of Belgium, without deviation or bias.

And please don't call me cynic.

The Muslims and Muslim fellow-travellers who riot and shout down speakers might well be labelled The Greenshirts.

The EU should demand that the Turks apologize for the Armenian genocide of 1915 as part of the price of admission. This should make them shut up about it.

It's not even clear that pet85022 bothered to read Barbara Lerner's article, for pet85022 doesn't even bother to refute the assertions in the piece. He (or she) and others who have been misled on this issue (as I was too until recently) will also need to come to grips with the fact that the greatest of living Mideast historians, Bernard Lewis, also doesn't count the Armenian massacres as genocide. I don't have the Lewis references at hand, but a good starting point for following up on the Lerner piece would be Guenter Lewy's article in Commentary, December 2005, the opening paragraphs of which are available online at

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm?id=9998  

and which state

"[T]he Armenian case remains controversial in a way that the Holocaust, outside the fevered confines of the Arab world, does not. Like every one of its predecessors since the rise of modern Turkey, the current government in Ankara vehemently rejects the charge of genocide, and has exerted strong diplomatic pressure against any attempt by outsiders to place the events of World War I in a class with Hitler’s Final Solution. In this, the Turks have been seconded not just by pro-Turkish apologists but by a number of respected historians, including, most notably, Bernard Lewis, the dean of American Orientalists and an expert on Turkey."

I am having a problem setting up the links correctly- With the fires in Cal. I've been up for 20 hours.http://www.firstworldwar.com/diaries/armenianmassacers.htm http://www.armenian-genocide.org/statement_morgrnthau.html http://www.armenian-genocide.org/us-7-16-15-text.htmlI think the letters by the
AMERICAN AMBASSADOR [Henry Morgenthau], spell out the situation. 

There are always 2 sides to a story, unfortunately for the moslems they have bad habit of ethnic cleansing.Below are a few links to the Armenian side of the story. http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/brycereport_armenia.htmhttp://www.firstworldwar.com/diaries/armenianmassacres.htmhttp://www.armenian-genocide.org/statement_morgenthau.htmlhttp://www.armenian-genocide.org/us-7-16-15-text.htmlMost historians accept the events that began in 1915 as "genocide". In Turkey, one brave historian has examined Ottoman documentary evidence from the time, and has concluded that there was an Armenian genocide. This historian, Taner Akcam, has been jailed for publishing his findings, under Article 301 of the Turkish penal Code - "insulting Turkishness".Turkey refuses to accept that the Armenian Genocide took place, and expects its allies to collude with its campaigns of lies and disinformation. Perhaps the House of Congress is not the best place to discuss aspects of history, but denying history to placate a petulant ally is undignified. Turkey still wants to join the European Union, even though this institution has already ruled that the Armenian Genocide did take place. The protestations and blackmailing from Turkey's Islamist prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and its president Abdullah Gul should be ignored, or responded to in kind. If Turkey threatens US interests because the US does not officially follow its false propaganda, Turkey should realize that it has far more to lose from a breakdown of relations with its principle NATO ally.

The link I gave in the previous post isn't helpful. Please use the one below to get to Barbara Lerner's article refuting the claim of an Armenian genocide:

 http://tinyurl.com/3ywqvk

1. Actually, the charge of Turkish genocide against the Armenians is inaccurate. Massacres, yes; genocide, no. On this subject, see the well-written article by Barbara Lerner in National Revue Online at:

http://tinyurl.com/471b or
http://preview.tinyurl.com/471b

2. Certainly the Turkish embassy manipulating the rioters in Brussels must know that the Armenian resolution in the U.S. House of Representatives is dead. The Democrats pushing it wilted in the face of intense criticism for having introduced the resolution with the knowledge that it would harm U.S. military efforts in Iraq. 

3. Turkey is dubiously using the PKK terrorist issue as its "Sudetenland" excuse for grabbing Iraqi real estate and, as an incipient ally of Iran, undercutting Iraqi stability. On this, see -- again in National Review Online:

http://tinyurl.com/2246cn or
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2246cn 

- RS 

Turks!?
Are those you are talking about, are they Multi-Religious Turkish Belgium's and Turkish Nationals or are they all Muslims? Makes a Great Difference on where the blame is placed. If the riots are by Multi-Religious Turks, then I would feel a sense of interest. Should all of the Turks being involved were Muslims, then, one should use the term Muslims of Turkish Origin or just "Muslims". For as we know, Muslims are not of any country they occupy. They are First Muslims and lastly, Muslims. Bearing Gifts, " Sharia Law".

This has always been a puzzle about the Euro situation. The gov't won't protect the people, yet they won't allow the people to protect themselves. So, the answer seems to be to limit reporting of the news (lest it gives support to the "right wing extremists"). And also, the gov't will come down hard on any citizens who try to make change happen. Squashing unarmed native citizens is within their abilities. It is the restless imported citizens that cannot be handled. 

The Police can bust up and arrest everyone at a political rally but cannot restore order in a small section of town. How is that possible. Are the police afraid of people who are violent?

Sounds like the police and the local government need to be replaced.

Let's see where this leads to when the conflict in Turkey escalates.. sigh.

Good luck for the people who's cars are damaged!
You know they really need nothing, or shit hits the fan. When will it stop?

This bears repeating (which I also posted in a related thread):

No more water hoses. The police need to pull out the machine guns and exterminate this cancer, i.e. this vermin. Islam is a Satanic evil. It's "prophet" Mohammad is false, barbaric, and a pedophile. Being barbaric, like these adherants to the "Religion of Peace", they are just like their sick prophet. We are at war, not just with "radical Islam", which is redundant, but with a fascist religious and fascist political ideology that is incompatible with the ideals we hold in the west.

There is no coexistent with these people for their desire is to spread their imperialistic sick faith and force it upon all of us. Sharia law is a ticket to slavery. Time we wiped Islam out of the West and off the face of the map. If we do not, they will destroy us.