Our Saviours, the Christian Warriors
From the desk of The Brussels Journal on Thu, 2007-11-29 16:49
A quote from Raymond Ibrahim at FrontPageMag, 29 November 2007
Another depiction ubiquitous to these types of movies is the notion that Christianity, which at one point Beowulf contemptuously calls “the weeping religion of martyrs,” is an effete faith that all “true men” – warriors such as Beowulf – eschewed. […] This in fact is a well entrenched motif, best given intellectual grounding by the many writings of Freidrich Nietzsche, who maintained that Christianity is the religion of the weak, while atheism, paganism, or even “Mohammedanism” – anything, really – is more conducive to the cultivation of manly virtues. […]
But this begs the question: If Christianity was, and is, some sort of un-masculine religion, meant to sap the "aristocratic" class of their manhood and arête – that is, manly virtue and excellence – why then did the ruling warrior class of Europe ever come to accept it in the first place? Why did the warrior emperor Constantine embrace Christianity in the 4th century? Who forced him – the persecuted church and its anchorite fathers? They had no authority; it is only due to Christianity's intrinsic appeal that it spread – to both the people as well as their warrior-leaders. Following Constantine, there have been a number of heroic leaders who chose – not through coercion or any pressing need – to embrace Christianity: such as the Carolingians, including Charles "the Hammer" Martel, who Christian civilization owes no small debt for its existence (battle of Tours 732) and his descendants, most notably Charlemagne. Had these staunch Christians not defended the borders of Christendom from both pagan and Islamic forces, there would be no Western civilization to speak of.
Ugly American Indeed...
Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Sun, 2007-12-02 06:49.
Rob: the brilliance of Christianity is that it allows us to be relatively brutal with our enemies, while still preaching piety among ourselves.
Since when does Christianity condone brutality. Its values have a universal cosmopolitanism, a factor that contributes significantly to its popularity worldwide.
Rob: Maybe it provides a sort of escape valve for moral problems.
? You do not seem to understand Christianity in the least.
Rob: Not many Christian Americans lost sleep over Hiroshima (or would today if we did the same thing to parts of Pakistan).
Killing is un-Christian, even if the victims are non-Christians.
Rob: The great Christian rulers like Charlemagne were among the most brutal against their enemies.
I assume then that the virtue you are singling out is brutality, in which case there are more numerous and severe non-Christian examples. Moreover, the Carolingians, not unlike the Merovingians that preceded them combined Germanic paganism and Christianity in which 'God' was a war god of the variety worshipped before Clovis accepted Catholicism. That Catholicism was alive and well in Gallia before its domination by the Franks, and that the clergy were descended from Roman senatorial families, goes a long way to explain why the French remained Catholic and the Germanic lands embraced the Reformation...
Killing is unChristian
Submitted by Di Montani on Sun, 2007-12-02 07:54.
Murder is unChristian, killing is not. There is a difference...you really need to check-it-out.
What the heck is universal cosmopolitanism?
The Church was built on the blood of the martyrs...and these include the warriors who died for the Faith.
@Di Montani
Submitted by Yitzhak on Sun, 2007-12-02 16:45.
Murder is unChristian, killing is not. There is a difference...you really need to check-it-out.
I am seriously suspecting if you really know anything about Christianity .......I suggest you should read Exodus and Deuteronomy……”Thou shalt not kill” …......
If I know anything about Christiantiy...
Submitted by Di Montani on Tue, 2007-12-04 07:55.
Again, both the Hebrew and the the Greek Septuagint use the terms for killing and for murder in an interchangeable sense. In other words, the translation into English is ambiguous. However, the understanding of these things historically in both the traditional Judaic and Christian sense has been that of clearly making a distinction between the intentional taking of an innocent human life, and the intentional and otherwise UNWANTED taking of a guilty one. You really need to brush-up on these things, with all due respect. And repudiate any so-called teacher or authority figure who might stand in your way of doing so. It is a crucial distinction. It is totally different from the Islamic notion of the taking of innocent life, for instance. For them, the taking of innocent life is not even a question to be considered. It is not even in the equation from the get-go. They need only ask...are they infidels? OK! C'est en assez. Death to infidels. Now, that is a simplicity that rivals yours. Think about it.
@Di Montani
Submitted by Yitzhak on Tue, 2007-12-04 08:56.
I was not trying to lecture you.
Thou Shall not Kill...
Submitted by Di Montani on Tue, 2007-12-04 07:22.
I have already done so. You now need to make the distinction between killing, as in self-defense, or for that matter intentional killing ONLY in the defense of an innocent, such as your daughter when attacked by a brute with the intent to rape and slay...between that of the intentional and calculated murder of an innocent for immediate material and lustful gain. When you have absorbed that distinction...then contact me. Better yet...confess to your priest, for you have made a great error and have equated the taking of an innocent life with that of a guilty one. Neither the Old nor New Testament requires you to turn the other cheek when the life of your innocent NEIGHBOR is at stake. (For as you do, or do not do unto the least of these, you do also unto me.) If you do nothing...you are complicit in murder. You have been successfully deluded if you believe otherwise, and contrition and repentance is in order for you. The mark of a Christian is his/her willingness to confront and face evil in a thoroughly categorical sense. No wishi-washiness. No doubts about it, all death is tragedy...but do not be seduced in equivocalness. The physical annihilation and destruction of legitimate evil is sometimes required. Sorry if that damages your (innovationist) paradigm. Get it right from the start. The Christian World View and Theology acknowledges the existence of evil, and of satan. You cannot be a Christian and deny the existence of evil. Read your Bible...for "Christ came into the world to destroy the works of the devil." You may turn-the-other-cheek when evil is perpetrated toward yourself, but to do so when evil is directed against innocent others, while you do nothing, is to fully partake of the guilt of their murder. The only thing necessary for evil to prevail, is for good men to do nothing. You have imbibed the philosophical garbage that will lead not only to your personal destruction, but to everybody's else's, as well. Granted, all death is tragedy, and all killing is as well, but the intentional murder of innocents is the greatest sin. Do not equivocate. Fight evil, fight it with a righteous hatred...for we are instructed (in the Psalms) to HATE evil, with a righteous hatred. Did Christ ever compromise with satan?
@Yitzhak:
Submitted by atheling on Sun, 2007-12-02 19:50.
"I am seriously suspecting if you really know anything about Christianity .......I suggest you should read Exodus and Deuteronomy……”Thou shalt not kill” …......
I suspect you have not read it yourself:
"Anyone who by violence causes a death must be put to death. If, however, he has not planned to do it but it comes from God by his hand, he can take refuge in a place which I shall appoint for you. But should any peson dare to kill another with deliberate planning, you will take that person even from my altar to be put to death" - Exodus 21:13-14.
There is a difference between killing (manslaughter) and murdering in God's law and man's law.
@Atheling
Submitted by Yitzhak on Mon, 2007-12-03 09:08.
I was referring to Ten Commandments only…….oh and just for your information (Baruch Hashem ב"ה) I don’t have to read translated versions of Exodus & Deuteronomy…..I read original Exodus & Deuteronomy…..
BS, Yitzhak
Submitted by atheling on Mon, 2007-12-03 16:51.
You were not just "referring to Ten Commandments only" because you cited Deuteronomy as well!
How dishonest you are!
@atheling
Submitted by Yitzhak on Tue, 2007-12-04 08:54.
I am not surprised to hear such ignorance from a paranoid bandwagon rider. I don’t know if I should laugh at your absurd accusation or feel pity for your ignorance.
For your enlightenment
Exodus 20:2-17
Deuteronomy 5:6-21
Christian Warriors
Submitted by Di Montani on Sun, 2007-12-02 05:58.
I wrote a small article on this subject about one year ago...as I had become disgusted with the identification of serious Christianity with limp-wristed pacifism. That the Christian churches have succumbed to the Pacifist delusion is just one example of the many recent Christian heresies that have dis-embowled the ancient faith, thus alienating our peoples and effeminating our males. (An empowered and masculinized woman simply fails to engender overall social security when confronted by really bad men. To meet such a challenge, we need lots of really good men. Nothing else will suffice.) This can be shown from a NON-Western, (non-Roman and non-reformed) account of history, as well. One only has to familiarize oneself with Byzantine, Slavic, Nestorian, Armenian, Coptic, and Georgian history to see that Christian Pacifism was never the understanding of manifestly Christian societies when it came to matters that involved the defense of the Historic Faith, the preservation of one's family and country, as well as...the salvation of strangers and neighbors that were oppressed by Godless authorities, such as Islam. Nowadays, America is perhaps the sole embodiment of a Christian-derived Western culture that feels obligated to the sacred responsibility that REQUIRES us to evangelize not only liberty as a nation, but also our Christianity as the one true, catholic, and apostolic faith. This notion of Christian Pacifism is extracted out-of-context from Christian written tradition in the particular, and extended to encompass the universal as a non-violate dogma of the Faith. Though it is, in-fact, nothing of the sort. Gramsci and the Soviets had utilized this one facet of "tweaked" Christian theology in order to de-stabilize the family's adherence to Christian values, thus weakening the Christian society as-a-whole by de-balling it and making it powerless to withstand and defend itself against the onslaught and saturation of Leftist/atheistic/and politicized dogma. BUT, "No greater love has any man, than he who lays down his life for his friend," so said the Lord. Christian warriors are not the nemesis of the Christian Faith, they are the very Essence of the Christian Faith...they are the epitomy of self-emptying sacrifice. The surrendering of everything they have toward the ultimate victory of the "GOOD," which is the Trinitarian God, and the Church of the Living Christ. These "Christian Warriors" are a "type" of Christ. They are martyrs...but, not Islamic martyrs. Islam has given martyrs a very bad name, indeed. An Islamic martyr is energized by satan, as this is evident from the nature of their atrocities which have their explicit justification from the Koran itself. C'est la difference. When the West finally awakens to the sanctity of what they have been handed-down, it will be a glorious New Day. Then, they will not eschew legitimate force in order to defend their peoples and their Christian Religion In fact, they will relish the opportunity to do so, as the existential aspects of the struggle against evil becomes revealed to them through Christian theology as the answer to the eternal question, "Why am I here?" We are here to struggle and fight against evil...specifically against Islamic (satanic) Colonization and Western (Christian) annihilation. Nothing clarifies like clarity. As the Psalmist says: "You shall hate evil with a righteous hatred," "and you shall burn the evil from out-of your midst."
Go: http://coconutwireless.townhall.com/
Marx is the problem
Submitted by BollekeBoy on Fri, 2007-11-30 07:40.
I would argue that drinking too deeply from the cup of Marxism is the primary reason for the collapsed birthrates in the West. As captainchaos points out, in the post war period when monogamy ruled the day there were many large stable families who were practicing Christians as well. The secular socialists (ie Marxists) who populate much of the western world today are practically sterile.
leftie reproduction
Submitted by Armor on Fri, 2007-11-30 14:26.
BollekeBoy said: The secular socialists (ie Marxists) who populate much of the western world today are practically sterile.
I've been thinking about a related problem. I think not all lefties are the same. A few of them are doctrinal lefties, but I think most of them are just soft-headed victims of the destructuration of society.
Destructuration of society is both an unwanted result of "modernization", and a desired result of leftist policies, which tend to worsen any problem.
So, what is the future? Will the destruction of society by the lefties lead to the appearance of even more lefties (even though they do not have children) ? Or will there be a reaction against the lefties? Will leftism only disappear when the Whites become tiny minorities in their own countries?
The Judas Kiss
Submitted by Sceadugengan on Fri, 2007-11-30 02:28.
Our present time christian warriors:
The Judas Kiss
@Judas Kiss
Submitted by atheling on Fri, 2007-11-30 04:06.
Pearls before swine.
@Hal K
Submitted by captainchaos on Fri, 2007-11-30 02:10.
Let us remember that just 50 short years ago the Western world was in the middle of the "baby boom." I just don't think plausible that in the last fifty years men of European descent have undergone some kind of genetic decline in their virility.
I've worked in factories here in America with self-proclaimed "rednecks" and let me assure you their virility and masculinity is very much intact. Anything said to the contrary would not be condusive to one's physical safety.
Studies have shown that when it comes to testosterone levels in the blood blacks rank number one with whites in the middle and Northeast Asians bring up the rear.
Also, its obvious that European men are taller, physically stronger, and more athletic than Arabs.
I think the culprits of declining Western fertility rates are most likely feminist ideology, widely availible contraceptives and abortion, and anti-white brainwashing.
What could be more masculine than the "authoritarian" type personality? I'm not talking about some kind of nut like Hitler but just the good old fashioned 1950's dad who was the head off his house hold and wasn't afraid to lay down the law. But as we all know thanks to the Marxist slugs that crawled out of the "Frankfurt School" this kind of guy is no longer to be thought of as a pillar of society but as a closet Fascist.
The brilliance of Christianity
Submitted by Rob the Ugly American on Fri, 2007-11-30 01:59.
is that it allows us to be relatively brutal with our enemies, while still preaching piety among ourselves. Maybe it provides a sort of escape valve for moral problems. Not many Christian Americans lost sleep over Hiroshima (or would today if we did the same thing to parts of Pakistan). The great Christian rulers like Charlemagne were among the most brutal against their enemies.
Relative merits of Christianity
Submitted by Hal K on Thu, 2007-11-29 21:02.
Just because the time was right for Christianity 2000 years ago doesn't mean it still is today. Perhaps it has run its course. We can't make a definite connection between the intentions of the supporters of Christianity 1500 or 2000 years ago and the outcome in this day and age. When polygamy is allowed, the "alpha" males have more offspring. Polygamy has been outlawed in the Christian world almost since the beginning. This is bound to have genetic consequences over time, both beneficial and detrimental.
Actually, it may be the case that monogamy is preferable to polygamy for societal stability, but this assumes a closed society, which we don't have in the West now due to high levels of immigration. Feminists and liberals in general seem fundamentally conflicted on the subject of manliness. They seek to eliminate it from native-born Westerners, while tolerating and welcoming it when it is exhibited by non-Western immigrants. Perhaps this is more evidence that feminists and liberals ultimately do not know what they want and should not be trusted with the reigns of power.
@Hal K
Submitted by atheling on Thu, 2007-11-29 22:06.
"We can't make a definite connection between the intentions of the supporters of Christianity 1500 or 2000 years ago and the outcome in this day and age."
I'm not sure what you mean by that sentence because you can compare "intentions" 2000 years ago to current "intentions" (if you are referring to the "intentions" of the Christian Church) however to compare "intentions" 2000 years ago to "outcomes" today doesn't make sense to me... can you elaborate, please?
"When polygamy is allowed, the "alpha" males have more offspring. Polygamy has been outlawed in the Christian world almost since the beginning. This is bound to have genetic consequences over time, both beneficial and detrimental."
What genetic "consequences" are you referring to? And to whose detriment? Men's? It can certainly be argued that "polygamy" may benefit the male, but it certainly does not benefit the female. Indeed, polygamy is degrading to women and to the Christian concept of love and marriage... but then of course, a non-Christian male would probably fail to comprehend that.
" it may be the case that monogamy is preferable to polygamy for societal stability, but this assumes a closed society"
Why? Again, please elaborate.
"Feminists and liberals in general seem fundamentally conflicted on the subject of manliness. They seek to eliminate it from native-born Westerners, while tolerating and welcoming it when it is exhibited by non-Western immigrants. Perhaps this is more evidence that feminists and liberals ultimately do not know what they want and should not be trusted with the reigns of power."
I agree.
Reply
Submitted by Hal K on Fri, 2007-11-30 00:45.
"I'm not sure what you mean by that sentence because you can compare "intentions" 2000 years ago to current "intentions""
Here I was saying that just because Christianity was not meant to sap the "aristocratic" class of their manhood that does not mean that this has not turned out to be the long-term consequence (sorry for all the negatives).
"What genetic "consequences" are you referring to?"
Human beings have a natural tendency towards polygamy to a certain extent. This tendency can be suppressed culturally. I am suggesting that the long-term genetic consequence of enforced monogamy might be less desirable males. It does seem like feminists and liberals are pro-polygamy in a subtle sense. They want women to be able to have children out of wedlock and then for the state to pay for the children's upbringing. Also, there is less of a stigma attached to divorce now, which opens the door to "serial polygamy." The feminists and liberals also sometimes like to refer to white guys as being inbred, so I wonder if there is a subtle dissatisfaction with the white male that could have resulted from 1500 years of monogamy.
"Why? Again, please elaborate"
Monogamy is beneficial to society because there are fewer unattached males, who tend to be a destabilizing factor in societies. Let's suppose for the sake of arguments that immigrant males coming from societies where polygamy is allowed, or where it was allowed in the recent past, are more virile in a certain sense. Suddenly we have a situation where the native-born women are attracted to these male immigrants. In the case of immigrants from East Asia, the reverse may be the case. Regardless, one would have to agree that Muslim immigration in Europe is destabilizing European societies politically, and it is not just because Muslim males are more virile (which they may or may not be). Muslims also have higher birthrates, which is destabilizing demographically.
I actually do find this subjects difficult to discuss, being a white male myself. Perhaps the point is that societies that wish to remain monogamous need to explicitly realize that their men may become less masculine over time and restrict immigration from polygamous societies as a precaution. East Asian societies, which are monogamous, are very xenophobic, considering their immigration policies, and this will help keep their societies stable over time.
In Reply to Mr. Ibrahim
Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Thu, 2007-11-29 18:25.
Ibrahim: Following Constantine, there have been a number of heroic leaders who chose – not through coercion or any pressing need – to embrace Christianity: such as the Carolingians, including Charles "the Hammer" Martel, who Christian civilization owes no small debt for its existence (battle of Tours 732) and his descendants, most notably Charlemagne.
Actually it was the preceeding Merovingian dynasty that converted to Christianity after winning the Battle of Tolbiac. Francia was Catholic almost 200 years before Charles Martel's birth...so the above comment is nonsensical.