I reviewed all the posts from Thu, 2008-03-27 22:54 on and nowhere did you call me a moron except in your last post. I realize I crushed your reply to Frank Lee Fri, 2008-03-28 00:58 where you called him a moron and a few other inappropriate terms. As I can see from your post of Sun, 2008-03-30 03:04, YOU have proven me correct again, by calling people names it just shows you can't rationally defend your position, as such I shall ignore you from now on and unless you (doubtfully) have something to say of substance on the subject I would urge others to ignore you also.
Back on track, aside from the EU cowering in fear and a few islamist apologists does any one have any ideas why the arab street is so quiet? Can it be they see that Fitna tells the truth? No, I fear they are planning something sinister.
Yes sir, you crushed them allright. I note your tendency of overusing the word "crush". Very american. Pretty much the same like your retarded president landing on the aircraft carrier and declaring "mission accomplished", lol. Only an american could've done that and you are so stubborn in showing your true colors time and again. What a joke you all are!
You wrote before that we Europeans are the most self-centered bunch you've ever met. Yes, we are towards you guys, because you don't belong in our society. Amongst ourselves we act differently but you couldn't see it because you are an outsider. So each time you visit us, we smile and let you in, cause your dollars still have some value left but that smile means "take a hike".
So, yes, keep on protecting us while we are enjoying the beauty of our continent. You go to war; we stay here and let you fight for us while we go skiing, surfing and enjoying the European nightlife with everything it has to offer, including our feminine women. yeah. come here and protect us from the sand niggers while you are being invaded by mexicans and eastern indians. Spend your tax dollars for our benefit, while your people wait 15 hours in line to an emergency room and are loosing their teeth because of lacking the financial means to pay for dental treatment and are skipping on much needed medical care and tests because are lacking medical insurance. But of course, you don't know all these since you worked for the government, you commie.
Good luck to you, my friend. You need it. Don't bother replying as from now one I will not only be ignoring you, but also this worthless site. How crazy can it be to see advertising to muslim goods and to muslim marriage finders on the BJ site? You guys are insane.
Who is MaitreZ posting such agressive comments with very poor arguments or even no arguments?
A muslim or a dhimmy?
Real european conservatives should keep alive a strong friendship and links with USA...
He's a poodle, achille. He calls another commenter by that name, and proceeds to prove that he is the poodle by ranting about how he can live in a comfy berth by American protection. Isn't that a poodle, by pop definition?
He's probably a dishwasher from Bumf***, France who lost his food handler's card and got his panties in a twist.
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.” – Thomas Paine
I fully agree with you that culture is what really matters, and that the value of any 'ethnicity' derives entirely from the evolving culture (values and/or behavior patterns) that it has produced over the ages.
There seems to be a misperception. Mr Horowitz does NOT "deny any American identity", and I venture to say that he does not deny any European identity either. But he will define those identities in cultural terms, not racial ones, just like he sees the "jewish identity" of Israel as a cultural one and not a racial one. It is ridiculous to think that Horowitz would make a distinction between Israelis on the basis of skin color or any other physical attributes. In the US he is a harsh critic of (leftist) 'multiculturalists', and stresses the need for a common civic culture (based on the US Constitution) as opposed to ethnic 'balkanisation'. This does not exclude the possibility - nor even the desirability - of a number of subcultures to some degree, as long as there is a clear broad adherance to a common civic culture within the state.
There is little doubt that "some jews are in trouble with their own identity", but that applies to many people of all sorts of ethnicities. And it does not apply to Horowitz.
Many jews are in trouble because of their own history.During a long time they had no countries,strangers everywhere and/or citizens of the world.It's not their fault as they didn't choose that but i would criticize some jews for not assuming or not facing the hard historical truth.Many among them became internationalist communists and i criticize them for that.
Anyway one,jew or not,must face reallity of cultures AND ethnicities AND nations considering the relations which exist between those REALLITIES.
If culture is the most important for a particular society no one should try to cancel or ignore history/times and geography/places...
With Israel some jews understand what means geography and history...And i understand that contrary to the anti-zionist left(even jews)
I don't know why you object to what I said about Horowitz-Glazov. I am not a long-time (or even short-time) reader of their website as I am not a masochist. I certainly have an agenda (not hidden at all): I am against immigration, whether it is illegal or "legal". I think most commentators on the BJ site are probably against immigration too. That is why I don't like the idea of referring to the FrontPage website, which supports our displacement and masquerades as a champion of the fight against "islamo-fascism" (as they say). In the real world, the best defense against muslim mischief would be to stop muslim immigration and repatriate muslim immigrants to their own countries.
I didn't have a link to give you, but I just did some research, and here is what I found. It confirms my suspicions that they actively support our genocide. They are doing this by posing as defenders of the West and occupying a political terrain that should be occupied by European/American patriots. And they use their position to call for more immigration, in the name of the conservatives !
1) Here is a reply from Jared Taylor to a criticism of his views by David Horowitz. (September 2002)
" Mr. Horowitz deplores the idea that “we are all prisoners of identity politics,” implying that race and ethnicity are trivial matters we must work to overcome. But if that is so, why does the home page of FrontPageMag carry a perpetual appeal for contributions to “David’s Defense of Israel Campaign”? Why Israel rather than, say, Kurdistan or Tibet or Euskadi or Chechnya? Because Mr. Horowitz is Jewish. His commitment to Israel is an expression of precisely the kind of particularist identity he would deny to me and to other racially-conscious whites. He passionately supports a self-consciously Jewish state but calls it “surrendering to the multicultural miasma” when I work to return to a self-consciously white America. He supports an explicitly ethnic identity for Israel but says American must not be allowed to have one. " source
2) And here is a review by Glazov of Pat Buchanan's book "The Death of the West" (January 2002) aglagla
In this article, Glazov clearly describes how he supports the displacement of the whites and the destruction of our race by racial mixing with Africans. He also describes Buchanan as an ally of the Nazis. Glazov is not the usual conservative. He is a "different" kind of conservative !
That's what make the real difference between some far-right wing anti-jewish and conservatives which want to defend "WESTERN CIVILIZATION".
But i disagree,like Armor,with Horowitz and other multiculturalist jews who deny european and/or american identity...
Think that some jews have a conscious or unconscious agenda as they are in trouble with their own identity
"tell me who planted the flag on Reichstag" The Russians because Churchill and Roosevelt let them, Gen. Patton was 3 weeks ahead of the Russians and could have taken Berlin with a tenth of the Russian casualties in a third the time. "Have you ever heard ogf the Stalingrad battle?" Have you ever heard of spell check or don't you Europeans have that on your computers yet? Can I draw a parallel with D-day, yes, the Americans with 156,000 troops (Less than 15 percent of the American forces coming aboard the ships had ever seen combat) crushed a well intrenched German army (without the Russian winter) in less time than 1million 2 hundred thousand Russians defeated the Germans (actually it was the Italian, Hungarian, and Romanian units that suffered from inferior training, equipment, and morale that collapsed in front of the Russians that caused the German defeat). "Are you still believing that Reagan brought down communism in Europe?" Damn right I am and Gorby admitted it a number of times, we out spent him. "Name a single war that you guys won" Well let us start with the Revolutionary war where we just so happen to have defeated the worlds best army (with some help from the French). Then we can move on to the Mexican - American war and the Spanish - American war. We didn't win WW1 but financially we kept France and England from going bankrupt. Why do you think they wanted all those reparations from the Germans? WW2, yes we did win it (with some help). We did it by out producing everyone. WW2 was won in Detroit and the ship yards and the farms of the US. Russian troops ate American food (thanks to the Murmansk run) at Stalingrad, English troops drove American tanks at El Alamein and on and on. "You start them without having a clue and then let others to finish them off. " You want to name one. I admit politically we lost in Korea and Vietnam, militarily we won both. We crushed the North Koreans and could have done so to the Chinese but politically we were stopped, we crushed the VC and again politically stopped from crushing the North Vietnamese. By calling people names just shows you can't rationally defend your position. "when you live 25 years in the USA like I did, you pretty much become aware more directly than indirectly of these cowboys' ignorance" Well let me put it this way at least we didn't slaughter a generation in WW1 then turn around and do it all over again 20 years later in WW2. Talk about "ignorance". Personally I don't think we are gods gift to mankind, not quite yet. I worked in the US State Dept. for 20 years all over the world, mostly in Europe. Europeans by and large (though not all) are the most ungrateful self centered people on the face of the earth (well the Japanese come close and the Arabs are in a world of their own) if it's not European it does not exist. It's not that we don't like you we just try to ignore you. If it were not for the US nuclear umbrella in the cold war the Europeans would have had to spend hundreds of billions for defense to keep the Russian tanks from rolling over your butts, and your cradle to grave socialism would not exist. As far as this movie is concerned, In the words of Teddy Roosevelt "Give them hell", when the moslems riot over this. Unfortunately you won't, so I can only echo Kapitein Andre's words from 2008-03-28 06:46. It's sad so sad, as I said before, "When are you going to stop cowering in fear from those who adhere to and listen to the musings of tired old men trapped in the 7th century?"
see hillbilly, I was right when I called you a moron. You admitted it yourself when you wrote that you were employed for 20 years in the us state department. can't think of anything lower than that. if there is anything lower than that, let me know so I can update my records.
pet85022: "If it were not for the US nuclear umbrella in the cold war the Europeans would have had to spend hundreds of billions for defense to keep the Russian tanks from rolling over your butts, and your cradle to grave socialism would not exist."
And so there would be no immigration, Europe would still be European, and we would have a bright future.
Even if a majority of USA citizans want to try out Isolationism again - it obviously won't work. The USA being the biggest kid on the block and scapegoat won't be allowed to stay out of the fight.
But what needs to be done now on the ground in Europe to deal with Immigration and Islamificationcan - can only be done by Europeans.
I couldn't agree more that Europe alone needs to deal with their Muslim immigration problem. They need to get their collective heads out of the sand, but, I'm afraid that is asking too much of them. To effectively deal with their slide into dhimmitude they'd have to come to grips with their pervasive pc and multi-culti lefties who got them where they are today. Why challenge that when so many Europeans feed from the public trough and have been blissfully satisfied to destroy what was good about our western culture like free speech, capitalism and moral values.
I'm one of many Americans that feels no pity for Europeans. The only Good Cop left standing is the US. The Muslims and the Russians would devour Europe in a minute if given the chance, too arrogant to acknowledge that, Europeans would rather continue denouncing the US and Israel. How stupid is that.
"The “Islamo-Fascism” Debate - By Jamie Glazov - FrontPageMagazine.com"
I don't like Frontpage Magazine because it is managed by two frauds named David Horowitz and Jamie Glazov who call themselves conservatives and claim to be against "islamofascism". You would expect them to denounce immigration from the third-world. Unfortunately, they want more third-world immigration to white countries (but probably not to Israel) and routinely denounce European opponents of immigration in vicious terms.
Got a link to your statement regarding Frontpage Magazine's attitude toward illegal immigration? Unless you do as a long time reader of Frontpage you are dead wrong and disingenuous.
David Horowitz knows more about the craveness of the left than most of us, he was part of it in the 60's until he saw the light.
Either your reading comprehension is poor or you have an agenda. I'm not letting your comments pass without an objection.
MaitreZ: I think that you [Western Europeans] will speak Arabic several hundreds of years before we do [Eastern Europeans].
Agreed. Slavs have been fighting Muslims for centuries, be they Tatars, Turks or Albanians. Yet London and Washington are determined that Turkey, a long-standing enemy of Europe, be admitted into the European Union, and support Albanians over Serbs and Macedonians. Incredulously, while African, West Asian and South Asian Muslims run riot in England's cities, the only immigrants that the BBC rails against are the Poles - skilled workers that have contributed to the British economy and are now returning back home, unlike the blacks and browns!
We don't even seem to have the will to confront Iran for training and arming and ordering militias who are trying to kill our troops in Iraq. And even stating this basic fact can get a politician in the US in deep trouble, and mocked by our media.
And, oh yeah, we're about to elect our first Muslim born and educated president.
On the same topic, here's a short clip of a talk by Newt Gingrich on how America is losing the war against radical Islam:
I'm sure glad to read from the comments below that Geert did not risk his life in vain and is uniting the West to stand against our common enemy.
Great Britan held off the devil from September 3, 1939 until, finally, FDR was given the political capital on December 7, 1941 by the Japanes and was able to declare war. Without Britain it would have been too late. Without the US, Britain and Europe would have been lost and the US would have been surrounded by shark infested waters.
While Regan did not bring down the Soviet Union alone, he challenged the Soviets and they blinked. Gorbachav has said as much. But again if NATO and especially Britain had not followed his leadership the landscape would look very different today.
And like WWII the US cannot turn to isolationism. We are all in the same boat.
To dam all Europeans citizens or Countries is unjust and unproductive. Look at Denmark. Look at many of the readers and contributers to TBJ.
Yes, it is getting late fast and it is time to wake up and a bit of anger when leading is good for the addreniline and I too am sure that many individuals and some entire peoples will never wake up.
But spewing hatred will buy nothing. Rather standing up like Geert and continuing to work to wake up the majority to act is our only hope.
Wilders: respect!
Also LiveLeak deserves all my support.
This movie makes a very good point: Islam all over the world is mentioned. You see attacks on WTC, Spain, London, .. Their hate against Jews is brought very clear,.. . I mean, it's an international problem. The movie doesn't focus only on The Netherlands.
No country alone has won against communism, nazism, and it will be the same with islamofascism.
Let's all stand at the same side, and forget our others' faults like we made ourselves in the past.
It is necessary.
Mexicans are not a problem. Violent Muslim immigrants in Europe, cowardly so-called intellectuals in Turkey, self-destructive elites in Europe -- these are all problems. And they are problems that the Europeans must try to solve. The American government cannot force European journalists, politicians, and artists to start acting sane. The American government cannot stop the European parliaments from encouraging fundamentalism in European schools and mosques and those immigrant neighborhoods that the Europeans have foolishly built. The parallels that the film drew to 1945 and 1989 are faulty in that this has to be a European effort. America has no leverage over the sorts of domestic European policies that are required to address this. And even if we could assist you, why would you expect us to? As MaitreZ so elequently put out, you in Europe don't give a hoot about us rednecks and scumbags anyway. Your own rhetoric -- "I wish that you American gentlemen would wake up" -- does not constitute a serious, reasoned plea from someone who considers Americans his equal. It is, as usual, a condescendingly phrased put-down. I realize that's a hard habit to break after many, many decades of rudeness and arrogance, but if you are serious about rallying other people to the cause, you might want to consider curbing that impulse.
Congratulations to Geert Wilders for a fine and timely film and to LiveLeak for mounting it.
As an American, I'd like to splash some cold water on Frank Lee's smugness. We have a lot to learn and appreciate from our co-combatants in Europe, and a lot to apologize for insofar as one American administration after the next has held hands with the Saudi ruling princes -- founding sponsors of jihadist fundamentalism -- rather than sending them to the dustbin of history, along with the ruling cliques in Syria and Iran.
We had and still have the power to do that -- but the intelligence and will have been lacking. Rectifying that failing is our foremost task. Until that is done, scolding Europeans is consummate hypocrisy and impotence.
Hey, RS, get real, there are no "co-combatants" in Europe, that's the point or perhaps you've missed years now of European appeasement and groveling with any lame demand by Muslims made upon their lefty elites. That's one of Wilders' points in his film. Or perhaps you've missed that election after election, Europeans aren't voting for a change in that status quo in any significant numbers. Your ignorance is appalling.
Oh, and, just how would we send the Saudis "to the dustbin of history" when half of the US can't stomach sending Saddam there?
Europeans, who refuse to budge from the ridiculous cost of their socialist welfare entitlements and take a risk or even defend themselves as in expecting Americans via NATO to protect them, grovel for gas from Putin, virulently smear with abandon America and Israel are the "smug" idiots.
One cannot but admire Wilders for the stand that he is taking . I do wish that you American gentlemen would wake up .... this is not about you , it is not about re-fighting old battles . Wilders sets this mainly in Holland but it is not only there or even Europe as a whole , it is about Islam worldwide Bali , Indonesia , Australia and Kashmir . Unless we all wake up to the threat that Islam poses there will be more Muslims in the U.S. than Mexicans , you do not notice them until it is too late ( and if you think that Mexicans are a problem , send them to the U.K. and you can have our Muslims ) . Peace brothers .
The film ends by noting that in 1945 Nazism was defeated in Europe and in 1989 Communism was defeated in Europe. Now, it states, the Islamisation of Europe must be defeated. I must hasten to point out that in 1945 Nazism was defeated in Europe BY THE AMERICANS, and the in 1989 Communism was defeated in Europe BY THE AMERICANS (against the wishes of the majority of the European intelligentsia in the latter case). It is therefore silly and pointless to call upon Europeans to defeat a threat to Europe in 2008. And if the Europeans are expecting us Americans to rescue them a third time, they should be advised that I and many, many others like me will dedicate our remaining days to opposing any effort that would require sacrifice on the part of Americans for the benefit of Europe, which is clearly a hopeless cause.
I understand you and i agree as a french when i see our so-called "elites" who has been mostly and strongly linked with the left keeping continuously an antiamerican stance and now leaning to the islamic world sharing anti-americanism , anti-semitism/sionism,anti-western conservatism...
But anyway islamism is a threat for all the "free world" and the war against it will need a strong alliance between all the freedom fighters.And europeans will have to really fight in that war.
PS.: I totally disagree with MaitreZ who looks like the usual average useless european liberal.
Europe and above all France spread the marxist ideology by its academics,"pandits","elites"...whose certain went to teach in US Universities(Sartre,Derrida,Foucault...).
USA led the "cold war"( which was also hot somewhere and sometimes)against USSR and wan.
MaitreZ you should speak in your name ONLY !Thank you!I am european as well
Ache, you should mention that you are western European, not European. You have to remember (if you can as far as 1989) that Europe consists of two main groups: Western and Eastern. Of course I don't speak in your name since you are coming from the West. That means you are a softy liberal compared to us in the East. I think that you will speak Arabic several hundreds of years before we do.
You know what's the big difference between us? You recognized a bunch of sunni muslim savages that live in Kosovo as a nation. You and all European cowards that are dancing the way the US sings. Meanwhile the americans are supplying them with weapons and the Saudis are building them mosques. So much for the Christian Europe. Isn't this the pure definition of hypocrisy my boy?
I have to cut this reply short so I can go to the bathroom and throw up.
Frankie, you are a moron. tell me who planted the flag on Reichstag - the americans? Don't think so. Have you ever heard ogf the Stalingrad battle? can you draw a parallel with the D-day in Normandy?
Are you still believing that Reagan brought down communism in Europe? You are an idiot. No one ever mentions anything about Gorby in your brain-washed country.
get lost. We in Europe don't give a hoot about you incult rednecks. A bunch of big talk pussies that can't walk the talk. Name a single war that you guys won - none. You start them without having a clue and then let others to finish them off. You should be banned, you worthless scumbag.
Costica, when you live 25 years in the USA like I did, you pretty much become aware more directly than indirectly of these cowboys' ignorance that is expressed through a constant European bashing.
They don't like us, period. No matter where you'll go, from Miami to Seattle and from Boston to San Fransicko, forget it. They think that they are God's gift to mankind, they wrote the book in righteousness and the rest of the world is split between liberal/socialist elites and third world inhabitants. I wouldn't say anything if they would be right about it, but boy, are they mistaken.
I'm outta' here.
Frank Lee: "I and many, many others like me will dedicate our remaining days to opposing any effort that would require sacrifice on the part of Americans for the benefit of Europe"
As the whites become a minority in the USA, I think the new "Americans" will be even more averse than Frank Lee to any military involvement in Europe. In the future, the US President may no longer be allowed by American voters to play world sheriff. If nevertheless the White House decides to get involved in the next European civil wars, it will be on the muslims (and Jews) side.
If Americans want to help us, they should do so by setting an example and stopping all muslim immigration. (And while you are at it, please stop all immigration, even non-muslim).
1c: "perhaps you've missed years now of European appeasement and groveling with any lame demand by Muslims made upon their lefty elites."
I think the real problem is the continuing policy of mass immigration. It has nothing to do with appeasement of the muslims. It looks more like appeasement of the European extreme left.
Armor, the percentage of Muslims in the US compared to the EU is very small and of that % a large number are Arab Christians. There is no comparison. Americans have spoken with a loud voice not missed by our politicans that we want our southern border secured and illegals dealt with. Sorry, but, there is no European take-it-to-the-streets equivalent, just passive silence and stupid election outcomes based on keeping their pathetic entitlements intact.
Americans aren't going to lift a finger to save Europeans from another of their historically self-imposed nightmares this time, any goodwill has long been spent.
I'll repeat what I said earlier, the Dutch sheeple deserve their dhimmitude. Geert Wilders, Hirsi Ali, Theo van Gogh deserved better.
Actually, Wilders' film encapsulates just a small amount of the rot and violence that infests that miserable and dangerous 7th century cult.
My guess, Dutch dhimmis will simply pause for a second and then continue mindlessly grazing with their vacuous heads down into the oblivion they so richly deserve. Sorry to sound so harsh, but, I have zero respect for the Dutch as a whole. They've piddled away decent western values with their moral decadence.
@MaitreZ 3
Submitted by pet85022 on Sun, 2008-03-30 03:35.
I reviewed all the posts from Thu, 2008-03-27 22:54 on and nowhere did you call me a moron except in your last post. I realize I crushed your reply to Frank Lee Fri, 2008-03-28 00:58 where you called him a moron and a few other inappropriate terms. As I can see from your post of Sun, 2008-03-30 03:04, YOU have proven me correct again, by calling people names it just shows you can't rationally defend your position, as such I shall ignore you from now on and unless you (doubtfully) have something to say of substance on the subject I would urge others to ignore you also.
Back on track, aside from the EU cowering in fear and a few islamist apologists does any one have any ideas why the arab street is so quiet? Can it be they see that Fitna tells the truth? No, I fear they are planning something sinister.
@poodle85022
Submitted by MaitreZ on Sun, 2008-03-30 16:38.
Yes sir, you crushed them allright. I note your tendency of overusing the word "crush". Very american. Pretty much the same like your retarded president landing on the aircraft carrier and declaring "mission accomplished", lol. Only an american could've done that and you are so stubborn in showing your true colors time and again. What a joke you all are!
You wrote before that we Europeans are the most self-centered bunch you've ever met. Yes, we are towards you guys, because you don't belong in our society. Amongst ourselves we act differently but you couldn't see it because you are an outsider. So each time you visit us, we smile and let you in, cause your dollars still have some value left but that smile means "take a hike".
So, yes, keep on protecting us while we are enjoying the beauty of our continent. You go to war; we stay here and let you fight for us while we go skiing, surfing and enjoying the European nightlife with everything it has to offer, including our feminine women. yeah. come here and protect us from the sand niggers while you are being invaded by mexicans and eastern indians. Spend your tax dollars for our benefit, while your people wait 15 hours in line to an emergency room and are loosing their teeth because of lacking the financial means to pay for dental treatment and are skipping on much needed medical care and tests because are lacking medical insurance. But of course, you don't know all these since you worked for the government, you commie.
Good luck to you, my friend. You need it. Don't bother replying as from now one I will not only be ignoring you, but also this worthless site. How crazy can it be to see advertising to muslim goods and to muslim marriage finders on the BJ site? You guys are insane.
Who is MaitreZ?
Submitted by achille on Sun, 2008-03-30 21:57.
Who is MaitreZ posting such agressive comments with very poor arguments or even no arguments?
A muslim or a dhimmy?
Real european conservatives should keep alive a strong friendship and links with USA...
A Poodle...
Submitted by atheling on Sun, 2008-03-30 22:57.
He's a poodle, achille. He calls another commenter by that name, and proceeds to prove that he is the poodle by ranting about how he can live in a comfy berth by American protection. Isn't that a poodle, by pop definition?
He's probably a dishwasher from Bumf***, France who lost his food handler's card and got his panties in a twist.
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.” – Thomas Paine
Cultures
Submitted by marcfrans on Sat, 2008-03-29 23:02.
@ Achille
I fully agree with you that culture is what really matters, and that the value of any 'ethnicity' derives entirely from the evolving culture (values and/or behavior patterns) that it has produced over the ages.
There seems to be a misperception. Mr Horowitz does NOT "deny any American identity", and I venture to say that he does not deny any European identity either. But he will define those identities in cultural terms, not racial ones, just like he sees the "jewish identity" of Israel as a cultural one and not a racial one. It is ridiculous to think that Horowitz would make a distinction between Israelis on the basis of skin color or any other physical attributes. In the US he is a harsh critic of (leftist) 'multiculturalists', and stresses the need for a common civic culture (based on the US Constitution) as opposed to ethnic 'balkanisation'. This does not exclude the possibility - nor even the desirability - of a number of subcultures to some degree, as long as there is a clear broad adherance to a common civic culture within the state.
There is little doubt that "some jews are in trouble with their own identity", but that applies to many people of all sorts of ethnicities. And it does not apply to Horowitz.
Cultures and ethnicities
Submitted by achille on Sun, 2008-03-30 09:34.
marcfrans
Many jews are in trouble because of their own history.During a long time they had no countries,strangers everywhere and/or citizens of the world.It's not their fault as they didn't choose that but i would criticize some jews for not assuming or not facing the hard historical truth.Many among them became internationalist communists and i criticize them for that.
Anyway one,jew or not,must face reallity of cultures AND ethnicities AND nations considering the relations which exist between those REALLITIES.
If culture is the most important for a particular society no one should try to cancel or ignore history/times and geography/places...
With Israel some jews understand what means geography and history...And i understand that contrary to the anti-zionist left(even jews)
Glazov & Horowitz
Submitted by Armor on Sat, 2008-03-29 14:23.
@onecent
I don't know why you object to what I said about Horowitz-Glazov. I am not a long-time (or even short-time) reader of their website as I am not a masochist. I certainly have an agenda (not hidden at all): I am against immigration, whether it is illegal or "legal". I think most commentators on the BJ site are probably against immigration too. That is why I don't like the idea of referring to the FrontPage website, which supports our displacement and masquerades as a champion of the fight against "islamo-fascism" (as they say). In the real world, the best defense against muslim mischief would be to stop muslim immigration and repatriate muslim immigrants to their own countries.
I didn't have a link to give you, but I just did some research, and here is what I found. It confirms my suspicions that they actively support our genocide. They are doing this by posing as defenders of the West and occupying a political terrain that should be occupied by European/American patriots. And they use their position to call for more immigration, in the name of the conservatives !
1) Here is a reply from Jared Taylor to a criticism of his views by David Horowitz. (September 2002)
" Mr. Horowitz deplores the idea that “we are all prisoners of identity politics,” implying that race and ethnicity are trivial matters we must work to overcome. But if that is so, why does the home page of FrontPageMag carry a perpetual appeal for contributions to “David’s Defense of Israel Campaign”? Why Israel rather than, say, Kurdistan or Tibet or Euskadi or Chechnya? Because Mr. Horowitz is Jewish. His commitment to Israel is an expression of precisely the kind of particularist identity he would deny to me and to other racially-conscious whites. He passionately supports a self-consciously Jewish state but calls it “surrendering to the multicultural miasma” when I work to return to a self-consciously white America. He supports an explicitly ethnic identity for Israel but says American must not be allowed to have one. " source
2) And here is a review by Glazov of Pat Buchanan's book "The Death of the West" (January 2002)
aglagla
In this article, Glazov clearly describes how he supports the displacement of the whites and the destruction of our race by racial mixing with Africans. He also describes Buchanan as an ally of the Nazis. Glazov is not the usual conservative. He is a "different" kind of conservative !
Cultures matter more than ethnicity
Submitted by achille on Sat, 2008-03-29 20:41.
That's what make the real difference between some far-right wing anti-jewish and conservatives which want to defend "WESTERN CIVILIZATION".
But i disagree,like Armor,with Horowitz and other multiculturalist jews who deny european and/or american identity...
Think that some jews have a conscious or unconscious agenda as they are in trouble with their own identity
I agree with Frank
Submitted by Vincep1974 on Fri, 2008-03-28 21:04.
As an American I say to Europeans.. you're on your own. Enjoy your EUtopia while you can.
@MaitreZ 2
Submitted by pet85022 on Fri, 2008-03-28 08:27.
"tell me who planted the flag on Reichstag" The Russians because Churchill and Roosevelt let them, Gen. Patton was 3 weeks ahead of the Russians and could have taken Berlin with a tenth of the Russian casualties in a third the time.
"Have you ever heard ogf the Stalingrad battle?" Have you ever heard of spell check or don't you Europeans have that on your computers yet? Can I draw a parallel with D-day, yes, the Americans with 156,000 troops (Less than 15 percent of the American forces coming aboard the ships had ever seen combat) crushed a well intrenched German army (without the Russian winter) in less time than 1million 2 hundred thousand Russians defeated the Germans (actually it was the Italian, Hungarian, and Romanian units that suffered from inferior training, equipment, and morale that collapsed in front of the Russians that caused the German defeat).
"Are you still believing that Reagan brought down communism in Europe?" Damn right I am and Gorby admitted it a number of times, we out spent him. "Name a single war that you guys won" Well let us start with the Revolutionary war where we just so happen to have defeated the worlds best army (with some help from the French). Then we can move on to the Mexican - American war and the Spanish - American war. We didn't win WW1 but financially we kept France and England from going bankrupt. Why do you think they wanted all those reparations from the Germans? WW2, yes we did win it (with some help). We did it by out producing everyone. WW2 was won in Detroit and the ship yards and the farms of the US. Russian troops ate American food (thanks to the Murmansk run) at Stalingrad, English troops drove American tanks at El Alamein and on and on. "You start them without having a clue and then let others to finish them off. " You want to name one. I admit politically we lost in Korea and Vietnam, militarily we won both. We crushed the North Koreans and could have done so to the Chinese but politically we were stopped, we crushed the VC and again politically stopped from crushing the North Vietnamese.
By calling people names just shows you can't rationally defend your position. "when you live 25 years in the USA like I did, you pretty much become aware more directly than indirectly of these cowboys' ignorance" Well let me put it this way at least we didn't slaughter a generation in WW1 then turn around and do it all over again 20 years later in WW2. Talk about "ignorance". Personally I don't think we are gods gift to mankind, not quite yet. I worked in the US State Dept. for 20 years all over the world, mostly in Europe. Europeans by and large (though not all) are the most ungrateful self centered people on the face of the earth (well the Japanese come close and the Arabs are in a world of their own) if it's not European it does not exist. It's not that we don't like you we just try to ignore you. If it were not for the US nuclear umbrella in the cold war the Europeans would have had to spend hundreds of billions for defense to keep the Russian tanks from rolling over your butts, and your cradle to grave socialism would not exist. As far as this movie is concerned, In the words of Teddy Roosevelt "Give them hell", when the moslems riot over this. Unfortunately you won't, so I can only echo Kapitein Andre's words from 2008-03-28 06:46. It's sad so sad, as I said before, "When are you going to stop cowering in fear from those who adhere to and listen to the musings of tired old men trapped in the 7th century?"
@dog85022
Submitted by MaitreZ on Sun, 2008-03-30 02:04.
see hillbilly, I was right when I called you a moron. You admitted it yourself when you wrote that you were employed for 20 years in the us state department. can't think of anything lower than that. if there is anything lower than that, let me know so I can update my records.
If it were not for the US
Submitted by Armor on Fri, 2008-03-28 12:51.
pet85022: "If it were not for the US nuclear umbrella in the cold war the Europeans would have had to spend hundreds of billions for defense to keep the Russian tanks from rolling over your butts, and your cradle to grave socialism would not exist."
And so there would be no immigration, Europe would still be European, and we would have a bright future.
RE: if it were not for the US
Submitted by ScanAmMan on Fri, 2008-03-28 15:17.
The only point worth ceding is that the US acted as an enabler vis a vis Europe in the post war period.
One will need more than tea leaves to crystal ball how Europe and the world wouuld look today - absent that policy
USA Role in Islalmification of Europe
Submitted by ScanAmMan on Fri, 2008-03-28 15:27.
Even if a majority of USA citizans want to try out Isolationism again - it obviously won't work. The USA being the biggest kid on the block and scapegoat won't be allowed to stay out of the fight.
But what needs to be done now on the ground in Europe to deal with Immigration and Islamificationcan - can only be done by Europeans.
@ScanAmMan
Submitted by onecent on Fri, 2008-03-28 16:51.
I couldn't agree more that Europe alone needs to deal with their Muslim immigration problem. They need to get their collective heads out of the sand, but, I'm afraid that is asking too much of them. To effectively deal with their slide into dhimmitude they'd have to come to grips with their pervasive pc and multi-culti lefties who got them where they are today. Why challenge that when so many Europeans feed from the public trough and have been blissfully satisfied to destroy what was good about our western culture like free speech, capitalism and moral values.
I'm one of many Americans that feels no pity for Europeans. The only Good Cop left standing is the US. The Muslims and the Russians would devour Europe in a minute if given the chance, too arrogant to acknowledge that, Europeans would rather continue denouncing the US and Israel. How stupid is that.
On Topic
Submitted by ScanAmMan on Fri, 2008-03-28 15:35.
The Wilder Thesis is debated at:
The “Islamo-Fascism” Debate
By Jamie Glazov
FrontPageMagazine.com | Friday, February 08, 2008
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=D66B9FE5-21A4-4828-A...
Participants are:
Christopher Hitchens, Robert Spencer, Bruce Teft, Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, Donna Hughes and Thomas Haidon
The question is Islamo-Facisism just a wrong turn by a "few" and can Islam be reformed is if not hotly debated, certainly contentiously.
IMHO worth reading if you havn't already done so and even if you already have your answer.
Jamie Glazov
Submitted by Armor on Fri, 2008-03-28 23:30.
"The “Islamo-Fascism” Debate - By Jamie Glazov - FrontPageMagazine.com"
I don't like Frontpage Magazine because it is managed by two frauds named David Horowitz and Jamie Glazov who call themselves conservatives and claim to be against "islamofascism". You would expect them to denounce immigration from the third-world. Unfortunately, they want more third-world immigration to white countries (but probably not to Israel) and routinely denounce European opponents of immigration in vicious terms.
@Armor
Submitted by onecent on Sat, 2008-03-29 02:25.
Got a link to your statement regarding Frontpage Magazine's attitude toward illegal immigration? Unless you do as a long time reader of Frontpage you are dead wrong and disingenuous.
David Horowitz knows more about the craveness of the left than most of us, he was part of it in the 60's until he saw the light.
Either your reading comprehension is poor or you have an agenda. I'm not letting your comments pass without an objection.
@MaitreZ
Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Fri, 2008-03-28 06:46.
MaitreZ: I think that you [Western Europeans] will speak Arabic several hundreds of years before we do [Eastern Europeans].
Agreed. Slavs have been fighting Muslims for centuries, be they Tatars, Turks or Albanians. Yet London and Washington are determined that Turkey, a long-standing enemy of Europe, be admitted into the European Union, and support Albanians over Serbs and Macedonians. Incredulously, while African, West Asian and South Asian Muslims run riot in England's cities, the only immigrants that the BBC rails against are the Poles - skilled workers that have contributed to the British economy and are now returning back home, unlike the blacks and browns!
Thank you Geert, The movie
Submitted by Raymond on Fri, 2008-03-28 06:34.
Thank you Geert,
The movie is to the point.
Theres is room for two movies more, The publishing of Fitna the movie and Muslim reaction to Fitna.
-- Raymond
WORTH THE WAIT
Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Fri, 2008-03-28 05:46.
To those who are about to die (Wilders & the Scarlett Pimpernel) I salute you!
@onecent
Submitted by RS on Fri, 2008-03-28 05:37.
"Hey, RS, get real, there are no 'co-combatants' in Europe..."
You're too much, onecent. Who publishes the blog you are presently reading? Who made the jihadist film we are commenting on?
If these folks aren't co-combatants, there aren't any on either side of the water.
I wouldn't expect much help from America
Submitted by Rob the Ugly American on Fri, 2008-03-28 04:16.
We don't even seem to have the will to confront Iran for training and arming and ordering militias who are trying to kill our troops in Iraq. And even stating this basic fact can get a politician in the US in deep trouble, and mocked by our media.
And, oh yeah, we're about to elect our first Muslim born and educated president.
On the same topic, here's a short clip of a talk by Newt Gingrich on how America is losing the war against radical Islam:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/03/deeply-worried.html
Obama as President
Submitted by Seattle Man on Fri, 2008-03-28 16:16.
I sure hope you are correct, Rob the Ugly American.
Frankee Lee and Maitre Z, don't have a clue, about what to do
Submitted by ScanAmMan on Fri, 2008-03-28 02:21.
I'm sure glad to read from the comments below that Geert did not risk his life in vain and is uniting the West to stand against our common enemy.
Great Britan held off the devil from September 3, 1939 until, finally, FDR was given the political capital on December 7, 1941 by the Japanes and was able to declare war. Without Britain it would have been too late. Without the US, Britain and Europe would have been lost and the US would have been surrounded by shark infested waters.
While Regan did not bring down the Soviet Union alone, he challenged the Soviets and they blinked. Gorbachav has said as much. But again if NATO and especially Britain had not followed his leadership the landscape would look very different today.
And like WWII the US cannot turn to isolationism. We are all in the same boat.
To dam all Europeans citizens or Countries is unjust and unproductive. Look at Denmark. Look at many of the readers and contributers to TBJ.
Yes, it is getting late fast and it is time to wake up and a bit of anger when leading is good for the addreniline and I too am sure that many individuals and some entire peoples will never wake up.
But spewing hatred will buy nothing. Rather standing up like Geert and continuing to work to wake up the majority to act is our only hope.
finally
Submitted by Citizen Z on Fri, 2008-03-28 02:03.
Wilders: respect!
Also LiveLeak deserves all my support.
This movie makes a very good point: Islam all over the world is mentioned. You see attacks on WTC, Spain, London, .. Their hate against Jews is brought very clear,.. . I mean, it's an international problem. The movie doesn't focus only on The Netherlands.
No country alone has won against communism, nazism, and it will be the same with islamofascism.
Let's all stand at the same side, and forget our others' faults like we made ourselves in the past.
It is necessary.
I'm glad they went and released this in spite of the threats
Submitted by reconquista on Fri, 2008-03-28 01:28.
Here's a link to a wmv copy of the video:
Fitna (English).wmv
It has the liveleak logo on it.
I don't think a version has been released yet without the logo.
@ THE DOCTOR
Submitted by Frank Lee on Fri, 2008-03-28 01:17.
Mexicans are not a problem. Violent Muslim immigrants in Europe, cowardly so-called intellectuals in Turkey, self-destructive elites in Europe -- these are all problems. And they are problems that the Europeans must try to solve. The American government cannot force European journalists, politicians, and artists to start acting sane. The American government cannot stop the European parliaments from encouraging fundamentalism in European schools and mosques and those immigrant neighborhoods that the Europeans have foolishly built. The parallels that the film drew to 1945 and 1989 are faulty in that this has to be a European effort. America has no leverage over the sorts of domestic European policies that are required to address this. And even if we could assist you, why would you expect us to? As MaitreZ so elequently put out, you in Europe don't give a hoot about us rednecks and scumbags anyway. Your own rhetoric -- "I wish that you American gentlemen would wake up" -- does not constitute a serious, reasoned plea from someone who considers Americans his equal. It is, as usual, a condescendingly phrased put-down. I realize that's a hard habit to break after many, many decades of rudeness and arrogance, but if you are serious about rallying other people to the cause, you might want to consider curbing that impulse.
Congratulations
Submitted by RS on Fri, 2008-03-28 01:01.
Congratulations to Geert Wilders for a fine and timely film and to LiveLeak for mounting it.
As an American, I'd like to splash some cold water on Frank Lee's smugness. We have a lot to learn and appreciate from our co-combatants in Europe, and a lot to apologize for insofar as one American administration after the next has held hands with the Saudi ruling princes -- founding sponsors of jihadist fundamentalism -- rather than sending them to the dustbin of history, along with the ruling cliques in Syria and Iran.
We had and still have the power to do that -- but the intelligence and will have been lacking. Rectifying that failing is our foremost task. Until that is done, scolding Europeans is consummate hypocrisy and impotence.
RS
@RS
Submitted by onecent on Fri, 2008-03-28 01:35.
Hey, RS, get real, there are no "co-combatants" in Europe, that's the point or perhaps you've missed years now of European appeasement and groveling with any lame demand by Muslims made upon their lefty elites. That's one of Wilders' points in his film. Or perhaps you've missed that election after election, Europeans aren't voting for a change in that status quo in any significant numbers. Your ignorance is appalling.
Oh, and, just how would we send the Saudis "to the dustbin of history" when half of the US can't stomach sending Saddam there?
Europeans, who refuse to budge from the ridiculous cost of their socialist welfare entitlements and take a risk or even defend themselves as in expecting Americans via NATO to protect them, grovel for gas from Putin, virulently smear with abandon America and Israel are the "smug" idiots.
WOW !!
Submitted by THE DOCTOR on Fri, 2008-03-28 00:31.
One cannot but admire Wilders for the stand that he is taking . I do wish that you American gentlemen would wake up .... this is not about you , it is not about re-fighting old battles . Wilders sets this mainly in Holland but it is not only there or even Europe as a whole , it is about Islam worldwide Bali , Indonesia , Australia and Kashmir . Unless we all wake up to the threat that Islam poses there will be more Muslims in the U.S. than Mexicans , you do not notice them until it is too late ( and if you think that Mexicans are a problem , send them to the U.K. and you can have our Muslims ) . Peace brothers .
@ Achille
Submitted by Frank Lee on Fri, 2008-03-28 00:11.
I agree that "Europeans will have to really fight in that war." But, I fear, they won't.
Parallels to 1945 and 1989
Submitted by Frank Lee on Thu, 2008-03-27 23:42.
The film ends by noting that in 1945 Nazism was defeated in Europe and in 1989 Communism was defeated in Europe. Now, it states, the Islamisation of Europe must be defeated. I must hasten to point out that in 1945 Nazism was defeated in Europe BY THE AMERICANS, and the in 1989 Communism was defeated in Europe BY THE AMERICANS (against the wishes of the majority of the European intelligentsia in the latter case). It is therefore silly and pointless to call upon Europeans to defeat a threat to Europe in 2008. And if the Europeans are expecting us Americans to rescue them a third time, they should be advised that I and many, many others like me will dedicate our remaining days to opposing any effort that would require sacrifice on the part of Americans for the benefit of Europe, which is clearly a hopeless cause.
Frank Lee
Submitted by achille on Fri, 2008-03-28 00:00.
I understand you and i agree as a french when i see our so-called "elites" who has been mostly and strongly linked with the left keeping continuously an antiamerican stance and now leaning to the islamic world sharing anti-americanism , anti-semitism/sionism,anti-western conservatism...
But anyway islamism is a threat for all the "free world" and the war against it will need a strong alliance between all the freedom fighters.And europeans will have to really fight in that war.
PS.: I totally disagree with MaitreZ who looks like the usual average useless european liberal.
Europe and above all France spread the marxist ideology by its academics,"pandits","elites"...whose certain went to teach in US Universities(Sartre,Derrida,Foucault...).
USA led the "cold war"( which was also hot somewhere and sometimes)against USSR and wan.
MaitreZ you should speak in your name ONLY !Thank you!I am european as well
@ achille
Submitted by MaitreZ on Fri, 2008-03-28 06:07.
Ache, you should mention that you are western European, not European. You have to remember (if you can as far as 1989) that Europe consists of two main groups: Western and Eastern. Of course I don't speak in your name since you are coming from the West. That means you are a softy liberal compared to us in the East. I think that you will speak Arabic several hundreds of years before we do.
You know what's the big difference between us? You recognized a bunch of sunni muslim savages that live in Kosovo as a nation. You and all European cowards that are dancing the way the US sings. Meanwhile the americans are supplying them with weapons and the Saudis are building them mosques. So much for the Christian Europe. Isn't this the pure definition of hypocrisy my boy?
I have to cut this reply short so I can go to the bathroom and throw up.
@ Frank Lee
Submitted by MaitreZ on Thu, 2008-03-27 23:58.
Frankie, you are a moron. tell me who planted the flag on Reichstag - the americans? Don't think so. Have you ever heard ogf the Stalingrad battle? can you draw a parallel with the D-day in Normandy?
Are you still believing that Reagan brought down communism in Europe? You are an idiot. No one ever mentions anything about Gorby in your brain-washed country.
get lost. We in Europe don't give a hoot about you incult rednecks. A bunch of big talk pussies that can't walk the talk. Name a single war that you guys won - none. You start them without having a clue and then let others to finish them off. You should be banned, you worthless scumbag.
MaitreZ - cool down mate!
Submitted by costin on Fri, 2008-03-28 01:50.
MaitreZ - cool down mate! put you big brains to rest 'cause they'll overheat
@ CostinApostol
Submitted by MaitreZ on Fri, 2008-03-28 03:54.
Costica, when you live 25 years in the USA like I did, you pretty much become aware more directly than indirectly of these cowboys' ignorance that is expressed through a constant European bashing.
They don't like us, period. No matter where you'll go, from Miami to Seattle and from Boston to San Fransicko, forget it. They think that they are God's gift to mankind, they wrote the book in righteousness and the rest of the world is split between liberal/socialist elites and third world inhabitants. I wouldn't say anything if they would be right about it, but boy, are they mistaken.
I'm outta' here.
immigration
Submitted by Armor on Fri, 2008-03-28 02:20.
Frank Lee: "I and many, many others like me will dedicate our remaining days to opposing any effort that would require sacrifice on the part of Americans for the benefit of Europe"
As the whites become a minority in the USA, I think the new "Americans" will be even more averse than Frank Lee to any military involvement in Europe. In the future, the US President may no longer be allowed by American voters to play world sheriff. If nevertheless the White House decides to get involved in the next European civil wars, it will be on the muslims (and Jews) side.
If Americans want to help us, they should do so by setting an example and stopping all muslim immigration. (And while you are at it, please stop all immigration, even non-muslim).
1c: "perhaps you've missed years now of European appeasement and groveling with any lame demand by Muslims made upon their lefty elites."
I think the real problem is the continuing policy of mass immigration. It has nothing to do with appeasement of the muslims. It looks more like appeasement of the European extreme left.
@Armor
Submitted by onecent on Fri, 2008-03-28 02:56.
Armor, the percentage of Muslims in the US compared to the EU is very small and of that % a large number are Arab Christians. There is no comparison. Americans have spoken with a loud voice not missed by our politicans that we want our southern border secured and illegals dealt with. Sorry, but, there is no European take-it-to-the-streets equivalent, just passive silence and stupid election outcomes based on keeping their pathetic entitlements intact.
Americans aren't going to lift a finger to save Europeans from another of their historically self-imposed nightmares this time, any goodwill has long been spent.
I'll repeat what I said earlier, the Dutch sheeple deserve their dhimmitude. Geert Wilders, Hirsi Ali, Theo van Gogh deserved better.
Fitna won't change Dutch dhimmis
Submitted by onecent on Thu, 2008-03-27 22:59.
Actually, Wilders' film encapsulates just a small amount of the rot and violence that infests that miserable and dangerous 7th century cult.
My guess, Dutch dhimmis will simply pause for a second and then continue mindlessly grazing with their vacuous heads down into the oblivion they so richly deserve. Sorry to sound so harsh, but, I have zero respect for the Dutch as a whole. They've piddled away decent western values with their moral decadence.
Wilders did it!!
Submitted by costin on Thu, 2008-03-27 22:46.
Finally.. after months of threats and waiting. This is quite a historical moment. Lets see the reactions in the next few days.
Nice
Submitted by MaitreZ on Thu, 2008-03-27 22:33.
let the freedom rule!!! Down with the coward liberals!
Fitna, on private servers
Submitted by ajm on Thu, 2008-03-27 22:16.
http://www.ajm.ch/wordpress/?p=1028
Submitted by volvomanneken on Thu, 2008-03-27 21:54.
http://rapidshare.com/files/102861434/LiveLeak-dot-com-197203-1fc4_1_.flv