How secular is Turkey really?
From the desk of Ernest Baert on Tue, 2009-03-24 09:09
The advocates of EU membership for Turkey invariably use two arguments: (a) that Turkey geographically is part of Europe (as if for example Denmark is an American country because of its Greenland territory, or Spain is an African country because just across the water it has some remnants of its old empire…), and (b) that Turkey, a supposedly secular Muslim country, would be an ideal bridge to the Middle East and the Muslim world.
Still, “secular” seems to mean a very different thing in a Muslim country, even one held up as a shiny example like Turkey. Take the current selection process of the successor as Nato General Secretary to Jaap de Hoop Scheffer.
Of all the candidates, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, the Danish prime minster, has the best cards: he is supported by, among others, the US, UK, France and Germany. So this should be a done deal if it wasn’t for Turkey. Turkey, like each Nato member, has a veto right in this matter and rumors are it may use it.
The problem for Turkey apparently is that Rasmussen, at the time of the 12 cartoons of Mohammed published in Denmark, refused to intervene in the affair: “I want to emphasize that in Denmark we attach fundamental importance to the freedom of expression, which is a vital and indispensable part of a democratic society", although he went as far as personally deploring the cartoons:
"This being said I would like to stress as my personal opinion that I deeply respect the religious feelings of other people. Consequently, I would never myself have chosen to depict religious symbols in this way.”
It is unlikely that it will ever come to a public Turkish veto against Rasmussen: either Turkey will cave in quietly but grudgingly, or – more likely – the other 27 members will cave in to Turkey by choosing a second-best candidate. Either way, this whole episode illustrates that even in a so-called secular Muslim country freedom of press and of expression is not accepted and that having a country like Turkey as a voting member of an organisation could backfire sooner or later because of fundamental differences of opinion on fundamental democratic values.
If the EU were ever to allow Turkey to become a member state, Turkey would be the most populous EU member state and join Germany, the UK and France as the heavyweights that in effect drive most of the EU politics and legislation. Surely it would just be a matter of time before Turkey would use its membership to push through further EU restrictions on press freedom and freedom of expression in the EU as a quid pro quo for continued subsidies to French farmers.
Within The Story
Submitted by Steve Atkinson on Fri, 2009-03-27 02:38.
My first, and certainly, my lasting impression of Turkey's entry into the EU, is but a simple one. The story characterizes the problems awaiting the EU post-Turkey acceptance decision.
Fair enough as an argument, as such arguments go.
However, my mind drifted up to New York, somewhere near the UN Headquarters. In fact, by gosh, it was the UN Headquarters I was transported to.
We have had these observations in America for many years now, regarding Security Council members possessing veto rights over controversial subject matter i.e. USSR (now Russia), China etc, insofar as western countries are concerned with the very same subjects. Ultimately, a compromise is reached, or the matter is dropped altogether. It is not a matter of who wins, it is simply a struggle to retain the precious status quos. Therefore no substantive progress ensues, merely neighbors squabbling into the night.
There can be no successful bridge built to span the breadth of the ideological chasm separating the West, and Islam, no matter how hard we try. The lines are drawn, and only one side stands to gain, and that one side is definitely not the West.
If Europe sincerey believes Turkey's membership is vital to the future success of the EU, then prepare yourselves for the same stifling, oppressive actions taking place right now in New York City. Can you handle that?
To ribera
Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Tue, 2009-03-24 15:50.
The belief that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" only works up to a point, and that point is most surely reached when your enemy's enemy decides he's strong enough to make an old enemy of a new 'friend'.
I much prefer the sounder wisdom of a different Arab proverb which states " A fool may be known by six things: anger without cause, speech without profit, change without progress, injury without object, putting trust in a stranger, and mistaking foes for friends".
To Atlanticist911
Submitted by ribera on Tue, 2009-03-24 15:15.
The answer : in fact western secularists and "progressists" are simply anti-christian ideologues. They'll always welcome anything able to destroy Christian faith. They will never say anything against Islam because they see it as a mean for destroying Western Religion and civilization.
On the question of Turkish entry to the EU...
Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Tue, 2009-03-24 13:39.
I'd be interested to learn how Tiberg's French "Catholic" 'progressives' think they would deal with all those Turkish 'secularists'( who would surely side with Benedict XVI on the question of contraception, AIDS, abortion etc.,). As to the problems they are likely to encounter from the non-secularists, should Turkey ever be accepted into the EU, these just don't bear thinking about.