The Sailor and the Survivor Go to Washington

From the desk of Sara K. Eisen on Mon, 2010-01-11 09:13

If you are on anyone’s mass e-mail list, by now you’ve probably heard of Harold B. Estes. For those of you who delete anything not work-related before reading, Estes is a very sharp-witted, conservative WWII vet in his mid-90’s who wrote a strong letter of criticism to President Obama, virally distributed by e-mail in November.

His opening shot: “…I am amazed, angry, and determined not to see my country die before I do, but you seem hell bent not to grant me that wish. I can’t figure out what country you are the president of. You fly around the world telling our friends and enemies despicable lies…”

The full text of the letter is here.

When I read it, the letter reminded me very much of my Grandmother. She, too, is in her 90’s. She, too, is a WWII “vet” – having survived Auschwitz in her 20’s. (See more on my amazing Grandma here.)

And she, too, is an avid news junkie who can still debate the issues with the best of them… and is generally bound to tell you exactly what she thinks. Why waste time with political correctness when you’re 91? (Or 36. But that’s for another post.)

Grandma Esther is also not a great Obama fan. She feels sold out, as a rather conservative American and as a Zionist, and recently told me that she feels the world’s atmosphere towards outwardly proud Jews has returned to something akin to what it was in the early 30’s: “I had to live through it once, OK. But to live through it again? I can’t believe it.” What she does believe is that Obama’s apologetic attitude towards nations classically hostile to both America and Israel has made matters far worse, and not better, for the democratic, free world.

She is of course far from alone in this opinion. Harold B. Estes, for one, strongly agrees with her. And the fact that they are both rare living witnesses who were both THERE – that one fought for America’s freedom while the other waited for Allied forced to liberate her from the evil many across the world denied existed – gives them something so strong in common… that I got the crazy idea that they should meet.

So…I contacted Fore n’ Aft magazine, a Honolulu-based Navy vet publication, and the source quoted as verifying the Estes story as real, rather than one of those widely circulated urban legends. Within a day, I heard back from the magazine’s editor, a very open and kind person of the sort you don’t find too many of anymore, who was thrilled to help me arrange a call between Harold and Grandma Esther. (Also instrumental in making the call possible was Harold’s lawyer and confidant, a very friendly member of the tribe who was only too happy to help.)

And so…one Tuesday afternoon about a month ago, Harold and his buddies called my grandma in New York. They talked a bit about Harold’s letter to Obama (my grandma voiced her approval) and about the weather (she wished she were the one in Hawaii) and then about her experiences in the War. I think it was amazing for her to be validated by a contemporary, and I hope Harold had the same feeling.

All in all, perhaps only because of their advanced years, they did not manage to solve the world’s problems, or even just America’s. But I think these two heroes and survivors and opinion-makers got to briefly say: I was there, too, and I can’t believe what I’m seeing now, either…and I get it. I get you.

That’s the kind of empathy I wish for everyone to receive at least once in a lifetime, and for every world leader to possess and express – to his own nation – so that his or her people never feel unheard, invisible, disenfranchised, or unsafe.

It is perhaps a misplacement of empathy, spent on those who would never return it, that is Obama’s problem in the first place.

Here’s to a new decade of understanding and humanity… born of wisdom and courage and endless good energy, things we should not have to apologize for. Harold and Esther would be the first ones to tell you that it would be about time.

This article was first published at Sara K. Eisen's blog.

 

My Dear Kappert

Submitted by Capodistrias on Thu, 2010-01-21 15:01.

Lost your island again? There's a reality show in there somewhere. Kappert and Reality. Talk about a Ying Yang thing. Would one even have to turn on the TV to watch it?

on an island

Submitted by kappert on Wed, 2010-01-20 15:12.

Ms Sara K Eisen should be invited to that imaginary island. I suppose there are veterans waiting for her.

A Foolish Reply

Submitted by Capodistrias on Tue, 2010-01-19 22:07.

Anyone who believes Ms Eisen intended your take on "veteran" rather than my take on what she intended is an ....Chair of Linguistics on Kappert Isle.

Capisce, Capo?

Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Tue, 2010-01-19 20:58.

Anyone who believes a civilian survivor of the Shoah and a soldier are both "veterans" of World War II, in the sense that Ms. Eisen used the term, is a fool.  Period.  End of story.

Stand Up

Submitted by Capodistrias on Tue, 2010-01-19 20:12.

Why Chair not Fellow?

Every as* needs one.

@Atlanticist

Despite forcing me to be my own straight man, there is merit in your proposal, but may I suggest we combine our assets to solve our problems? As the Turks say two as*es are better than one.

Cheers,

Capo

Re: Dear Kappert

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Tue, 2010-01-19 18:47.

@ Capo

 

As a punishment for her prior 'sins' against all that we hold dear, not to mention good old fashioned common sense, personally I'd like to see Kappert get the chair....

I put it to you that this would be a capital idea.

Dear Kappert,

Submitted by Capodistrias on Tue, 2010-01-19 16:03.

I would like to nominate Kapitein Andre as Chair of Lingusitics on Kappert isle.

While he ponders the meaning of veteran, perhaps he will solve the even more profound semantic quandary: if a man can't read, is he a reader? 

Please welcome him as the newest inhabitant of the Kappert Isle, of course, this doesn't make him an islander, because as we know no man is an island, but at least I can be finally donne with him.

Sincerely,

Capo

p.s. Best to Atlanticist. Who no doubt is wondering why "Chair" and not "Visiting Fellow"?

@ maple syrup

Submitted by Capodistrias on Fri, 2010-01-15 01:27.

The 'intent' was simple: to use the word "veteran" within an acceptable meaning for any person who has access to a dictionary, or is at least semi-literate in the english language.

The writer by using the word simply drew attention to the fact that her grandmother faced, fought, and won, by surviving, a victory over the the same core evil that Mr Estes faced on the battlefield, the same core evil that launched and savagely waged the 2nd World War.

This really should not have been an issue, it is a sad comment on the commentor who initially raised it.

 

I would suggest your 'grand narrative' thought might be more pertinent to helping to explain the thinking of the author who recently posted the article on PIUS XII than a telephone chat between two remarkable  90 year olds.

 

 

KA to atheling

Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Thu, 2010-01-14 20:22.

Any new recruit or conscript in any military faces the possibility of war.  This does not change the fact that people enlist in volunteer armed forces for reasons other than entering combat, such as to advance their careers or education, or for job security in a non-combat role.  For instance, while African-Americans represent a disproportionately high percentage of the United States military's manpower, they tend to seek non-combat or administrative positions, and their enlistment rates have reduced sharply since 2003. 

 

You have mined more data from my moniker than Marc Huybrechts ever did, to be sure...  As for Obama's Overseas Contingency Operations (formerly Bush's "War on Terror"), they are minor in American grand strategy, which must deal with China, Russia, India, Brazil, the EU, etc.  The war with Islam will be fought mainly in the cities of Western Europe, not in Afghanistan or Iraq. 

 

Where does boosting morale enter into the equation?  Politics is a very gray world, which is why every word of a holy text, legal code or constitution is debated and re-interpreted endlessly.  Historians have already coined the "post-9/11" era...or was Fjordman correct in describing a war with Islam that has been waged for centuries?  If so, then where do National Socialism and Marxism-Leninism fit?  Are they mere blips? 

 

In the history of counter-insurgencies, Obama's OCOs will neither produce enough casualties nor results to warrant mention, unless of course, the historian is American.  However, the instability south of the Rio Grande will increasingly take center-stage.

To KA

Submitted by atheling on Thu, 2010-01-14 21:46.

"Any new recruit or conscript in any military faces the possibility of war. This does not change the fact that people enlist in volunteer armed forces for reasons other than entering combat, such as to advance their careers or education, or for job security in a non-combat role..."

Agreed, but you can't possibly read into the minds of those who were killed, can you? You will never know their motives for signing up. Better to err on the side of valor, eh?

"Where does boosting morale enter into the equation?"

That's how you win wars. You know that. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. And without morale, there won't be much fight in that dog. Listen, I'm talking from the perspective of the way the military handles this. You don't go and tell bereaved parents and wives that their son or husband died a coward, or as a nobody. Sheesh, I should think that you know that, of all people.

As for the rest of your comment, I don't understand what your angling for. It seems irrelevant to me. I'm simply talking about the guiding principle of maintaining military and civilian morale during wartime. It's quite cut and dried.

The Holocaust as Grand Narrative

Submitted by Maple syrup on Thu, 2010-01-14 21:39.

The Holocaust seems to have replaced the Bible as the Grand Narrative that frames all acceptable discourse. In the past, even liberal secularists had to pepper their writing with glowing references to God. Today, the Holocaust has become our new divinity.

I am not a Holocaust denier. It was a human tragedy of inhuman proportions. But there is a difference between the Holocaust as a historical reality and the Holocaust as a neoreligion.

There is more than a whiff of religious indignation in some of the comments on this thread. What!! You say that a holocaust survivor isn't a veteran! How dare you! Shame! Shame!

Well, no. A holocaust survivor is not a veteran. A veteran is a soldier who has seen combat on repeated occasions. Yes, the word can be used metaphorically in other situations, but there is no metaphorical intent here. The intent is, quite frankly, manipulative.

Who said this:

Submitted by Capodistrias on Wed, 2010-01-13 16:43.

"It is a sad day for military history when a minor counter-insurgency is transformed into a great and heroic struggle." 

A. George III

B. Napoleon at a Goya exhibit

C. Kapitein Andre

D. Losers in General?

Kapitein Andre your concern about insulting real "heroes" and "veterans" in the context of this article suggest that you totally missed Ms Eiesen's reference to "empathy." 

 

KA to traveller & capo

Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Wed, 2010-01-13 15:07.

Sara Eisen specifically used the term "vet" to describe her grandmother as a WWII "veteran" or "war veteran" on the basis of her having survived a concentration camp.  Eisen attempted to equate Estes' military service during the war with her grandmother's experiences, as Estes is a true veteran of WWII, hence Eisen's use of quotations.

@ Kapitein Andre

Submitted by traveller on Wed, 2010-01-13 15:51.

A concentration camp survivor is a veteran concentration camp survivor after that ordeal is finished.
Turn it and twist it like you want.
My reaction was not so much on the semantics, I leave that up to you, my reaction was against your smearing style concerning the use of words by Mrs. Eisen.
Mrs. Eisen and more so her grandmother and Mr. Estes deserve only congratulations and no negative comments about their use of words.
Try some humility in this case, you will be better off.

To quote KA

Submitted by Capodistrias on Wed, 2010-01-13 15:34.

"Lastly, your grandmother is not a “veteran” of WWII. She is a Holocaust survivor, and deserves due credit, but she was not a soldier."

KA shouldn't you have then used double quotation marks to trash talk her claim that grandma was in some way a WWII vet?

As they use to say in the Gulag: "keep digging."

O.E.D. vs KA

Submitted by Capodistrias on Wed, 2010-01-13 14:11.

Oxford finally has a worthy successor. All hail the veteran commentator on TBJ : Kapitein Andre ! etc.,

Capo predicts the KA English Dictionary will set a new standard and add a new meaning, a subtle nuance to the word: DICtionary.   

vet•eran /vetrn/ noun
1 a person who has a lot of experience in a particular area or activity: the veteran British actor, Sir Richard Attenborough
2 (also NAmE informal vet) a person who has been a soldier, sailor, etc. in a war: war veterans a veteran of the Spanish Civil War a Vietnam vet 

Referring to oneself in the 3rd person is, I believe, an amusing and  revealing tendency. I just had to try it. Thanks KA, though I have an urge to go rummage thru some garbage cans in DC. 

KA's response to traveller and atheling

Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Wed, 2010-01-13 11:55.

traveller,

 

A veteran explicitly refers to a serving or former soldier, and all other uses are colloquial and incorrect.  Were veteran applied according to your mistaken definition, the "civilian" veterans of WWII would vastly outnumber the military ones.  I have neither insulted nor harassed Harold Estes, and the latter is impossible given that we have had no dealings. 

 

Honesty or dishonesty does not mitigate or worsen your grammatical errors, which continue unabated.  Perhaps you might confine yourself to the Nederlands section of the Brussels Journal.

 

atheling,

 

Enlisting as a volunteer soldier and expressly voluteering to fight in a war are two very different things.  The Dept. of Defense is not exactly meeting its manpower objectives, and soldiers are deserting when faced with tours in Afghanistan or Iraq.  Heroism is specific and by definition, rare.  It is a sad day for military history when a minor counter-insurgency is transformed into a great and heroic struggle.  This, incidentally, insults those who fought in WWII, whose heroism was measured according to ancient standards, not those of Nancy Grace.

@KA

Submitted by atheling on Thu, 2010-01-14 05:46.

Enlisting as a volunteer soldier and expressly voluteering to fight in a war are two very different things.

Not in America it is. Every recruit is told that when he signs up, he signs up to fight and possibly die in war. Every single one. It isn't like the musical, Hair, you know.

Heroism is specific and by definition, rare. It is a sad day for military history when a minor counter-insurgency is transformed into a great and heroic struggle. This, incidentally, insults those who fought in WWII, whose heroism was measured according to ancient standards, not those of Nancy Grace.

I'm really astonished that you, a person who purports to hold rank in what I presume is the military or police force, seem unaware of the necessity of holding up morale among the citizenry, as well as in the military. Cynicism notwithstanding, of course, but don't you think you're being a tad impolitic? Let the historians make that decision in the future; all has not been played out yet.

On "The Sailor and the Survivor"

Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Tue, 2010-01-12 20:09.

Dear Ms. Eisen,

 

I have read the full letter by Harold Estes, as well as the article on your grandmother.  I take exception to the description of Mr. Estes as “sharp witted”.  Though I completely agree with his criticisms of Obama, his notion of American “ideals” is fanciful rather than factual.  Firstly, the Union did not go to war against the Confederacy to end slavery, which the British had abolished throughout the Empire decades before.  The Civil War had more to do with federal supremacy over the states and political and territorial integrity, than with liberating black slaves.  Secondly, anti-war sentiment in the United States was stronger against WWII than any war since, including Vietnam and the War on Terror.  If anyone in the United States had strong feelings against the Axis Powers, it was Roosevelt, who did his utmost to bring the United States into the war.  Thirdly, those white Americans who supported Obama did so more out of a complex of guilt and redemption for slavery, segregation and Bush, than out of a true color-blind sense of equality. 

 

Lastly, your grandmother is not a “veteran” of WWII.  She is a Holocaust survivor, and deserves due credit, but she was not a soldier.  I have family members who lived through and died in WWII as civilians and soldiers alike, and distinguish between “heroes”, “veterans”, etc.  Nor do I subscribe to the American pre-occupation with describing every dead soldier in Afghanistan and Iraq as an “American hero”, when many were casualties of roadside bombs, and had not yet been afforded an opportunity to the war effort other than riding in an AFV or tank.   This is not to detract from your grandmother’s remarkable story, and ability to avoid the post-traumatic issues that plagued many concentration camp survivors, as most were unable to live a full life.  So, it is encouraging to know that Esther’s life is not defined by her wartime experiences, and she is an inspiration to veterans and survivors alike.

Re: traveler's response to Kapitein Andre

Submitted by atheling on Wed, 2010-01-13 03:34.

Well said. You beat me to it.

Kapitein Andre, those men and women are heroes for volunteering to fight a war while knowing they may die. It doesn't matter if they simply rode an AFV as you callously said, or fought like Audie Murphy. The fact that they are willing to go fight and die for their country is enough. If they showed exemplary courage or conduct, they are given a medal to distinguish them from those who may not have done so.

Now quit sneering. We've had enough of that from others here./sarc

@ Kapitein Andre

Submitted by traveller on Tue, 2010-01-12 21:04.

You really really missed an excellent opportunity to keep your mouth, or your keyboard, shut.
A veteran is not necessarily a military veteran and this lady is definitely a holocaust veteran, and as such a WW II veteran.
To insult and harass a man of Mr. Estes age who has the balls and the sharp wit to write such a letter to Obama is really indecent, even for you.
I remember you attacked me one time because I made the honest mistake of chosing the wrong English expression, you presently heaped the mistakes in a pile and had absolutely no call to make this comment.

Of Course Not

Submitted by Dr. D on Tue, 2010-01-12 04:01.

Of course Mr. Estes did not get an answer. Zero only answers when it makes him look good, and that was not possible in this case. Don't you know ... it is all about HIM??