The Jihad Is Against The Bible
From the desk of Diana West on Fri, 2011-09-02 15:16
Beyond the 10th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks looms another signal date in the annals of global jihad. That date is September 20, when the Palestinian Authority's Mahmoud Abbas is expected to petition the United Nations for statehood.
What would a U.N.-ordained Palestinian state have to do with global jihad? Practically everything, because such statehood would mark a major victory in the long war on Israel's existence. And, whether unadmitted or unimagined, it is Israel on which the axis of Islamic jihad turns.
I've never been more convinced of this than after reading four, clarifying pages of Bat Ye'or's new book, "Europe, Globalization, and the Coming Universal Caliphate" (Lexington Books). In a first-chapter primer on the relationship between the European Union and the Organization of the Islamic Conference, much of which revolves around mutual animus toward Israel, Ye'or revisits the hateful perversion that passes for political normal: the relentless mission of the Islamic world, with EU encouragement, "to appropriate a tiny piece of land" - Israel - as a political and religious cause despite the fact, as she reminds us, no town, village or hamlet of Israel is mentioned in the Koran or early biographies of Muhammad.
Why Israel? Ye'or asks. "Given the immense territories conquered and Islamized over thirteen centuries of expansion and war," she writes, "why would Muslim countries keep plotting to destroy Israel?" And further: "Why does the immense oil wealth of Muslim nations nourish a flood of hatred that poisons the heart of humanity against such a small nation? Why is Israel considered so alarming?"
The well-read global citizen might regurgitate something about land, modern Zionism and the post-1948 "plight of the Palestinians," but these are stock narratives overwriting the age-old reason. "What Israel possesses," Ye'or explains, "is the Bible."
To appreciate the depth and breadth of this perhaps obvious but seldom pondered explanation, it's essential to realize that Jewish and Christian Bible characters, from Abraham to Moses to Jesus, pop up in the Koran as Muslim prophets who actually preach Islam, not Judaism or Christianity. This is the time-wrinkling, religion-morphing way in which Islam repudiates what it regards as falsifications in both the first (old) and second (new) testaments. Given that the Jewish and Christian religious books long predate the Islamic religious book, it's not surprising that in their Koranic guises the biblical characters "wander," as Bat Ye'or writes, "in uncertain space with no geographical or temporal references." Still, Muslims claim that these same "Muslim" characters lived in "Palestine," Bat Ye'or writes, on the basis of the "Jewish and Christian scriptures that they reject."
It follows from this highly unstable construct that Islam sees the biblical past as Islamic history "usurped" by Jews and Christians. Thus, "the land in which it took place -- though ... never mentioned in the Koran -- is (considered) a Muslim land, and Jewish and Christian holy sites are all (considered) Muslim," writes Ye'or, the pre-eminent modern historian of "dhimmitude," the diminished condition of non-Muslims under Islamic law (Shariah).
The land of Israel itself -- whose "every region, town and village is mentioned in the Bible with historical and chronological precision" -- is thus "sacrilegious" to Muslims, she explains. "They observe with destructive rage this unfolding return of history that they claim as their own. ... Any confirmation of the veracity of the Bible is seen as an attack on the Islamic authenticity of the Koranic figures taken from the Bible."
So much for those slivers of real estate as being the driver of war on Israel. It is, in fact, a jihad, a religious war against Judaism and the land of the Bible, root of Christianity. As Ye'or puts it, "Israel, in the land of its history, towns and villages, resuscitates the Bible, the book the Koran must supplant."
This back-to-basics interpretation allows us to see through the masks and deceptions to a war on Israel that is also a jihad against Christianity. Remember that the Koranic Jesus, Isa, has Muslim, not Jewish roots. As Ye'or writes, Muslims see Christians as having gone astray by "placing themselves in the lineage of the Hebrew Bible, because their real origin is Islam." The Islamic answer is to return Christianity to its supposedly Koranic origins.
And then? Bat Ye'or believes "the destruction of Christianity's sustaining Jewish roots (would) facilitate its Islamization."
And the world's.
only ignorants around
Submitted by kappert on Mon, 2011-09-12 13:42.
To foster your claim of me being ignorant, just another subjective affirmation of one of my Middle East friends:
"Better to be a Jew in Tehran or Casablanca, than a Palestinian in Jaffa."
On politeness and moral depravity
Submitted by marcfrans on Fri, 2011-09-09 23:15.
It is not every day that a nutty rightist would lay claim to politeness/politesse, immediately after
- hiding behind Oscar Wilde to call someone else a "fool"; and
- justifying Hitler's and Stalin's persecution of...jews.
My 'origins' are totally irrelevant to the arguments presented. They lie in Flanders (northern Belgium) and, given the complex history of that region, are likely to consist largely of Germanic (Dutch/German) elements mixed in with a smattering of Romance elements (French/Spanish?). While this may not prelude a smidgen of 'jewish' elements, I am not aware of it.
We all know, of course, that moral depravity can have no limit, as the presumed "great historical leaders" Hitler and Stalin (dixit Zografos, presumed PhD) have amply demonstrated. And their track record started with the exploitation of closed minds (i.e. of people who can be made to believe anything and who can sink to incredible depths of moral depravity behind a 'polite smile').
Amusingly...trapped
Submitted by Yiannis Zografos on Sun, 2011-09-11 18:53.
While you may question my degree, let me question your "germanic" origins.
Your effort to persuade "not being" a jew, is fatal! Don't you get it? I have never tried to persuade someone for being "white"...
Y.Z.
Submitted by traveller on Sun, 2011-09-11 21:15.
I can't stand to read your BS anymore.
You persuaded me that you are a complete moron.
On resting one's case
Submitted by marcfrans on Fri, 2011-09-09 16:19.
When one does not have "a case", or cannot rationally explain how Israel + a minuscule number of jews could own 60 % of the world's wealth, I guess the best thing to do is...verbally resting one's case. References to Andromeda and to a conspiratorial "lobby" do not constitute a rational case. It is a safe bet to say that virtually the whole world is engaged in lobbying of one kind or another. And, anybody who thinks that China, India, Russia, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Japan, Spain, the USA, Nigeria, etc...are being "manipulated" by 'jews', does live in another...."galaxy".
After reading the claim that Hitler and Stalin were "great historical leaders" who were supposedly justified in "persecuting" people (anyone really), one cannot escape the following sad conclusion. When comparing the absurdity of leftist kappert (Israel as a presumed Apartheid state) with the absurdity of rightist Zografos (60% of world wealth supposedly held by jews), Kappert's claim likely rests on ignorance whereas Zografos' claim surely results from moral depravity. That is a sad conclusion, indeed. In this specific case, the nutty right appears to be worse than the nutty left.
About origins and politeness
Submitted by Yiannis Zografos on Fri, 2011-09-09 22:26.
Instead of argueing relentlesly one should have from the beggining told us, that... he is a jew! We would have undoubtedly respect his origin, because we, the "nutty rightists" are, after all, polite! (Over and Out)
RE: Palestinian independence and jihad
Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Thu, 2011-09-08 08:07.
1. I fail to see how the Palestinians pose an existential threat to Israel. If united with Israel, they could pose a demographic threat against Israel continuing as a Jewish state. However, they are a mere nuisance, whether fighting coventionally or unconventionally
2. From 1948 to 2011 inclusive, a total of 13,000 to 17,000 combatants and civilians died during the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This is a low-level insurgency not a civil war. Moreover, over 5 Palestinians have died for every Israeli killed. Despite gaining disproportionately intense media interest in their cause, the Palestinian insurgency has been remarkably counter-productive from a strategic perspective
3. Jihad is overrated where Israel is concerned. Israel’s major and existential threats have always been from other states, including Egypt, Iran, Iraq and to a lesser extent the Soviet Union. Right now Iran is a threat, although Turkey may become a problem. Despite the currents of Islamic supremacism and sectarianism running through Israel’s adversaries, their motives are rational and geopolitical rather than religious. Egypt, Iran, Iraq and Turkey all desire(d) regional hegemony and influence
4. Islamic supremacists will never be content until the world is a single Caliphate. However, the Palestinians have legitimate grievances against Israel for denying them the right to self-determination. Allowing the Palestinians to declare indepdence (albeit peacefully) will do much to heal the conflict. After all, Egypt and Israel both became friendly despite the efforts of supremacists on both sides. Today Egypt has a strong military with Western equipment and training, and yet it is not a threat
Apartheid and monopoly
Submitted by marcfrans on Wed, 2011-09-07 23:49.
It should be obvious that neither the political right nor the political left has a monopoly on stupidity. This was clearly illustrated by 'rightist' Zografos (with his parroting of an absurdity from the "Protocols of Zion") and 'leftist' Kappert with his ludicrous charge of "Apartheit state" (which he misspelled the 'German' way).
Anyone who is seriously interested in investigating the Apartheid charge, may wish to consult the following source (with the core sentence also highlighted).
'University is supposed to be about learning to use your brains, to think rationally, to examine evidence, to reach conclusions based on solid evidence, to compare sources, to weigh up one view against one or more others...'
http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/2011/09/non-jewish-scottish-professor-responds.html
This interesting website was pointed out to me by a former participant on The Brussels Journal, 'Atlanticist', who unfortunately is no longer able to participate.
yes, stupid
Submitted by marcfrans on Tue, 2011-09-06 23:41.
@ Zografos
I used the word "stupid" to characterise your ridiculous assertion that jews would own 60 percent of the world's "wealth". The words "idiot" and "fool" are entirely/exclusively yours.
I have presented some information that could help you in understanding the absurdity of your claim. Given that you have no desire nor ability to defend your ridiculous assertion about jews and world wealth, I can understand why you would want to deflect attention to some irrelevant quotation from Oscar Wilde.
By the way, "the Protocols of Zion" is not a credible source with regard to anything, and certainly not pertaining to economic claims or opinions. But, your problem seems to be much deeper than purely economic ignorance. A careful reading of your second commentary here, reveals that you do not even understand the difference between the terms "fact" and "opinion". Sadly, in that you are not alone, of course.
The actual share of the world's wealth (defined as real durable capital assets), held/owned by Jews, is an UNknowable fact. Various estimates of that share could be attempted, based on a number of assumptions and opinions underlying these assumptions But REALISTIC estimates will reveal a low number, certainly less than a few percent of world wealth, simply based on the real facts of (a) Israel's small share in world GDP (and thus small share of underlying capital stock or base) and (b) on the minuscule number of jews (relative to nonjews) in almost all other countries in the world.
marcfrans and Andromeda
Submitted by Yiannis Zografos on Fri, 2011-09-09 09:05.
Since you deliberately stress out that jews's wealth are 'Israel's small share in GDP" and the "minuscule number in other countries" (!) then ... i rest my case!
Where you live, in Andromeda galaxy, you've never heard of gigantic global (though not...interstellar, yet) organizations financed mainly by jewish capital, that manipulate economies, states and political decisions. You have never heard, in Andromeda, the term "lobby" and how they work with goverments, banks and organizations. Your persistence is annoying to all those who know exactly how the jews - not the Israelis or their state, dear alien-have been collecting through the ages, these loads of money they possess. In case you still have another view, please ask ANY great historical leader you might find wandering in the universe you are now travelling: Mohhamed the Second, Czar Peter the Great, Stalin, Hitler etc. and ask them: "Why in hell are you persecuting those poor creatures of God?" Then , you may get the answer..
Investigating arguments
Submitted by marcfrans on Tue, 2011-09-06 20:45.
1) They preach "the same" monotheism? Really? The Old Testament teaches "an eye for an eye", many claim that the New Testament teaches "love thine enemies", and the Koran teaches...what? You tell me! There can only be one God, but there can be many interpretations of....the meaning of life. It is high time that you realize that.
2) It is not a question of maps.
3) I have lived in many countries, and yes very few can be considered "open" as I have defined it. That is precisely why I know that Israel has an "open" political system (for its citizens!) while none of its neighbors has.
4) Naturally, you are not (yet) in the position of Israel, and cannot conceive that others are not in your position.
5) You think that feeding a tiger, by offering him your arm, will appease the tiger? How naive can you be? The crucial matter here is the nature of the 'beast' that confronts you, i.e. the political culture of the other side. How quickly Germans (and others) forget!
Et alors # 2
Submitted by marcfrans on Mon, 2011-09-05 23:07.
1) No, it means that if the Koran mentions earlier 'profets', it does NOT follow for example that Abraham and Moses were preaching 'islam' or that Jesus did not preach christianity. Frankly, I cannot see kappert as an expert on islamic values, but rather as an example of idiotic misinterpretation of judeo-christian values.
2) If China says that Tibet is part of China (even though Tibetans do not agree) , and if France says that France is geografically bigger than historical Isle-de-France (around Paris) how come Kappert is not questioning those claims? Could it be that he is an apologist for islamisation?
3) Kappert wouldn't know what an "open society" is. It is a society in which power alternates regularly and effectively between different ideologies, and in which there is freedom of speech or opinion. By those criteria, there are few countries in the world that can match Israel. Extremely few, and certainly none of the neighbours of Israel, nor contemporary Germany, Austria, Belgium, France....
4) I see, Kappert naively thinks that France (De Gaulle) did NOT think/judge that France "had to have one". So, in his mind, France, Pakistan, Iran, etc...are going for the atombomb because of what? For the fun of it? Mindboggling stupidity...
5) Indeed, Israel has much to fear from the autocracies and tyrannies that surround it.
loss of arguments
Submitted by kappert on Tue, 2011-09-06 10:27.
1) From Abraham to Mohammed, all are preaching the same monotheism.
2) Look at historical maps to find out Yis'real and compare to contemporary Israel. You like to foster myths.
3) I suppose you are not familiar with any 'open system'.
4) Mindboggling stupidity (I like that) is to have the Bomb.
5) ... then they should start a peaceful offensive and give back rights and territories.
Et alors
Submitted by kappert on Mon, 2011-09-05 21:07.
1) Glad you agree on the sillyness of the West/Ye'or text.
2) Thanks for explaining that 'Palestine' comes from 'Filistin'. Yis'rael is a tiny strip between Haifa and the Jordan Valley.
3) Unfortunately the emigrating Jews after WWII did not build an 'open society' but rather hide in their shell and armed themselves.
4) The difference between the big countries having the A-Bomb and Israel is that tiny Israel with 1/3 inhabitants of NYC had to have one ...
5) ... which brings us to the profound fear they must have. In wars against Egypt (another Land of the Bible), Jordan (another Land of the Bible), Syria (another Land of the Bible) and Lebanon (another Land of the Bible) they occupied foreign territory claiming it as a defensive initiative. Calling Israel a land of 'freedom and democracy' may apply to the Jews, and even some of them are getting increasingly angry about the applied policy of today's government.
@ Yiannis Zagrafos. Fact(oid) Check
Submitted by Wynne on Mon, 2011-09-05 17:06.
"...never forget that the [sic] 0,2% [sic] of the global population (the Jews), holds the [sic] 60% of the global wealth [.]"
That is an astonishing assertion. Less for its political implications than for its obvious intellectual dishonesty.
If we say that the world's current population is about 7B., we may not be too far off the mark, but certainly it cannot be known within 10%, let alone 0.2%. How many illegal aliens are in the US? Europe? Still, we can count heads and extrapolate with the aid of statistical models. Estimating the world's wealth is another matter entirely.
What is known is based upon gross data from financial institutions, corporate reporting and tax records. These data may have some credibility in First World nations, but -- even there -- they account poorly for criminal enterprises engaged in money laundering and secret investments. In Second and Third World countries far less information is available. What can be known about assets in the hawala network of money brokers, those of Russian oligarchs, Afghani poppy growers or world-wide drug cartels? In trying to establish the total wealth of 7B. people a rounding error of 20% would not be surprising.
To assert that .02% of the world's population (not known with precision) holds 60% of global wealth (unknowable) goes from the merely risible to the ridiculous on its face. It is a statement rooted in dogma, not fact.
guilty and stupid
Submitted by marcfrans on Mon, 2011-09-05 20:26.
Irrational 'haters', like Zografos, are beyond reason. But, for others, it might be useful to consider the economic concepts of "income" and "wealth/capital".
Total world income is the sum of the GDP's (gross domestic product) of all countries. It is the value of all output (goods and services) produced in those countries in a given time period (it is a flow variable), and is by definition also equal to the sum of all individual incomes in those countries/economies and to total (final) expenditure in those economies. It should be obvious that the GDP of Israel is a tiny (neglible) fraction of world GDP, and also that the share of income accruing to 'jews' in other countries is...'peanuts'. How many jews are there in China, in India, in Saudi Arabia, etc...? How many are left in Germany (biggest economy in Europe)?
Total world wealth is a stock variable (not a flow variable). We could define it as the some of all durable assets that (in combination with labor) help produce that world income every year. As such it consists of all real capital goods on which annual production is based, i.e. natural resources (like oil and agricultural land), machinery, and 'human capital' (knowledge), etc... Again, from a WORLD perspective, the fraction of that 'real capital' held by jews is....minuscule.
60% ? One must be really stupid (or blinded by hatred) to believe such nonsense.
Stupid and idiot
Submitted by Yiannis Zografos on Tue, 2011-09-06 22:44.
The word "Idiot" derives from the ancient greek word "ιδιώτης" and literally means someone who minds his own business. Well, i don't. Although, I prefer to be reffered by marcfrans as 'idiot' instead of "stupid". But i also feel obliged to remind him the glorious say of Oscar Wilde:"The ultimate pleasure, is to be considered idiot, by a fool"
recent protests in Tel Aviv
Submitted by antibureaucratic on Sun, 2011-09-04 05:51.
Interesting is the fact that recent middle class protests in Tel Aviv have adopted the same rhetoric and slogans as Syria, Egypt and Libya. They are protesting that while 8 families control the wealth of the nation, a middle class family can barely afford to pay the rent. I have heard up to 150,000 have attended such mass demonstrations, and that the Israeli government does not know what to say. No doubt they will divert the movement by distracting them with Palestinian attrocities.
5 silly questions
Submitted by marcfrans on Fri, 2011-09-09 23:25.
1) The first question is like asking "Do you deny that the DDR called itself a "democratic republic"? If one responds by saying "no", does that mean that the DDR was democratic? If one asks silly questions, one can only get silly answers.
2) The name "Palestine" is derived from that of the Philistines (an agrressive maritime people who invaded the area about 1200 B.C.). It did achieve temporary unity under Saul and a strong monarchy under David and Solomon (998-826 B.C.). Its history is tied up with that of many peoples as it functioned as a useful corridor between a variety of ancient and contending civilisations. The Romans used a variety of names for the area in question.
For the Hebrews it remained..."a land flowing with milk and honey"....The concept of the nation of Israel, was the motive behind Moses' exodus, and Joshua's conquest, the object of the labors of the judges and the efforts of Saul, the incentive for David's struggles, the magnet for the exiles returning from Babylonia (not just Hitler's horror show much later), the price for which the Maccabees where willing to lay down their lives"...
3) Yes, many European jews emigrated to Israel after WW2, and for good reason! Et, alors?
4) It is said that Israel has the atombomb. Et, alors? So, do the French and the Pakistanis, and so will the Iranians soon. Which one(s) of these bombs threaten democratic freedoms, anywhere? I can spot at least 3.
5) Israel does not deny the creation of....a Palestinian state that is compatible with its own survival as a free and democratic country. By contrast, its neighbours do deny democracy and freedom to themselves, and surely do not want such an 'example' in their midst.
twister # 2
Submitted by marcfrans on Sat, 2011-09-03 16:38.
It is indeed remarkable how..."people invent conspiracies and myths by twisting history". Take kappert, for instance. To him, the Old Testament appears as a part of the Koran, and the New Testament is an "entirely Roman tale".
As to modern Israel, that would seem to be..."populated with the tormented citizens of Europe after WWII"..., so it must be a nation of very-senior citizens! Kappert also blames them for..."never conceil(ing) peace"...and relying on deterrence! It may well be that contemporary Germans do not mind losing their democratic freedoms, but why should those senior citizens in Israel follow them in that folly?
twister #3
Submitted by kappert on Sat, 2011-09-03 17:41.
Do you deny that Abraham (read Suhuf Ibrahim), Moses (read Tawrat) etc. appear in the Quran? Wasn't Palestine not a Roman province when Jesus appeared there? Haven't European Jews emigrated to Israel after WWII? Doesn't have Israel the atombomb? Does Israel not deny the creation of a Palestinian state?
twister
Submitted by kappert on Sat, 2011-09-03 11:19.
Amazing how people invent conspiracies and myths by twisting history. To link 911 with the creation of a Palestinian state is hilarious, as the rest of the text by West and Ye'or. A Palestinian state is a satisfaction for the Palestinian people.The declaration of 'Israel - Land of the Bible' belongs also to wishful thinking and myth creation: Israel and Judah have existed between 1200 and 576 BC, partly captured in the Bible's Old Testament. The Bible's New Testament is an entirely Roman tale from the province of Palestine, and modern Israel (since 1948) is a result of zionism without any historical context (Theodor Herzl pondered Uganda and Alaska as well!). The Quran mentions all the old prophets and decribes their submission to God ('Islam'). Towns and places in today's Israel are mentioned as well, naturally in Arabic transcription.
Israel does not possess the Bible - that would be an arrogant statement, wouldn't it. Modern Israel, populated with the tormented citizens of Europe after WWII, created an apartheit state, with different rights and status for its inhabitants. Israel did never conceal peace with its neighbours and opted for a policy of deterrence, including the atom bomb.
conceal peace???
Submitted by antibureaucratic on Sun, 2011-09-04 05:59.
@ Kappert - I think you mean make peace. Try reading Mila 18 and other books on the subject and you may get a clue as to why some Zionists feel entitled to some territory, somewhere in the world. This land of Israel was the only thing offered to them. Modern young Israelis do not think in terms of Jew versus Gentile, or Jew versus Philistine, or Gew versus Goyim - they think in terms of being safe, and they feel safe. I do not condone Israel's violence and sanctions towards Gaza and the Palestinian State, but it is not for me to say who is right and who is wrong. In Israel today there is many a young Yid married to an Arab living happily ever after...
Mr Zografos may (claim to)
Submitted by marcfrans on Fri, 2011-09-02 22:39.
Mr Zografos may (claim to) have a Ph.D. in "criminal law", but he certainly hasn't got an elementary understanding of economics. He also lacks common sense (which is infinitely more important than formal degrees). How else could one explain that he is not embarrassed to parrot the ridiculous claim that "the jews" would hold..."60% of global wealth"? The claim is ridiculous on its face. Let this be a reminder to those foolish enough to believe that only those lacking a formal education (say the Arab street, or the Greek street) could hold ridiculous views. Clearly, a graduate degree from the University of California is no guarantee of 'sanity'.
His comment about Turkey, as a former "ally" of Israel, also suggests that he entertains childish notions about how governments, almost any governments, necessarily must behave in furtherance of their nations' interests. The current split between Israel and Turkey is certainly not of Israel's choosing.
the guilty thoughts of marcfrans
Submitted by Yiannis Zografos on Sun, 2011-09-04 21:33.
Do we have to present to marcfrans a bachelor in economics, so that we may mention the well known fact that jews hold the 60% of the global wealth? Is it bad? Why does he have 'guilty thoughts' about that? May be because he believes what the rest of the world knows but he dares not to admit: That all this wealth was not piled up with legitimate means, the most of it. If he still believes otherwise, let him just read the "Protocols of Zion". In case he still has doubts, then, i may need to mention some names of individuals and notorious firms to 'persuade' him. In private off course...
Islam, Jews and Christianity
Submitted by Yiannis Zografos on Fri, 2011-09-02 20:00.
It seems like "legitimate defence" for the Jews to seek for solidarity against the Islam, now that they split up with their former allies, the islamic state of Turkey. In the bottom line though, we should never forget that the 0,2% of the global population (the Jews), holds the 60% of the global whealth