Dispatch from the Eurabian Front: Sharia Law in the West?

From the desk of Hjörtur J. Guðmundsson on Mon, 2006-02-27 15:40

A poll published last week (Feb. 19) in Britain’s Sunday Telegraph, reveals that four out of every ten British Muslims want Sharia law introduced in areas of the country which are pre-dominantly Muslim, while 41 percent oppose it.

Sharia law is used in large parts of the Middle East, most notably in countries such as Iran and Saudi Arabia. The law is enforced by a religious police. Special courts can hand out harsh punishments; for sexual offences punishments include stoning, for theft amputation, and for apostasy death. The law also contains detailed rules for practically every aspect of life and is made up of elements from the Koran and the Hadith besides rulings by Muslim judges from the first centuries of Islam.

Sharia law also includes provisions that allow men to have several wives. Women are inferior to men and can easily be divorced. It suffices for the husband to recite „I divorce you“ three times. A woman’s testimony is worth less than that of a man, and women cannot marry non-Muslims though Muslim men are allowed to marry non-Muslim women. Sharia law also enforces a dress code on men and women, although the dress code for men is much more relaxed than that for women. The latter are required to cover themselves entirely, including their hair and the shape of their bodies, except for their faces and hands. Such paragraphs obviously conflict with Western societies where individual freedom and the equal treatment of citizens are among the main principles. Radical Muslim imams, however, want to cordon Sharia provisions off from Western influence.

Canada

In September the head of Canada's Ontario province, Dalton McGuinty, rejected a proposal to allow Muslims to use Sharia law in family disputes such as divorce and child custody. Marion Boyd, a former attorney general, had recommended this in a report, but Mr McGuinty ruled against the move, saying there should be “one law for all Ontarians.”

Australia

In Australia Finance Minister Peter Costello, who is widely expected to become Australia’s next Prime Minister, demands that Muslim extremists with dual citizenship who scorn Australian values, be stripped of their citizenship. Such people should settle in countries where they feel more comfortable, said  Mr Costello. He also denounced multiculturalism as “mushy and misguided” and wants new citizens to accept Australian laws rather than attempt to live by alternative codes from their home countries, such as Sharia law. He said it was a sign of respect for Australia in the same way that taking off one’s shoes before entering a mosque shows deference towards Islam. “If you have strong objections to walking in your socks, don’t enter the mosque,” Mr Costello said in Sydney late Thursday. “If you have strong objections to [Australian] values, don’t come to Australia.”

Australian Muslim leaders have strongly criticized Mr Costello’s comments while complaining about alleged hostility towards Muslims from the Australian conservative government. Meanwhile Prime Minister John Howard has come out in Mr Costello’s support saying his comments were „fundamentally accurate“ and accusing Muslim leaders of being too sensitive to criticism. “He’s not trying to stir up hostilities with Islamic people,” Mr Howard told commercial radio. “For some to throw up their arms in horror and say that there’s something wrong in even talking about this issue is ridiculous,” he added.

Norway

The Norwegian human rights think tank Human Rights Service (HRS) recently warned against compromising with Islamists. “There is a gulf between secular democracy and Islamism as a totalitarian ideology which goes hand in hand with fascism, communism and nazism. Indications of the similarities between those ideologies is the Islamists’ derogative views on Jews, that they exalt themselves as superior people, and that they want to subvert secular democracy,” said Hege Storhaug from HRS to the Norwegian newspaper Klassekampen.

In Mrs Storhaug’s opinion the increasing debate on Islam has made the lines clearer, showing better which Muslims are Islamists and which ones are willing to become part of the Norwegian democratic society. She said it is terrible to see Muslim women in Norway wearing burqas in accordance with the Sharia law’s dress code. Mrs Storhaug also said she is very concerned about the attitude of Islamists towards homosexuals. The radical Mulims want homosexuality to be punished with death. “I would like to see an imam who says that Sharia law would not prevail in Norway if Muslims were in the majority,“ she said.

Belgium

Last December a poll in Antwerp among a representative group of Muslim youths between 15 and 25 years of age, revealed that 21% of the young Antwerp Muslims find it “problematic” that the majority of Antwerp’s citizens are non-Muslims.

Re: Moral fortitude

Submitted by Defender on Sun, 2006-03-05 06:19.

” One lot decided their readers wanted one thing, the other lot something else.”

This is what amazes me: The entire British press concluded that no one wanted to see the cartoons, judging by the number of Britons who throughout the web have asked where to find the cartoons; I think the entire British press needs to find some new market researchers.

“The reason that the British press published photos showing bad behaviour by British soldiers is basically because the majority of their readers are against the war.”

That doesn’t change the fact that they actually were pouring petrol on the flames, now does it!

Defeating Defeatism

Submitted by truth serum on Sat, 2006-03-04 14:11.

Back to the subject at hand...I read and excellent opinion by a European blogger yesterday by Wolfgang Bruno 

 

"Muslims misunderstand the mentality and potential response from the infidels because they see mainly the appeasement of the political class. What they don’t see is the simmering defiance that is growing at the grassroots level."

"However, we should be careful not direct this anger towards that favorite Eurabian boogeyman, the USA and Israel, nor should we resort to the time-tested European tradition of targeting random “foreigners.” It wasn’t the Americans or the Israelis who brought us into this mess, and it certainly wasn’t the Indian dentist or the Chinese shopkeeper down the corner. It was in fact our very own EU elites."

 

http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/WolfgangBruno60303.htm

US policies...again and again and again

Submitted by truth serum on Sat, 2006-03-04 13:54.

bduffy

Thanks for the excellent response to European Muslim.  I too get sooo tired of hearing that it's the US policies that are the problem in the middle east.  What they really mean is that want us to stop supporting Israel for then that would give them a free rein to gather themselves together to start yet another war against them.  And when Israel kicks their a** again...they will then blame it on the US because our policies did not support their attack.

 

You forgot, however, to mention the tsunami in Indonesia.  When that occured...I did not look at them and think of them as Muslims then.  They were a people in desperate need.  I was shocked to tears at the devastation.  Short of going there myself, the only thing I could do was send money.   However, when the tables turned on us with Hurricane Katrina...they said it was "Allah's wrath against us."   After that response...no tears and no money for the people struck by the earthquake in Pakistan.  Cold?  Yes.  I am just burned out by the hypocricy.

Muslim failure

Submitted by Patriot on Sat, 2006-03-04 12:19.

The failure of muslims to assimilate into European culture will lead to more and more civil unrest.  They have come to Europe and are in the process of dividing it.  Europeans must come to the conclusion that Europe belongs to Europeans and if one wants to live here one must abide by its laws of constitution and culture.  If they choose to impose their will on
you, well, I would hope that the expression "fight fire with fire" means something to my European brothers.  

Telling it like I see it Bob

Submitted by bduffy on Sat, 2006-03-04 11:43.

I realize the economic implications that the media has to deal with. However, the position that alot of the media has taken on the catoon subject is pure horse pucky. In the US they claim that they don't show the cartoons because they poor taste or it is not necessary for them to post the pictures, they can describe them for thier audience. They have done this out of fear not out some vauge notion of editorial morality. This is the reason alot of americans are beginning to look around. That is why I came to this site. Imagine my surprise when I actualy saw these cartoons that actualy caused such a fuss. I was shocked that the US media portrayed them as they have. The whole situation is rediculous. There is nothing disturbing or tasteless or terribly offensive in those cartoons, you see much worse in the editorials of most major news papers. So I do commend the danish and other european media outlets for having the Balls to stand up and print the silly little cartoons, unlike the American and British media.... As for the film, released by the british media, that showed the guys getting beaten up by the british military. Those youths were the instigators of riot in Basra that cost thousands of dollars in damage. They attacked armed british troops and were lucky they didn't get shot. Also 2 British soldiers were just recently killed by a road side Bomb that was placed in retaliation for the beatings that were seen on the footage. So in an effort to sell papers and give the anti war public in england what they want they cost the lives of two British soldiers. I find that far more offensive and disturbing than these cartoons.

To EU Muslim- Unjust policy???

Submitted by bduffy on Sat, 2006-03-04 07:14.

What Unjust policies are you refering to??? Are we talking about the unjust policy of allowing the people of the Muslim faith to enter our country, build thier mosques, practice thier religeon freely, own buisnesses without restrictions and limitations, and live thier lives like any other citizen? Or are we talking about the unjust policies of providing tens of millions of dollars, in economic suppoet, annualy to the Palastinian people (the very same ones that were dancing in the streets when two planes killed thousands of people on our soil)? Or maybe you are referring to the unjust policy of us sacraficing our soldiers to save the muslim peoples of Kosovo and Bosnia from genocide. Or maybe the unjust policy of liberating the muslim country of Kuwait from a fellow Muslim country. Or Maybe the unjust policy of removing the Taliban in Afghanistan, one of the most oppresive Islamic regimes that has ever existed. You know the one that openly supported Al quieda and flooded Europe with Heroin. Or could you be talking about our unjust policy of sending millions of dollars to and medical support to Pakistan to aid the muslim people devestated by the giant earth quake? The same people that are burning our flag and sending thier children into the street claiming Jihad against us. The US has sacraficed the bllod of it's soldiers, pulled food from the mouths of it's poor to support the Middle East and it's people. We have recieved nothing in return but BS statements like yours European Muslim. The citizens of the US will not stand for it to much longer, they are getting quite fed up. You have no idea how much your culture is hurting itself by continuously Biting the hand that feeds you.

Re re Taste and decency

Submitted by bduffy on Sat, 2006-03-04 06:47.

I couldn't agree more with defenders position. However it is not just the B ritish press. As an American I have been extremely disappointed to the American press reaction to this whole situation as well. They will pull out all of the stops to bring the public a story that will undermine US government or put the military in harms way. But, when it came to these cartoons they completely caved in and crawled away with thier tails between thier legs. It was emarrasing to say the least. My congratulations and respect to the Danish and European press that had the moral fortitude to take a stand and show the world that freedom of speach and expression are still alive and well.

Moral fortitude

Submitted by Bob Doney on Sat, 2006-03-04 10:21.

But, when it came to these cartoons they completely caved in and crawled away with their tails between their legs. It was embarrassing to say the least. My congratulations and respect to the Danish and European press that had the moral fortitude to take a stand and show the world that freedom of speech and expression are still alive and well.

I think you might be getting a bit carried away on this. Newspapers (apart from the state controlled ones) are business enterprises, and their primary concern is to give their customers what they want. One lot decided their readers wanted one thing, the other lot something else. And I would be interested to know how many stories showing Muslims having a bad time in Denmark Jylland-Posten has published recently. They all have agendas which suit the customers.

The reason that the British press published photos showing bad behaviour by British soldiers is basically because the majority of their readers are against the war.

There is a bigger problem with non-commercial, supposedly objective, news organisations such as the BBC. Their customer base is so broad and their customers so captive (you HAVE to pay their fees to watch telly in the UK) that someone is bound to be upset whatever they do.

Bob Doney

Bob - I think you get something wrong.

Submitted by Poul Nielsen on Sat, 2006-03-04 12:57.

Journalism is not to give what people want. As I remember it in the 70's - a minor american case - called "watergate" was printed and reported in the newsmedias. Not because anyone liked the story - or want it, but because of some journalists was doing their excellent job.

Bob wrote:
"Newspapers (apart from the state controlled ones) are business enterprises, and their primary concern is to give their customers what they want. One lot decided their readers wanted one thing, the other lot something else."

The newspaper I prefer to read, is the newspapers who are asking questions - are writing articles with a content. Not newspapers - who are selling "headlines" with no content at all.

Since you are responding to articles here in Brussel Journal (well written) - and where the writers of the stories - respond to you, is it an example how "new" journalism can work.

RE: Taste and decency

Submitted by Defender on Sat, 2006-03-04 05:33.

“There was a strong sense that we shouldn't be pouring petrol on the flames”

And yet the British press had no problem printing pictures of British soldiers beating up Muslim teenagers! As I have written in another comment on this page: All the British press had to do was print the cartoons on the inside of the newspapers or on their websites, and issue a FrontPage warning to Muslims that in the newspaper or on the website are material they might find offensive, then Muslims could choose not to buy the papers or look at that particular website and everybody else would get a chance to see the cartoons and form an opinion of their own.
Wouldn´t that be the most decent thing to do, that is if you believe in freedom of expression

To False Serum: You should be an ideal Israeli

Submitted by European Muslim on Sat, 2006-03-04 00:19.

Really ,you should be an Ideal Israeli because:

You are a good liar,

You invert the facts easilly,

You falsify the history,

You have a false name "truth serum" , i think you should be a false serum ot truth toxin

.. i am waiting you next time to say "Israeli resistance struggle for liberation of their occupied lands from the Nuclear Palestenian Occupation who supported by USA"

 

 

To: European Muslim

Submitted by Poul Nielsen on Sat, 2006-03-04 00:39.

Liar

Well here in Denmark we know several of those, they are called Imams.

IMAM Abu Laban was couth in telling he was against boykot of danish products to the muslim world - 5 minutes later he told the arab medias - recommand an boykot of the danish product in the muslim world.

IMAM Ahmed Akkari took false pictures and drawings to the arab world, and told the muslim there - that they was pictures from Jyllands Posten. Among those - the french man with a pig-nose.

The only one who invert the facts easilly,
is the IMAMS

Jews Ask: Why Do They Hate Us?

Submitted by truth serum on Fri, 2006-03-03 23:59.

After watching unjust Arab policies continue for years without apology, after hearing of incidents of racist anti-Jewish backlash following the Arab-Israeli wars of 1948-49, 1956, 1967, 1973-74, and the intifada since 2000 perhaps he also senses great tragedy in that suicide bombers spoke to Israel in a language the Arab governments speaks all too well abroad.

Muslims Ask: Why Do They Hate Us?... Very important Article

Submitted by European Muslim on Fri, 2006-03-03 23:22.

After watching unjust US policies continue for years without apology, after hearing of incidents of racist anti-Arab backlash following the execrable crimes of Sept. 11, perhaps he also senses great tragedy in that the hijackers spoke to Americans in a language the US government speaks all too well abroad.

 

more

 

http://www.alternet.org/story/11590/

Beware

Submitted by truth serum on Fri, 2006-03-03 19:45.

uknugget  is a troll....a Muslim in disquise.  I have seen them work before on other websites. 

Re: Beware

Submitted by uknugget on Fri, 2006-03-03 21:54.

Lying_Poison. : Please keep taking the pills....they are prescribed to you for a reason so that you can stop the voices in your head.

To uknugget

Submitted by Defender on Fri, 2006-03-03 05:30.

Not quite, despite of what you may think I actually agree with a lot of things you wrote in you reply, and other parts well there we have to agree to disagree :-)

Nice to have you here, in this forum

Thanks

Submitted by uknugget on Fri, 2006-03-03 22:23.

Defender: Many thanks for the welcome. :-) I think this particular article has been discussed to death now, so I'll stop and comment on others if I feel inclined.

I am still reading bduffy's links with interest... And yes, it is disheartening to read about the depth of barbaric behaviour of some Muslims. - Then I remember that barbarity exists everywhere - even in the most powerful nations, and in the rooms of the best houses in Europe.

Compassion is a trait that we should all be proud to practice. It is not as if justice is not being done: As we have seen recently in the news, those who do not integrate well into our society, those who threaten our lives, and those who make our cities and towns dangerous places to live are being arrested daily and prosecuted, as they should be.

Inciting hatred against millions of moderate Muslims who are the pillars of our society, contributors to our wealth, and have never done any harm to us, is not only unfair and insane, but I expect will have far-reaching consequences for future generations. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction: Hate someone long enough, and they will hate you back. We really do not need to encourage or create any more terrorists in the world, don't you think?

Talk to you on another thread, perhaps..... Thanks again, you're a very genuine soul.

bduffy's links

Submitted by uknugget on Thu, 2006-03-02 16:23.

Many thanks for the links. - I'll get round to giving them my full attention in due course, although I rather think we will have different reactions to the links you have kindly provided.

I have seen some of these, especially the pictures in the last blog recently in the TV news, newspapers (Daily Mail), etc. - These muslims with stupid placards are such obviously deranged idiots that they bother me as much as I am bothered by the religious christian right wing in the USA who picket abortion clinics with disgusting placards, and try to bomb and shoot hospital workers with high powered rifles.- Worrying, but I am hoping the men in white coats will cart them away somewhere safe.

I will read the links and really will try to see what on earth the fuss is all about, but in the final analysis I think I will rely on my personal moral code to determine whether the deplorable amount of hatred and paranoia I have found on these pages is at all justified.... Somehow I doubt it. Peace.

To uknugget

Submitted by Defender on Thu, 2006-03-02 11:45.

If the British and for that matter the majority of the European press were not afraid then why not print the cartoons on the inside of the newspapers or on their websites, and issue a FrontPage warning to Muslims that in the newspaper or on the website are material they might find offensive, then Muslims could choose not to buy the papers or look at that particular website and everybody else would get a chance to see the cartoons and form an opinion of their own. Why do you think that people surfed to the BNP website? Because they wanted to see what all the fuss was about and form their own opinion, and they couldn’t get that information from the British press so I think you are way off when you say it describes the quality of the people who wanted to see the cartoons.

Sorry about your colleague, and by the way I was in no way implying that you didn’t know the dates, was simply referring to the protesters placards.

I am glad that you have found some decent Muslim friends, but I am also with bduffy on this one, sadly they are a minority and there awaits you some ugly discoveries when you scratch the surface on the real Muslim world.

Re: To uknugget

Submitted by uknugget on Thu, 2006-03-02 19:47.

Defender: Well, I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. :-) I do have very grave concerns about not just muslims, but people of all cultures who prefer violence to dialogue, rule of the mob to rule of law, dictatorship to democracy, neo-conservatism to libertarianism, and especially those in backward patriachal societies who treat women and anyone different to their "norm" (Whatever that may be), like second class citizens. I don't have any problems with deporting people who cannot integrate well into our society and those who pose a real danger to our lives. But I do believe in tolerance and fairness - something that is desperately lacking here, and in the offices of a certain Danish press.

As I keep trying to emphasise. One can easily find incredibly dispicable behaviour in ALL societies when you scratch the surface. Targeting Muslims and citing the very worst examples of their religion to exemplify them as animals and incite hatred against them is not only unchristian, but to me, totally unacceptable behaviour. What this site sadly lacks is any semblance of balance. For every one of their insane imams, we have a couple of our own insane priests. For every placard waving crazy Muslim, we have a couple of placard waving crazy christian/animal rights/fathers for justice/whatever campaigner who go too far.

You can clearly see that the reaction of some here to my posts have been positively psychotic to say the least. Perhaps, as you say, I have been extremely lucky in meeting decent Muslims. One thing is for certain, there are two sides to any story, and it would be wise to remember that a defining moment of intelligence is when one can hold two or more opposing views in one's head at the same time. :-)

Re. UK Nugget

Submitted by bduffy on Thu, 2006-03-02 10:41.

That was a great article... It is asking the same questions that everybody here is asking and it gives some answers to those questions... Unfortunately it did not answer my question "What was the point in history were Islam was considered a Religeon of Peace???".... I am guessing it was somewhere around the time when The large oil companies began drilling in the Middle East, but I was wondering if there was anybody out there that might have a definitive answer. I think Defender is absolutely correct in his observation. I believe that most, if not all, of the western main stream media has caved to the pressure of Islam. This whole cartoon fiasco has been a wake up call. I think that probably why most of us are here. We don't believe that we are recieving honest reporting so we search the internet to find out what is really going on. That is probably the reason for Blog phenomenon that is spreading around the world. I have two sites for you. The first is an old site from our jewish brethren. They have been dealing with this far longer than we have. It is a little slanted but they do a pretty good job of breaking down islam as a religeon and have done thier homework

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/infidels_bunker/

The other one is up to date and has quite a few links with alot of good information. There is also alot of slanted information so take everything with a grain of salt. I would guess that alot of people here are already aware of this site. Good luck Nugget

To UK Nugget

Submitted by bduffy on Thu, 2006-03-02 06:47.

I apologize if I was misunderstood..... I was asking an honest question. At what point in History was Islam recognised as a Religeon of Peace??? I have read the Koran, I think you need to do so as well. I have lived with Muslims throughout the middle East. I have fought against them and I have fought with them. New Believer is absolutely correct. I have seen everything she has described and a whole lot worse. There are quite a few very decent Muslims out there. Much like your friends in London. I have met them and respect them. However, from my experience they are the silent minority. I think you need to take a real hard look at the world around you and open your eyes.The one or two muslims you have befriended may be nice. But unlike New Believer you have not lived with them or experienced the full effect of the muslim culture. Do your Homework. Peace out 

reply to bduffy

Submitted by uknugget on Thu, 2006-03-02 08:28.

Bduffy:

There's no need for apologies, I thought the question was (Like many on this site) rhetorical. You are quite right in your criticism: I have not lived with muslims, nor have I read the Koran properly (A couple of chapters and a summary doesn't really count). But I have met and work with decent people who happen to be Muslims, and who I am sure, are very hurt by these kinds of sites.

Christianity Today magazine asked that very same question: "Is Islam a Religion of Peace?" - Here is the link: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2002/001/1.32.html
Sure, I will try to do my homework, but it is against my reason and nature to condemn millions of people for their beliefs (However ridiculous I may find it), or for the stupid or abhorrent actions of some in their group.

Peace.

Thank you BDuffy! Another

Submitted by A New Believer on Thu, 2006-03-02 07:09.

Thank you BDuffy! Another good decent caring person here. I wonder why they think we are wrong? Maybe because none of us are "kissing muslims bums"

Odin be Praised!  Baldur Save Us!

To uknugget

Submitted by Defender on Thu, 2006-03-02 06:44.

Well I can see that Danes are not the standard bearers for your values, but they are for a lot of people who appreciate to live in free countries, with a free press, and the right to express their opinions, and they actually dare to stand up for what they believe in, unlike the British press which were to scared to let the public see the cartoons and form their own opinions and the British Government who actually let a demonstration threaten Europe with more actions like 9/11 and 7/7, which in my world is incitement to violence and terror, and in conflict with British law. I predict that Britain along with countries such as Sweden and Norway in the future will be having huge problems because they, just like you said “lets give these Muslims the benefit of the doubt”, waited to long to address the issue with Muslims imposing their Dark Age beliefs and rules, on the native people of these countries. These countries already has a lot higher rate of hate crimes than Denmark, and for each year they wait to address the issue, the number of hate related crimes will increase.
I must say I totally agree with Mr. Costello when he says “If you have strong objections to walking in your socks, don’t enter the mosque, If you have strong objections to [Australian] values, don’t come to Australia.”, I think that this statement right now says what a lot of Europeans feel should apply for people coming to their country, and to the Muslims already in their countries.

“Lets give them the benefit of the doubt”, maybe you should remember that: they call themselves Muslims – we call them Muslims, we call ourselves Christians, Jews etc. – they call us infidels.

To defender

Submitted by uknugget on Thu, 2006-03-02 08:48.

Okay, now the British press is not free, and too scared to print a bunch of cartoons? :-) Yeah right.

I'd like to think they didn't because they had better taste, decency, and ethics. Oh, we did publish the cartoons.... they were done by the BNP (Neo-Nazi British National Party, indicted on several occasions under the anti-racism act), which just shows the quality of the people interested in seeing them.

There are idiots in any society. My muslim friends were totally ashamed of the idiots demonstrating outside the Danish embassy in London. I go to college in Bloomsbury - where the Tavistock bus bomb was detonated and I lost a colleague, so please don't start spouting dates at me... Unlike you, I am not a soothsayer - I have no idea what will happen in the future, but I am certainly not going to pour petrol on a highly charged issue with someone else's religion, nor impose my will on how anyone should think.

“Lets give them the benefit of the doubt”, maybe you should remember that. No? They call themselves Muslims, - we call them ragheads, arabs, wife beaters, rapists, and animals. We call ourselves Christians, Jews etc - they call us brothers.

Taste and decency

Submitted by Bob Doney on Fri, 2006-03-03 23:11.

Okay, now the British press is not free, and too scared to print a bunch of cartoons? :-) Yeah right.

I'd like to think they didn't because they had better taste, decency, and ethics.

I'm not sure about the ethics, but I don't personally think the British press withheld publishing the cartoons because of fear. There was a strong sense that we shouldn't be pouring petrol on the flames. But I'll repeat my conviction expressed here before that we must not tolerate violence or threats of violence from the Islamist extremists.

Indeed there seems to be more and more evidence that Cartoongate was engineered from caves on the borders of Afghanistan and Pakistan, and frankly to over-react is to play into their hands. What they want is social division and disharmony. We mustn't give it to them. I'm pretty sure these were factors discussed in the editorial meetings of our press.

Bob Doney

-cont-

Submitted by uknugget on Thu, 2006-03-02 03:46.

While it is obvious that Sharia Law or for that matter, ANY other religious rules, and Western Democracies are completely incompatible with each other, I don't think it is just the idiosyncrasies of half witted individuals living in backward countries as it is asserted by some of the posts here. According to some interpretations, Islamic Law is "An Ever-Evolving Science Under The Light of Divine Revelation and Human Reason" (Not my wording, but wording found on this site: http://www.averroes-foundation.org/articles/islamic_law_evolving.html), and as such may one day be completely compatible with all of our values .......... A little far-fetched, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt shall we? I think we can all do with taking a deep breath, before uttering any more horribly inciting words of hate towards one another - whatever you happen to believe in.

If the Danes really are the standard bearers of all the values we hold dear....god help us! - If they weren't a bunch of hate-mongering hypocrites, Jyllands-Posten would not have rejected the Christian and Jewish cartoons for publication. Defenders of freedom, my giddy aunt!

RE: To UK NUGGET

Submitted by uknugget on Thu, 2006-03-02 03:40.

To A New Believer,

I really am very sorry to read about your troubles with your former spouse. I can well understand your reaction to somebody who has caused you emotional pain. But to villify millions of people in the same religion because of your experiences is not really reasonable. As for your assertions that the posts on this site are from "Good caring people", I cannot in good conscience agree with you. Most of these posts gleefully incite hatred against Muslims by picking out facts and figures which only illustrate what animals they are supposed to be....Or are borderline paranoid neurotics fearing the spread of Islam.

I work and socialise with Muslims (As well as a whole wonderful variety people in all their complexity and conditions) daily in London, and I have never had cause to doubt their goodness, integrity, or intelligence. I am sorry if this seems contrary to everyone's opinions here, but it happens to be true!

-cont-

Re: Re: UK NUGGET!

Submitted by A New Believer on Thu, 2006-03-02 05:15.

I am hearing what you are saying. But I LIVED with those people, in the Middle East and in the West. Also do not make it just about the ex-marriage. It is not JUST about what occurred. In fact that part I am over. What I am not over is the lies, the innuendos, the deceit, the sectarian violence, the putrid filth that comes from pandering a group of specious dogs that foam at the mouth for others blood and then lie out of the other side bemoaning they are a "peaceful religion." I took degrees in comparative religion and thrology. Do not tell me about islam. My ex uncles in law were imams, please do not tell me the HATRED I heard preached with my own ears was not so. Do not tell me that the violence against the young palestinian girl was not there in the quarter we lived in. Do not tell me of their charity (zakat) when passing out crumbs and then hosing down the sidewalk after the beggars had left on Eid al Fitr & Eid Al Adha.

cont.

Odin be Praised!  Baldur Save Us!

Re: Re: Uk NUGGET cont.

Submitted by A New Believer on Thu, 2006-03-02 05:16.

Do not tell me about reasonablesnes of a complete IDIOT" who sees the name of GOD in an swirl ice cream cone wrapper. DO NOT SPEAK even in jest to me about the arrest, torture and beatings that followed from trying to leave an airport WITH MY OWN PASSPORT. ( one needs 3 stamps in one's passport if you are a woman and married to a muslim.)
My girlfriend who was lured from her home in Canada by her "slimy muslim mother" ( she had a husband and a child - he was non muslim). THEY KILLED HER! Now they want her daughter. My Pakistani girlfriend set on fire by her disgusting islamic husband and family. ( now that was odd becuase it is usually hindus that pull that one.)
Now, if you wish to
mollycoddle that "godless bunch " go right ahead. BUT do not hand me that softsoap/or manure they have been feeding you. I know better. Believe whatever you want to.
But do not expect me to believe that which they have sold you as gospel. THEY LIE! It is acceptable for a muslim to LIE to a non-muslim. ( Odd that the one of the 9/11 hijackers lied to his wife another muslim.

I LIVED IT AND YOU DID NOT! Sell that argument in London , you and Prince Charles. Do not try to sell it here. No one will believe you.

Odin be Praised!  Baldur Save Us!

To: A New Believer

Submitted by uknugget on Thu, 2006-03-02 06:05.

Well, for a whole host of reasons, you have my sympathies. If what you have written is true and not the clippings of familiar sounding stories from the 'net, then you've certainly had several lifetime's experience of pain, which I have been fortunate enough to miss. I hope you get the peace and help which you seem so desperately to need right now.

Just as you are expressing your point of view, I am simply relating my own experiences of the muslims that I have met and befriended in London. What exactly do you suppose I am selling? Why is it so hard to believe that there are decent people in any society? Have you NEVER seen a decent muslim while living with them for years? If you really haven't, then that is something anyone would find very hard to believe.

Re:Re: Re; To A UK NUGGET

Submitted by A New Believer on Thu, 2006-03-02 06:23.

I do not need to PROVE anything to you and how dare you question me on my life? Where were your "decent muslims" when I was going through hell? How do you think people like me have stories like that on the net. I have never published a website. Outside of my present mate, a good Scandinavian, and close members of my family, well the physicians. I have not talked about much to many except here. Because if I can save ANYONE , just one person I will. This is not " my point of view." This is experience I have lived, what happens. What you state is your "point of view." My experience is a fact.
Oh and before you go to thinking I am some sort of racist woman. I am a native american indian. Put that in the "peace pipe" you want to offer, then smoke it

I have friends who are "holocaust survivors" perhaps we should all show you tattoos for them and my scars for me to you. Pathetic!

Had you truly "read" what I wrote you would know that the"decent muslims" I knew are DEAD! Killed by the filthy scum that roams through the streets, looking for Shar'iah law.

I have nothing further to say to you after this. My life and my personal hell are a soap opera for you. Your decent muslims are a fantasy to me.

cont.

Odin be Praised!  Baldur Save Us!

Re;Re:Re: To UK NUGGET cont.

Submitted by A New Believer on Thu, 2006-03-02 06:34.

Hmm! That is right "jihad" me with accusations to make me look
deranged,confused, or a liar. That way when i tell people the truth, I will look
suspicious and you and your group will look sweet smelling and fragrant. Sorry, you have chosen the wrong woman. I have become wary. I do not trust the "peaceful freedom loving muslims" anymore than I do Hamas, The Taliban, Al Qaeda
or the PLO. And I most assuredly do not trust you or your friends in Londonistan.

I have nothing further to say to you. You are a breed apart and you make no sense.

Odin be Praised!  Baldur Save Us!

RE: To A New Believer

Submitted by uknugget on Thu, 2006-03-02 08:06.

I honestly don't know what to write, except to wish you all the best in your life. I have no idea where all of your hostility comes from or why you believe I am making you "look deranged,confused, or a liar." Quite frankly you are doing that all by yourself.

I am a post grad student in computer science, a christian, and I have always tried hard to live an honest, decent life and treat others as I would like to be treated. I have no idea what you mean by "You and your group". - I am not an apologist for radical muslims, terrorists or enemies of civil liberties. I simply think this site is a gross opposition of fairness, inciter of hatred against Muslims, and quite ridiculously silly in its paranoia.

If you have Native American ancestry then you would know the wise words of Chief Seattle to show the interconnectedness of people and nature...

Never mind. I hope you will have something better to do with your spare time than attack and sow hatred for millions of people you have never met.

For the Wasichu United Kingdons Nugget

Submitted by A New Believer on Thu, 2006-03-02 13:57.

First - Chief Seattle is a Suquamish Chief, different tribe than mine. His people got screwed "royally" by men like you.

Second - I am Lakotah
Oglala Sioux, you may remember us we died at Wounded Knee, because practicing
"our religion" was illegal, due to men like you. They machinegunned ( gatling gunned) and bayonetted in the back old men, women, pregnant,mothers, children, and the warriors trying to stand off the massacre just a little after dawn on December 29th 1890. The soldiers, men like you, were ringed around the camp. People had not even risen from the teepees yet. we were being "resettled" to a reservation. The Chief had not even been violent before, he was going along peacefully.

We killed Custer at the Little Big Horn, he came with some men (the 7th calvary)to "wipe out a few of us." There were heading for sitting Bull's camp. He thought will kill maybe 200 - 300 injuns and get some medals. BIG SURPRISE.
They rode into 10,000
injuns...armed injuns.
Different story hunh?
I think of the people here as my "tribal members" Guess what we are the 10,000 injuns. True we paid for it later. But if they start it and we will finish it for them.

I do not care whether you are an astronaut, the prime minister of Great Britain, or the new Gauleiter of London, ( sure your muslim friends will make you the offer one day.) you being so staunch and all.

cont.

Odin be Praised!  Baldur Save Us!

For Wasichu UK NUGGET Pt 3

Submitted by A New Believer on Thu, 2006-03-02 15:37.

So I tell you what you can do. Take your
HOLY ROLLING ATTITUDE
and your appeasement
bullshit and go back to New Londonistan! You ought to be thankful and kissing the feet of good decent people like Paul Belien, Luc Van Braekel(for keeping the site up!), Foreign Devil, BDUFFY, Mtk2006, Gerbil Crusader, Patriot, Danish Dynamite, Von Schlictningen, Poul Nielsen,Gorm, Balder,FreeSpeech,Hjörtur Gudmundsson,Defender,and a host of others trying to awaken and shake your sorry asses up! You may need them one day, when you are groveling in the mosque in New Londonistan kissing the stinky toes of Imam Abdullah Hamas Al Qaeda and his

and his band of renowned followers, serving out your dhimmitude. there are no racists here only people who will not let ISLAM stand on their necks and break them. If that makes me a muslim hating racist bastard ( okay beotch in my case!).. well then guess I am putting on the MANTLE proudly!

I apologize Paul to you and any ot the other non muslims here for being mean, evil, darn right rude and nasty just now! I also apologize for going over any length lines..BUT I will not apologize to UK NUGGET!

Odin be Praised!  Baldur Save Us!

Oh Gods Paul Belien and Everyone Else BUT UK Nug I am so Sorry!

Submitted by A New Believer on Thu, 2006-03-02 15:46.

I am so sorry I did not mean to get so mad and I do heartily apologize to all of you if I said anything you consider untoward. And if you want to kick me off the site Paul Belien I will understand it. And will go quietly! But I am just got so damn mad. *sighs* But I will not apologize to him and that is my principle. I have to follow that. But I do apologize to all the rest of you for any unseemly behavior.

really glad part II disappeared now * walks away whistlin and looking at the sky*

Odin be Praised!  Baldur Save Us!

to uknugget re: friendly muslims

Submitted by gerbil crusader on Thu, 2006-03-02 09:19.

YOU ARE THE ONE THAT IS DELUSIONAL AND BRAINWASHED.
Not all branches of christianity is free from being brainwashed either. You educational level has nothing with being WISE.
You can be academically successful but a FOOL!
Anyone can claim themselves a label and call themselves a CHRISTIAN? the hostility here is coming from different countries in the world and races with different experiences. You live in the dark ages yourself thinking the way you do!

Why not talk to filipinos who have been fighting muslims from the south for hundreds of
years and i have personal friends who have relatives CAN PROVE YOU YOU ARE AN IDIOT AND DELUSIONAL. Some people here have direct experiences and it's not from the PROPOGANDA made by governments of ISOLATING IT TO JUST A FEW EXTREMIST FUNDAMENTALIST SO CALLED MUSLIMS. we who are experience know better that it's the ENTIRE MUSLIM WORLD and countries who practices that sorry religion. you can no longer hide with your lies and people like you of ISLAM.
You sound like a muslim pretending to be a CHRISTIAN.

India, russia, philippines, most of africa,balkans and europe have a history of your buddies the MUSLIMS...it's not a few extremist, it is the whole religion that is EXTREMIST AND PSYCHOTIC.
Your arguement would be believable if the only people that are criticizing muslims were EUROPEANS OR white anglo saxon, but my mexican, black, white and all of my asian friends from vietnamese, chinese, japanese, laotion and us filipinos are in opposition and hatred of ISLAM, MUSLIMS, THE KORAN, MUHAMMED who is a child molestor and mass murderer derrange, illiterate fool. Glad he's dead burning in HELL...
I believe he'll be reincarnated into a GERBIL so he can be shoved in a MUSLIM'S rear end.
comprende? gerbil jihad!

Re: to uknugget re: friendly muslims

Submitted by uknugget on Thu, 2006-03-02 09:47.

Wow you have totally convinced me with your lucid argument and winning wit!

That's right, personal insults and BLOCK CAPITALS work each and every time if you need to convince someone to your warped world view. Well done!