Ah. Well. If K.C. would not have posted his pleasing comments (proof! he is brittish), i would have replied:

The definitions of Racism in Wikipedia and other dictionaries are just not accurate. If we do not distinct between 'pure racism' and the idea represented by a 'circumstantial racism', we consciously allow rotten apples to infest any healthy ideas on a shared identity in G.B.

If you deny others the pleasure of a shared identity - you yourself mentioned (your) Vedic culture - you are not only dishounest. Some Jews should be observed if they do this trick. Forgive them, display superiority.

Shake hands. Have you heard that many European languages provide examples of Vedic influence - and even culture. F.e. 'weten'('knowing') in Dutch would correspond to 'veda' ('knowing' if i am well informed).
I can hardly believe that linguistic study came up with a 70% correspondence between Sanskrit and the Letvian language.

I don't believe that Indians have Dual Nationality as India doesn't allow it, they are still deliberating on the subject, they fear that the terrorists will take advantage of this facility, but if any one you know has 2 passports then it could be a forgery, please report them to the relevant authorities.

What NRI (Non Resident Indians) a kind of Ex-pats are allowed is a PIO (Person Of Indian Origin) card which allows them to travel without having to take Visa(s). And also if they want to do Business, they get most of the priviliges afforded to Indian Nationals, however they can't buy land for agriculture etc.

I believe it's the Pakistani's who have dual nationality, which is why they end up in Pakistan without being detected by the authorities in criminal cases.

PS Thanks

Good to see that my plea for civility hasn't fallen on stony ground...

King of the Cobras ... you have earned my respect (and I dare say that of many others visiting BJ)

It was brave of you to post so many facts straight from your heart. Please be careful; but I did enjoy reading both your comments. There is much to commend in your list of proposals included in your @ Bananas 2 comment. In fact, there is little I can disagree with. Excellent stuff. Let us both shake hands on that one.

You belong to the good sort and you are certainly very welcome to be my fellow countryman. Historically, you and I have much in common anyway due to the British time in India. We have taught each other much; both the good and the bad.

I have spent significant time in both Gujarat and Madras, Tamil Nadu (plus Mumbai/Bombay; which for those readers weak on geography is situated in Maharashtra state). So, I have much sympathy with your views. If I was a genuine racist (what a tiresome and childish term this is), then I could not have survived beyond a week in India. No?

But, can you see how you and your dear family are getting caught up in the downdraft of issues that are NOT of your making?

Neither is it the BNP who has created this situation. Nor even has it been made by 'genuine racists,' who I acknowledge do exist. The ones who are entirely to blame are the Leftists and their Multicultural / Feminist / Globalization entourage. They are first rate bl**dy idiots who too often are allowed to get away with tasting the consequences of their utterly foolish policies.

And please remember, Whites have feelings and fears too, and Britain is the only home they have. Many Indian immigrants to Britain hold dual passports, allowing them to return to India if need be. Indigenous British whites (whose ancestors have lived in Britain for 70 years or more) have nowhere else to go. These are the kinds of people whose interests the BNP wish to protect; hence the ethnic restrictions. Otherwise, the BNP would risk becoming just another silly and meaningless rainbow, "stand for nothing" party like New Labour, the Tories, and Liberals.

I understand fully your emphasis on trouble-making Pakistan (and the support given to it by China). Saudi Arabia has worked hard to transform Pakistan into a Jihad colony and Jihad training faculty. Foolish American policies enacted since the 1950s have repeatedly given sustenance to Islamists.

Don't give up on Britain because some young hooligans (who have been badly educated) show rudeness and intolerance towards you. Please encourage your children to reach out. I know it is difficult, as I have experienced racism myself; believe me. But, please try to have faith and seek out the right people to support you. They do exist, but please avoid the Leftist, apologetic sort.

I would have liked to have married my Hindu girl, but a rapidly changing technology scene forced me back to University and full time education (with zero income). She wasn't impressed. I believe her parents secretly wished for a traditional Hindu marriage into a higher caste. She was beautiful, so they had many options. I just wasn't ready when they were ready.

As for your closing paragraph, Bob Don(k)ey has never been correct about anything as far as I (and many others) can tell. The man's a charlatan, an habitual snipe, and a bore. I haven't bothered to read his latest responses as I am confident they will add nothing but obfuscation and insincerity to the debate. He is only complaining of personal trivia because he has just been exposed as a liar and a spreader of unfounded slurs which he has refused to even attempt to substantiate, even though he was considerately given every opportunity. He and his sort are part of the problem, not the solution.

I see a "comments" facility in quite a different light to this. More of a conversation. If people want to write a substantial piece, then good for them. I frankly don't have the time. When I do and have something to say, I'll give it my best shot. In the meantime, when people say something interesting, informative, outrageous, factually incorrect or just plain silly I really don't see how it does any harm to express a view. I do try to say more than just "bunkum!" or "brilliant!".

By the way, the usual definition of a "lurker" is someone who reads blogs and forums but doesn't contribute. At least I can't be fairly accused of that.

And come on, Flanders, the real objection some folk round here have to me is that I don't agree with them. Indeed I'd go so far as to say that some are just a teeny bit scratchy about being contradicted at all. As a rule they're the ones who are quick to accuse others of derangement and mental weakness.

Bob, I understand Missions frustration with you. You are a constant lurker, who rarely has significant beliefs to present regarding an issue. You choose to snipe at some who do take positions from your tower in Relativityland and wait for someone to respond so that you can finally get around to saying some of what you really believe.

I'm not being critical of your beliefs, even though we seem to share some but not all. I do think you should make an effort to be clear and state your beliefs upfront(occasionally at least),instead of sniping at points others have made. You finally make a good response on these posts(though I don't agree with you), and it is good to see your reasoning. I don't understand why you don't place the same effort into your initial comments occasionally without waiting to be "provoked". Being a background sniper and diversionary is not polite either. I'm doing that with this post because you seem not to understand what seems so obvious to others.

contd....

I have always backed tighter immigration controls, specially, primary immigration and asked for an open debate on the issue, I have written to any one who will listen, including M. Thatcher (1981-85), J. Major, T. Blair and recently to Sir Green (MWUK- Wonder why he didn't get the Iron Lady to stem the flow then?) but no one is really interested, they all have their own agendas.

I have advocated the following as my contribution (2p worth) to the debate, if it is in the open and structured, then as you said “Fear not” but it is for all those out there who are in the same situation like my wife etc, now call me selfish, but this is personal.
a/ ‘Status’ is decided once and for all ( Who stays who goes)
b/ ‘Citizenship and Nationality’ engraved in our constitution ( US style Model)
c/ Change in the mind set of both the ‘natives’ and ‘immigrants’
d/ Education to allay fears
e/ Bin ‘Political Correctness’ with a decent citizenship code of conduct
f/ Discard Racial Supremacy on all grounds
g/ Religion to be made a personal and not National issue
h/ Keep Britain a ‘Christian’ country in order to maintain it’s historical identity, but allowing religious freedom of choice (except loony cults)
i/ Have a ‘Traditions’ code for all British citizens to follow based on a middle of the ground mix of good moral and ethical values, as no religion preaches hatred, or disrespect of others (except Islam)
j/ Tighter immigration controls, with time limited ‘work permits’ for all genuine gaps in the labour force
k/ Employers to be made to tow the line
l/ A minimum time limit before issuing permanent citizenship and no provision of any benefits until such status is achieved.( or a system to recoup any assistance provided while not attained status – like students loan)
m/ Employers made to fund the costs relating to infrastructure developments for all immigration required by them.
n/ The Muslim elite to be given a choice whether they want to be British or not and can leave if so wish. ( yes there are decent Muslims too, who are also living in fear from their own kind, they long to integrate but are persecuted, as they are not barbarians and so can’t stand to the threats from the radical thugs I know several personally, and I couldn’t take a sword to them)

o/ All radicals should be sent back to Pakistan without any hesitation and fear of repercussions.
p/ Stop all aid to Pakistan irrelevant of its purpose, as they have billions to spend on Nukes and billions more from Saudi Arabia.

q/ Reject goods made in China to object its support for Pakistan, Something constructive has to be done, China and now Pakistan are taking the proverbial p***, and all we do is keep silent, there are lot of ways to skin a cat, not necessarily in a confrontational way.

I AM NOT A LEFTIE, BUT A REALIST AND A PRAGMATIC SORT > NO WISE CRACKS, JUST FLUSH THEM AND I'LL DO THE SAME.

PS BOB IS RIGHT, IT IS GETTING BOGGED DOWN IN PERSONAL TRIVIA, AND LOSING SUBSTANCE (I WAS JUST AS GUILTY IN THE PAST, BUT HAVE REFORMED NOW).

MI - > I don’t fear the BNP OR RADICAL ISLAM.I have volunteered to stand against Islamic or other atrocities, which would harm either Britain or India.(enough said)

You dated but I married one, and I spend 9 years in India, studying the “Affects of Islam on Indian Culture” and joined the war against Pakistan in 1971, (hence my Indian angle), My Wife and Children had passed the ‘Tebbit’ test before he introduced it and still fly the English/British flag. We are six brothers and three of us are married to Indian ladies (2 Hindus Doctors 1 Sikh). It is they, who constantly get abuse and threats and told to go back to their own countries, they don’t dress like Indians, speak fluent English and take part in all activities and traditions British (My wife is always involved in the local Church activities ) and yet they get it.

During the recent Football W. Cup my wife and son were told to take down the 2 English flags off their car by (two lets call them ‘natives’) as she wasn’t English, when my son intervened and said that he was born here and supports England, he was told, to also go back to his Mother’s country, now do you see why British Born ethnic people have concerns and we accuse them of not integrating, they are confused as to which way to turn, my son is in Neurology, who was so disturbed by this whole incident that it nearly destroyed him.

My wife is a Doctor, who after 20 years, in this country is feeling unwanted and unsafe. Her and my sister in laws’ anxieties are a cause for concern for my family, and when there is all the hype in the Media and Blogs like this, the future to them is uncertain.

The Islamic militants have destroyed a lot of people’s lives not only the ones that they have brutally killed but those who die a thousand death’s daily, ‘the living dead’, a lot of non Islamic immigrants are worried about their future in this country and feel that after 30 -40 years of hard work, it is about to go down the drain and all because they are 'immigrants'(not white) but wouldn't want to be treated as 2nd class citizens either.

WE NEED TO DEAL WITH THIS WHOLE ISSUE OPENLY AND FAIRLY, NO AMOUNT OF HIDING BEHIND THE BLOGS IS GOING TO HELP, AND VIOLENCE AS SOME ADVOCATE, ONLY HURTS THE INNOCENT AND WEAK, SO DOES IT MAKE IT MORALLY RIGHT? I DON'T KNOW.DO WE WANT TO TAKE THIS COUNTRY AND THE REST OF THE WORLD FIGHTING CRUSADES? I DON'T KNOW.....HOPE SANITY PREVAILS.

more....

Continued...

So, Mission Impossible, your example of Malaysia is an interesting one. Of course the most relevant (!) feature of Malaysian politics to discussions here is the rise and rise of Islamic parties, and the development of Sharia law alongside civil law. This is exactly why I don't like political parties which are based on a religious or "racial" exclusivity. They promote disharmony, unrest, hatred and, ultimately, violence. It is "grievance" politics, and nearly always has bad outcomes.

You accuse me of being a "deceitful liar". Could you please point up those statements of mine which you consider to be lies. It's time for you to put up or shut up now. I'm sick of the gratuitous insulting language used on this blog by some of the contributors. Our hosts are always respectful and tolerant of others' views, which unfortunately is not reciprocated by a lot of the guests, and you, Mission Impossible, are one of the main culprits. So come on now, list my lies and deceits.

You further say that I lack the credentials to add anything of value to the debate. As you don't know what my "credentials" are this is a pretty pointless remark. Anyway I didn't know there were prerequisites to being able to have a point of view. You may also have noticed that a lot of my posts are supported by evidence (reference to official statistics, etc).

You also say that I am a narcissistic idiot to put my name to my postings. I really find this quite bizarre, oh Mission Impossible. I've never considered it narcissistic to use one's name. Some might say that to use a name like "Mission Impossible" was a little juvenile in a pompous sort of way, but I couldn't possibly comment... What is your earthly name?

So you think I am "left-wing trash" and that me and my "kind" will "pay a price". In my fairly long and unremarkable life I have found it a good general rule that people who use expressions like this are bigots, and I don't feel this rule is in any way challenged or disproved by the tone and content of your posts here.

(NB I've removed the auto-signature, which to be honest I'd forgotten I'd put there. This shows just how much I'm a flexible, caring and listening sort of person underneath that lying, cheating, deceitful, leftist, Marxist, malicious, idiotic, vandalistic, unconstructive, trashy, evasive shell.)

Well, Mission Impossible, you certainly don't believe in good old-fashioned indigenous British politeness, do you?

Still, ignoring your rudeness for the moment I'll attempt to deal with some of the points you raise.

Your original question was: "Can the BJ's resident hardcore Marxist explain why (he believes) the BNP are racist?"

Let's take out the personal insult and pose it again: "Why do I believe that the BNP are racist?"

I believe it amongst other things because of what they say about genetics and that their mission is stated as follows, "The British National Party exists to secure a future for the indigenous peoples of these islands in the North Atlantic which have been our homeland for millennia. We use the term indigenous to describe the people whose ancestors were the earliest settlers here after the last great Ice Age and which have been complemented by the historic migrations from mainland Europe." This of course is doublespeak for "white" people. Everyone who reads it is expected to realise this. The "white" working-classes who are the main target market for their electioneering know what they are being asked to vote for. So that is why the BNP is racist. They exist to promote the interests of one "racial type". This is so bloody obvious that I don't really understand why we have got bogged down in it.

I am very interested (yawn) to learn of your relationships with a Sikh family, but to be honest this is not relevant to what the BNP believes.

I note with interest your thoughts on genetic markers, and that the "Chinese nation is genetically a very mixed bag". So what does the BNP say about genetics. For example:

"Taking these facts into account, we believe that it is far more likely than not that the historically established tendency (and we do not claim that it is any more than that) of the peoples of Western Europe in general - and of these islands in particular - to create and sustain social and political structures in which individual freedom, equality before the law, private property and popular participation in decision-making, is to some extent at least genetically pre-determined."

Whether I believe that this is preposterous bollocks is beside the point. What matters here is that their politics is fundamentally based on racial and genetic thinking. I totally reject this way of thinking, and prefer to base my politics on ideas of the rights of man, equality before the law, democracy and rationality. See what I missed out? Nothing there about race, creed or colour.

This doesn't make me a Marxist on any definition of Marxism that I could think of. For example I don't believe that the common ownership of the means of production is the best way to organise an economy. I base this not only on what I've read about economics but on a working life spent mainly in the small business sector.

There's more...

Doney ... Unfortunately, 'King Cobra' decided to "enter stage left," add his noisy two-penneth worth, and muddy the waters, which gave you opportunity to do a quick shoe shuffle.

King Cobra (who I assume is a Brit of Indian ethnicity) should not fear the BNP, and should not fear indigenous white Britons. He should just mix in, be British (forget India) and decide when he is ready to take Norman Tebbit's famous cricket allegiance test.

Nonetheless, those of us who are observant would have noticed you (Doney) have evaded answering my simple question on three consecutive occasions.

Your spiel about the ethnic constitution of Britain's past is completely irrelevant. The BNP does not seek to emulate the pure-Germanic ethnicity assessments performed in 1930s Germany, and has not even attempted to do so. If it did, it would lose over 50% of its present support, including mine. During the 1980s I became very close to a Hindu Indian (ex. East African) family who had settled in Britain (after fleeing Idi Amin's Uganda) and they had fitted in very well. I was dating their beautiful daughter. They too were very wary of endless, indiscriminate immigration into Britain. It is also a fact, the BNP consults with Britain's Sikh Community on a regular basis, and for all I know, some Sikhs may already have membership. I would never support a political party that even hinted at expelling the Sikhs from Britain. We already owe that community a lot. They are fine people.

The facts make it clear, the BNP do not go down the pure racist route malicious left-wing idiots like you claim they do.

Your attempt to deflect people away from YOUR failure to explain why the BNP is racist, by quoting the recent survey that identified gene-markers in Britain's population from the Golden Horde (etc.), is another leftist, smoke & mirrors trick. So what? Similar gene markers will be found all over the world. The Chinese nation is genetically, a very mixed bag, but China isn't about to open its doors to all & sundry, give Islam free reign to proselytise, and encourage gays to think they are normal.

A Malay-only (single ethnicity) political party (UMNO) has held power in Malaysia since the early 1970s; despite this, it is still recognized as a full member of the left-wing UN, and without further comment. This despite the fact that 20% or so of the authentic Malaysian population is of Chinese ethnicity.

Not only are you a deceitful liar, Doney, you also lack the credentials to add anything of value to the debate. Only an narcissistic idiot, thinking his opinions are so important, would sign his name within every comment he posted.

Your clear inability to explain your original allegation about the BNP demonstrates you are guilty of using the BJ forum to post calculated, and malicious slurs.

It is left-wing trash like you who have caused great damage to both British (specifically) and Western society generally. You are all for throwing around malicious allegation after malicious allegation because in truth that is all you are capable of; you have nothing constructive to offer. Mark my words, one fine day, you and your kind will pay a price for your cultural vandalism.

I'm glad you see fit to agree, Bob.  This post is for any place with unwanted immigration.

We have the blood from all those struggles of the past in us and it is time there was at least one party to represent us.  Instead, they choose to represent those who travel from where they have fought against us and among each other for their thousands of years.  It is time they return to their tribes.  They do not respect our customs or institutions except the ones who hand them benefits or jobs which are for us and our blood.
 
It is time it is recognized that we are the ones whose voice is to be heard.  I don't care if they have majorities of votes, by rights given to them by machination of unscrupulous politicians, not earned by them by good citizenship. They have not had long-term residence, they have not taken reasonable steps to assimilate, nor do they renounce the violence perpetuated by those with whom they identify with by choice.  They are the ones who are attempting to change our way of life and they do not have that right.  They are here by invitation of others than us or by means which are of no consequence to us.  They accept manipulation by our governments for their benefit and the benefit of officials who do not deserve to represent us or our governments. Their numbers are so great that our society is forever changed for us and our lawful heirs, our children and grandchildren and their progeny.  It is past time for them AND our governments to change!

It is time for ALL the parties to represent us.

First there was the Celts and the Picts, then the Mediterranean traders who came across from Britanny, then the Romans and their mongrel legions (few hundred years of that), then the Angles, Jutes, Vikings, Saxons, then the Normans (and you know where they came from, don't you?), then Dutch, Walloons, Portuguese, and always Irish, Irish and more Irish, then slaves and ex-slaves from the colonies, and Indians, lots of them, oh, forgot about the Italians in Shakespeare's time, and gypsies, thousands of them, then the Huguenots (few more than 50,000 I think you'll find, and the first came in the sixteenth century), seamen from all over, yes all over, lots more Italians, hence the great ice cream you can get in Scotland, Jews in, Jews out, shake 'em all about, Jews back again, this time to stay, then the West Indians, plenty of them carrying naughty genes from the slave owners and all the rest, then the Bengalis, the East African Asians, the East African Africans, and, well, you know the rest I suppose. But bear in mind any of those that came from Eastern Europe for the last few hundred years probably had plenty of Mongol genes - the Great Horde stopped for bed and breakfast you know. So apart from these BLIPS and a few others, WE ARE THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE AND WE WANT THE BNP TO LOOK AFTER US.

Thanks for listening.

Bob Doney

Question?
How do you define:  A way to suppress free speech
 
Answer
Passing a law making speech criminal
 
Question?
What color is rascist speech
 
Answer
Any color they want it to be
 
Question?
Is it the speech that makes the crime
 
Answer
It is the people suppressing the speech who are committing the crime

Read the 2nd one

"racism