Disinformation about Belgium, Again
From the desk of The Brussels Journal on Thu, 2007-11-08 14:58
A quote from the Open Europe Press Summary, 8 November 2007
A committee in the Belgian parliament (solely composed of Flemish delegates, after Francophones walked out) has voted for the partition of Bruxelles-Hal-Vilvorde, an electoral district which has been the centre of controversy for decades on account of being the only officially bilingual part of the country, and where citizens could vote both for both Flemish and Walloon parties. The move means that 120,000 – 150,000 Francophones will not be able to vote for French speaking candidates. Marathon coalition talks to form a national government have been suspended.
A quote from Luc Van Braekel at The Brussels Journal, 6 November 2007
The latter ["This will rob 120,000 French-speakers of the right to vote for Francophone parties in parliamentary elections"] is not true. Even after the split of BHV the French-speaking inhabitants of Flemish Brabant will be able to vote for French-speaking candidates, but only for French-speaking lists presented in their own constituency, and not for French-speaking politicians who are candidates in Brussels (these include some of Belgium’s Francophone political leaders).
And what would happen ...
Submitted by Aisling on Sat, 2007-11-10 12:22.
... if spraynasal's "majority of the population speaks another language" reasoning were applied, logically and consistently, all across the board in Europe? There are quite a few areas in central Italy, in France and in Spain where the majority of residents are Brits. How would the locals react if these expatriates started demanding the "right" to change the official language to English? And closer to home: there are several areas in Brussels where the majority of residents are immigrants. Are we to change Sint-Joost-ten-Noode from an administratively bilingual French-Dutch municipality into an administratively bilingual Turkish-Arabic one?
As regards the "movement of a free market": it's true the Flemish freely sold their houses and lands to these people. (That's why I believe the Flemish regional governement would have been, and still would be, fully justified in limiting such freedom and imposing stringent language tests on prospective buyers). But if you like the free market so much, spraynasal, how about applying free market principles to Wallonia, instead of distorting the same market by having the Flemish taxpayers subsidise the lazy layabouts of Liège and Charleroi? Interesting, isn't it, how the Francophones apply "principles" only when it suits them to do so.
As regards the "Vlaams Belang brothers" nonsense: oh please. Wake up. Anybody in Belgium who opposes Francophone supremacism is immediately branded as a Vlaams Belang supporter. It's just sooo stupid, spraynasal. So depressingly predictable. With attitudes like yours, it's not surprising French-speaking Belgium is going down the drain, politically and culturally, at the rate we are witnessing right now.
Down the drain?
Submitted by spraynasal on Sat, 2007-11-10 16:17.
1. I would like to point out that the French-speaking Belgium is starting to grow again, and faster than Flanders, even if we have a long way to go. Besides that, the socialists are no more the dominant political force in Wallonia, since the last elections. Socialists have been the first party in Wallonia from 1890 to 2007, but now they have finally been beaten and this is new and encouraging.
2. "Vlaams Belang Brothers"...I refer to the public positions of the administrators of this blog, who don't make a mystery of it. I didn't write it as an infamous brand. Really...is it stupid to call a cat a cat?
3. Regarding the principle of the "language of the majority", the suburbs of Brussels are not comparable to villages in Perigord or Costa del Sol, or to Turkish or Moroccan migration in Brussels: We have in Brussels a natural movement of expansion of a big city. Now if you set the borders according to today's realities, you could successfully prevent a further extension of the French-speaking areas around Brussels. The problem is that you want the borders where they were...one century ago.
4. And your requests of language testing for the prospective buyers around Brussels are exactly the kind of thought that we are ready to fight against, with the help of nationals and international laws.
5. Flanders should defend Flemish interest where the Flemish are, and not focus obsessionally on territories that are now claiming their appartenance to Brussels. And Flemish independentists should stop keeping Brussels as their capital. It's like if the Finnish where keeping their government in St Petersburg, because the russians under Peter the Great took these territories from the Kingdom of Sweden...
@spraynasal
Submitted by USAntigoon on Sat, 2007-11-10 17:16.
Your arrogance is just pathetic... and with due respect, you just hate the Flemish..Keep them on the farm and let us govern Brussels, we know how to do this because we have the "blue blood"..
Flemish have Antwerpen,
Submitted by spraynasal on Sat, 2007-11-10 17:34.
Flemish have Antwerpen, Gent, Brugge, Zeebrugge, the seaside, a rich history...all these cultural and economic advantages, an original language (that I speak, but not as well as English) a rich cultural heritage and a wealthy ecomomy.
I don't know why you consider arrogant the idea that Brussels should be governed by the people from Brussels.
If you want to "keep" Brussels, then keep Belgium alive ! But you can't have your cake and eat it...The Flemish government is in Brussels because Flemish are still Belgians...
Otherwise, a flemish government of Brussels would be a form of foreign domination.
By the way, my family is also partly Flemish.
@ spraynasal
Submitted by traveller on Sat, 2007-11-10 19:21.
I agree fully that Flanders leaves Brussels alone, in it's present borders. Forget about the other territories, they are flemish, full stop. The reason you want the flemish communities is that a european and a european bureaucrat can still live there, in a nice peaceful environment.
You have completely mismanaged Brussels with your socialist foreign electoral legions for your NINETEEN brussels city-governments(for a city off less than 600.000 inhabitants).
Brussels is so badly managed and riddled with crime that no middle-income person wants to live in that city anymore, that's why you moved to Flanders and your imperialist style makes you think we will let you f..k up Flanders also. Stay in Brussels please and forget about us, we have already forgotten about you.
@spraynasal
Submitted by USAntigoon on Sat, 2007-11-10 19:07.
Otherwise, a Flemish government of Brussels would be a form of foreign domination.
This is a page out of the "Royal Palace" briefing book..!!!!!!
@spraynasal
Submitted by Brigands on Fri, 2007-11-09 19:23.
Those areas belong to the Flemish region, are thus 'Flemish'. NOTHING prevents your Embassy or Consulate to offer assistance/support to its citizens when dealing with the Flemish administration. In fact the Spanish Consulate in Antwerp has been allowed to do just that.
Internal borders and State borders are different concepts
Submitted by spraynasal on Fri, 2007-11-09 23:54.
...When the administrative borders in and around Brussels have been settled in 1962, these were - and are still - administrative borders, not state borders.
Now if Flanders at some point secede from Belgium, there is no reason that the borders around Brussels follow another pattern than the law of the majority. Flanders should take the municipalities where flemish are the majority today and nobody is bound to consider a territory as Flemish-only because flemish was spoken there...100 years ago. Flemish is respectable and will be respected, but won't have a kind of exclusivity right in the area of the capital or Europe.
In Brussels and around Brussels, Flemish may have the right to impose the rule of the majority, and the flemish language, WHERE THEY ARE MAJORITY, but please, elsewhere, get off... It's just plain common sense. Nobody has expelled the Flemish from Brussels. If they have sold their lands and their houses to other populations, and as a result the borders have changed, that's life, and there is no conspiracy against anyone. It's just the movement of the free market...
Do you think that measures against the freedom of populations around Brussels would not be followed by hostility against Flemish insterests and institutions in Brussels? Think twice. For the first time this week, sadly, the Flemish parliament in Brussels has been covered with anti-flemish slogans. Brussels is not a monolingual area. In defending the diversity of Brussels territory - and the right to be an officially bilingual territory - we will be supported by EU institutions.
I know you don't like them very much...But neither do they like you, Vlaams Belang brothers! I know also you won't like my views very much...but we often learn more from our opponents than from our supporters.
@ spraynasal
Submitted by USAntigoon on Sat, 2007-11-10 01:09.
Attitudes and mentalities like yours are just the reason why Flemish people are so upset about the "French" arrogance. We are dirt in your eyes, we are just uneducated little pig farmers... The Flemish are good enough to support the "rest" of Belgium...
Anyway, I am a US citizen and I wish you well over there..But I will never deny my Flemish roots..
Brussels the capital of Europe,..and the Flemish people are not allowed to have a exclusive right in the area. ....keep on drinking this Europe Kool-aid and you will become even more neurotic..
I feel sorry for you and your parochial mentality.....
Typical Francophone hypocrisy
Submitted by Aisling on Fri, 2007-11-09 18:46.
Speaking as a non-Belgian, I've got this to say: nobody is forcing anybody to settle in Flanders, including the "facilities" areas. Those who CHOOSE to do so presumably know quite well that the official language there is Dutch. If they don't like it, if they are not prepared to learn Dutch, they should go and live somewhere else. Period.
I am getting sick to the back teeth of all these arrogant little shits, be they French-speaking Belgians, international residents or EU officials, who behave like colonizers, refuse to learn anything about Flanders, its language and culture, and yet do not hesitate to spout mindless ignorant clichés about "les flamands". Problem is, the Flemish have far too much patience. When, oh when, are they going to tell all these racist morons to get stuffed and clear out of Flemish areas?
Flemish Must be Protected
Submitted by letthefrogscroak on Thu, 2007-11-08 23:17.
If you are going to advocate cultural diversity, then you should support measures protecting the Dutch language in Belgium since it is threatened and the linguistic border has been constantly receding in the past two centuries since the creation of Belgium.
But, of course, you're not really for cultural diversity, nasalspray, right?
It is just about furthering your francophone agenda, isn't it?
Another mistake
Submitted by Brigands on Thu, 2007-11-08 19:31.
"an electoral district which has been the centre of controversy for decades on account of being the only officially bilingual part of the country".
Brussels Capital Region is administered bilingually. BHV is not 'a officially bilingual part of the country', never has been!
"Mistakes" or pedagogical wishful thinking?
Submitted by spraynasal on Thu, 2007-11-08 20:59.
The area around Brussels is heavily populated not only with french-speaking residents but also with international residents, many public officers of the European Union, who would prefer to have their area of residence not officially monolingual flemish...How long Flanders will keep trying to pretend that areas like St Genesius Rhode, Linkebeek or Kraainem are "monolingual flemish-speaking areas", I don't know. But I know that the international world will be on the side of advocates of realism and respect for cultural diversity.