Israel: A Partner of Flanders, Not of Wallonia
From the desk of The Brussels Journal on Wed, 2007-11-14 00:25
A quote from Jehudi Kinar, departing Israeli Ambassador to Belgium, in the Dutch-language Jewish monthly Joods Actueel, November 2007:
With regard to [Belgian] politics Israel has most problems with the Socialists, especially the Francophone PS [Parti Socialiste]. There are many examples of this. While [Dutch-speaking] Flanders has bilateral economic and cultural treaties with Israel the PS refuses to ratify these treaties in [French-speaking] Wallonia and [bilingual] Brussels.
Atheling # 3
Submitted by marcfrans on Wed, 2007-11-14 21:53.
@ Atheling
As you can see from his last posting, and despite his frequent Breton-inspired railing against the French Republic, Armor appears in fact to be culturally more 'French' (in his cultural disdain for Americans) than he seems to realise.
Racism and authoritarian attitudes tend to go together. So, it shouldn't be surprising that we encounter them as such in a number of 'rightist' Europeans on this website. I can recall as a college student in the 1960's, encountering African foreign students who would tell me that their counterparts at Lumumba university in Moscou or at various European universities (in former colonial powers) faced much more severe racism than their counterparts in the US.
Disdain for 'democracy', i.e. for the people's sovereignty, easily translates into disdain for 'other people'. After all, if you do not respect the 'will' of your fellow citizens, as expressed through democratic institutions, how could you possibly respect others (foreigners and other-looking people) as 'equals'?
@marcfrans
Submitted by atheling on Wed, 2007-11-14 22:11.
Indeed, the "fascist" in Armor just keeps peeking through...
@atheling
Submitted by RS on Wed, 2007-11-14 20:39.
Atheling, I agree with the rest of your post contra Armor -- and thank you for posting what you said -- but disagree with your Parthian shot:
No wonder you Euros are in the pickle you're in.
We Americans have no monopoly on republican sentiment. The Revolt of the Netherlands was an inspiration to Americans and some of its ideas are reflected in our Declaration of Independence. I support The Brussels Journals' fight for Flemish independence and for a "Europe of the nations" -- not the EU. That is a republican fight.
Both sides of the Deep Blue are fighting a tough rearguard action against their respective political elites and the media they control. "Armor" doesn't necessarily speak for republican Europeans any more than Charles Johnson for American conservatives.
Treaties
Submitted by Luc Van Braekel on Wed, 2007-11-14 16:58.
@HenrikRClausen:
from www.flanders.be :
Sounds like a good idea to me :)
Submitted by RS on Wed, 2007-11-14 16:37.
HenrikRClausen writes:
Next, we'll hear "Flanders, which still constitutes a part of Belgium, has joined NATO" or something :)
As John Adams famously remarked, the American Revolution -- independence from Britain -- first took place in people's minds. The rest followed naturally from this.
I'm sure something similar characterized the Revolt of the Netherlands. The EU is the new Habsburg dynasty -- but where is its Alva?
independence
Submitted by Armor on Wed, 2007-11-14 17:46.
RS: "the American Revolution -- independence from Britain -- first took place in people's minds"
It first took place in only a few people's minds. They had to do some anti-British provocation and wait for the reprisals so as to get other people involved. This American agitation was only made possible by the large autonomy England had already given you. In return for London's tolerance, you gave Britain a bloody war. They should have been stricter with you.
@Armor
Submitted by atheling on Wed, 2007-11-14 19:30.
Ever hear of "taxation without representation"?
More than "a few people's minds" were dissatisfied with such a form of tyranny.
Secondly, your support of monarchy over democracy only proves that you prefer authoritarian government over consensus government.
No wonder you Euros are in the pickle you're in.
@Atheling
Submitted by Armor on Wed, 2007-11-14 21:27.
atheling: "Ever hear of "taxation without representation"?
I have heard that slogan before, but I bet most Americans by 1776 had still not heard of it.
"your support of monarchy over democracy only proves that you prefer authoritarian government over consensus government."
I think the King of England was honestly trying to protect America's best interests, and I am not sure if Americans are mature enough to handle democracy. At least, it is a consensus in france that most Americans are little more than children, politically speaking.
Of course, the situation is altogether different in Flanders. Their desire for freedom is entirely legitimate.
@Armor
Submitted by atheling on Wed, 2007-11-14 21:54.
"it is a consensus in france that most Americans are little more than children, politically"
And the French are not? Excuse me, but the socialist nanny state you live in CREATES infantilism, an infection which crossed the Atlantic and has metatasized in the halls of academia and journalism in America. Since you get most of your information from a biased and jaded media, your perception of America and Americans is dead wrong.
You fail to note the American icon which you Euros are so quick to mock: the "cowboy" or "redneck", who is suspicious of government, prefers independence, and is quick to stand up for his rights and beliefs when they are infringed upon. Those men (and women) are hardly "infantile"; indeed, they are the backbone of America and you will find most of them between the two coasts. It is that same pioneering, "rugged individualist" attitude that they harbor which many Euros like to deride.
So don't give me that crap about "maturity" when you folks can't make a living without the government giving you handouts and mollycoddling you to the grave.
and another thing...
Submitted by Armor on Wed, 2007-11-14 22:08.
What was your idea of buying Louisiana from a foreign dictator, together with the cattle and the people living in it? Is that your idea of "American democracy"? It is no better than buying Kurdistan from Saddam Hussein! If you had any decency, you would give back Louisiana to its rightful owners at once. And in the same state it was when you "bought" it from Napoleon!
If America had any decency...
Submitted by Quijybo on Thu, 2007-11-15 02:27.
...we would not only NOT return Louisiana, but we would make an "offer" to Quebec for the areas currently known as Canada. In keeping with the Louisiana precedent, Ontario can keep the Canada name.
Good buy
Submitted by atheling on Wed, 2007-11-14 22:10.
That purchase was a great buy - even better than "Seward's Folly".
I hope it makes you stew!
@Atheling
Submitted by Armor on Wed, 2007-11-14 22:21.
Stop paying attention to every piece of rubbish I write.
I was only trying to annoy RS.
Then you took his defense, so I had to try and annoy you too.
No offense meant!
Flanders?
Submitted by HenrikRClausen on Wed, 2007-11-14 14:08.
Is it just me, or is there something unusual about this:
"Flanders has bilateral economic and cultural treaties with Israel."
'bilateral'?
Next, we'll hear "Flanders, which still constitutes a part of Belgium, has joined NATO" or something :)