Duly Noted: The Greatest Damage to the Greatest Number

From the desk of George Handlery on Sat, 2008-12-06 08:30

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George Handlery about the week that was. NATO split or only divided? Patterns of modernization: by whom and for what purpose. Gypsies against crime. Criminal victims of crime. The Enlightenment’s tradition and its implication. 9/11 and the guilt of the victims.
 
1. An understandable concern of the eastern half of the Atlantic World is its relationship to Russia. The more so since Russia is undergoing a mutation. Whatever emerges will largely determine her intentions and therefore set the parameters within which the relationship will have to unfold. In this regard, the conversation tends to shift to cautionary reservations. These ponder what Russia’s direct and indirect neighbors need to avoid in order not to antagonize her. While this makes some sense the depiction of the problem – wrong policies provoke Angst and that hostility – misses a point. It is that Russia’s vigorously communicated intransigence is allowed to net rewards that would not be extended to pure diplomacy. In the case of the Ukraine’s and Georgia’s NATO membership a middle way between the demonstration of resolution and capitulation has been agreed upon. Eventually, the two can become members. However, in response to Western Europe’s wishes, the admission procedure will not be shortened. In addition, NATO will resume its discussions about a “strategic partnership” with Russia. The interruption came about because of Georgia. So, as things stand, Russia is not getting everything it wants regarding membership and the content of talks. This means that NATO is not split (as Russia has trumpeted the situation for PR purposes) but it is divided.
 
2. On its way to success, the West has often been in danger of permanently succumbing to the temptation of a “developmental dictatorship”. The typical enticing promise was a benign dictator able to speed up change that brings with it the improvement of daily life. At the same time, a system commanded by a strong center and a Leader was supposed to protect its subjects from the threat the New. In the case of Russia, systems of this kind have prevailed. They also contributed to her success by the norms the majority defined the term. The definition’s center piece was military parity or superiority relative to the leading powers. The tendency to rely on directives providing autocratic short-cut solutions to modernity – especially its military aspects – has survived the Marxist experiment. Putinism is a product of the temptation and the tradition to resort to a progressive autocracy.
 
3. Europe’s stability and peace depends significantly on her treatment of minorities that are located within her constituent states. Regrettably, the EU feels inclined to place its greatest emphasis on preserving the integrity and full sovereignty of national states. Here a very narrow definition of the term is used even though few countries are in reality ethnically homogeneous. Therefore, dealing with minority grievances enjoys no high priority – it is often regarded as an inconvenient distraction – even though the minority of a country might be a majority in another one. This condition can lead to the internationalization of internal problems. Beyond the human rights aspects of the minority problem, a related issue is democracy and internal stability. Both of these might be superseded by the international complications that internally mishandled minority conflicts can cause between states. Refusing to hear and arbitrate the case of pressured minorities might please the representatives of the states against whom complaints might be directed. Succumbing to the temptation “to keep the matter quiet” and to equate the demand for collective rights with secessionism is a form of appeasement that is unlikely to cure the ailment. In fact, a conspiracy of silence encourages states that are inclined to do so, to assimilate coercively their minorities before the time to do so runs out.
 
4. On 18 November, the news of a crime made the pages of the foreign affairs sections of the world press. In the Hungarian city of Pécs, a grenade thrown into the living room of a Gypsy couple killed the parents and left their children injured. The police quickly indicated that it is suspecting normal criminality and not racial crime. The representatives of the Roma reacted that racial crime is in the interest of the folks they represent. Therefore, the incident must have been racism in action. Indeed, if the matter was carried abroad, it was presented as evidence of nasty Nazis lurking around. Actually, the police are a state organ and the Socialists run the state. Considering that the Gypsies are core supporters of the left, furthermore, adding the benefits of smearing “the other side”, the “organs” had every reason to put the blame on racism. They did not. Since then it became public that the casualties were involved in usurious lending – involving the forceful collection of debts. The victim also operated whorehouses and got involved in the fight to determine who controls the turf. What the case teaches us is that, as so often, not everything that looks like something is necessarily what it appears to be.
 
5. Good news from the majority-minority front. Ethnic problems require more than the accommodation of minorities through the recognition of their collective rights by the majority. All too often minority problems are complicated by the categorical rejection of the minority of the majority’s state, its system, language, laws, customs and way of life. Regrettably, the problem with the stateless but universally present Gypsies in central and east central Europe issues from the applicability of this generalization. From a “front” that is normally rich in bad news, a healthy initiative can be reported. In Hungary non-leftist Gypsies are trying to set up an organization that aims to reduce through self-policing the criminality committed by members of their ethnic group. Anyone able to produce a “good conduct certificate” (testifying that the person receiving it has not been charged with crimes) is eligible for membership. The positive about this is that here a minority that is widely regarded as crime-prone, acts autonomously to improve itself. Unwisely, existing and well connected Roma organizations tend to connect crime-fighting to racially motivated actions directed against their members or as attempts to paralyze their “culture”. Self-policing is the kind of self-help that can raise a group to the level of the majority surrounding it not by demanding support but by autonomous problem solving.
 
6. American, and to a lesser degree English affairs are, even though everybody is convinced to know everything about them, widely misunderstood. This misunderstanding gain in significance through the illusion of being properly informed which makes the evaluation of facts that contradict the preconceptions difficult. A fundamental cause of knowledgeable misjudgment is that the Enlightenment is the basis of the current stage of the Atlantic Civilization. Only that the Continent goes back to the ultimately revolutionary French Enlightenment and not to the one that had evolved in the English tradition. In France in 1789, a new social order “had” to be created. Its precondition was the smashing of the institutional order through which the social order expressed itself. In North America, a satisfactory social order and a successful society existed before ’76. The problem was that the political order did not measure up to what society had generated. The precondition of achieving this was mainly a reform – and not really a revolution. Its purpose had been to free the social order and to extend its sway on the existing political institutions. It tuned out that his could only be done at the expense of King George who incorporated the main impediment to modernization. Furthermore, economic well being – or the hope to achieve it – did not presuppose taking something away from someone else but could be achieved by ones own actions. In this situation, freedom and well-being became interrelated. This explains much about why the once Communist ruled bigger half of Europe is having problems to democratize itself.
 
7. Which way does the needle point? The types that get ambassadorial appointments reveal much about the real orientation of Presidents. Charles Gati might get the job in Budapest. He has the full support of the Socialists. It is worth a lot. After all, their approval rating soars at about 20%. They are destined to lose the next election with flying colors. The decision must have come about by re-writing Jeremy Bentham’s motto to become “the greatest damage to the greatest number”.
 
8. In total amazement, the writer forgot the source. The cause of the stupefaction is a new twisted story surrounding 9/11. The best-publicized tale regarding that event is the allegation that the CIA had plotted the mayhem. It then warned the Jews working in the Twin Towers not to go to work that day. Nothing is impossible and proving that is that someone has managed to carry this story further. It goes like this: the tale about an American conspiracy might be correct or incorrect. Regardless of the merits of either case, the very fact that the story sells in the Muslim world proves something. It demonstrates that these people have been, and are being, abused and injured by American/Israeli policies. If it would not be so, the account would not be acceptable to them. Therefore the “guilt” and the share of 9/11s victims in their tragedy is established. Naturally, some elements of this thesis would fly if the case would be made with a different emphasis. It could be argued that the willingness to believe an absurdity indicates that those accepting it as fact are, for whatever reason, bitter and hostile. Whether they are antagonistic because they had been wantonly mistreated or because they are in search of a good excuse to mobilize for a politically unattainable goal remains, in this case, an open issue.

Part II Kapitein Andre

Submitted by W. Lindsay Wheeler on Thu, 2008-12-11 16:12.

Now to another blithering idiocy of Kapitein Andre. He rails against "caste-riven and authoritarian societies".

Ever read Georges Dumezil, Kapitein Andre? Ever heard of him? Georges Dumezil pointed out a very interesting racial trait of Indo-European people---Trifunctionality. How European races form caste systems wherever they go. My Catholic teacher, Fr. Boniface Lukyxs points out this very concept of Georges Dumezil in the formation of Christianity and talked mightly of the inculturation of Hellenization, of Europeanization, of Hellenization of Christianity. And Fr. Boniface was a Liturgical expert, fluent in 12 languages, photographic memory and quite the Christian saint. (and he certainly did not read Prof. Ehrlich's book)

That is why the Apostolic Christian Church has a tripartite hierarchy that so conveniently was destroyed by the judiazing Christian heretics of the Protestant Reformation. Prof. Mendle points out the Dumezil Trifunctionality in Anglo-Saxon England. (Dangerous Positions; Mixed Government, the Estates of the Realm, and the Making of the "Answer to the xix propositions") The Greeks and the Romans had this tendency as well as the Gauls did. Caste is central to European societies!

Why is that?

Because central to European thought is the concept of """ORDER"""".

Inherent in the European mind is Order. The European Orders his society. All European societies grew up with castes.  Order presupposed Heirarchy, caste. It was Rousseau that wanted to kill the caste system.

Furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church teaches what is central about humanity, "Man is more stupid, than Wicked".  If man is Stupid, and God realizes that, (hint, that is why Jesus called men "sheep", the stupidiest animals of the domesticated variety), God created "Authority" as in the Church, to protect Man from himself!

The European thrives on Authority. European culture, Traditional and Custom, has been "Order" and "Authority". European culture is inherently Patriarchical, hence it is Authoritarian.

These concepts and inherent racial European traits were targeted by the Enlightenment for deconstruction so that "New modes and Orders" would take ground for a Novus Ordo.

Kapitein Andre really doesn't know anything. He is a judiazer as well. Attacking the Greeks is the standard modus operandi of Judiazers. Judiazing has been condemned and anathematized by the Ecumenical Church councils. Christianity is a Greek religion. Roman Catholicism is thoroughly European.  The concept of the Trinity is thoroughly European as well as Jesus Christ as fully God and Fully man, the Golden Mean, are thoroughly Indo-European concepts---not Semitic concepts. Really, the Brussells Journal needs to advertise itself as "The Voice of the Enlightenment in Europe". Do so and I will leave you alone. Continue to use the word 'conservative' and label yourselves conservative, and I will hammer you everyday. Because you ain't what you say you are. Truth. Truth is a FAITHFUL representation and to label what goes on here as "conservative" is laughable and a lie. The Enlightenment is Anti-European. Give it up or embrace it but recognize the Enlightenment for what it is--an Atheist, Masonic rebellion against Christendom and the Greco-Roman heritage of Europe. Either be a conservative European or an Enlightenment ideologue, but one can't be both. (hint: Paramenides principle of non-contradiction, central to European thought of Logic).

Greek Myth

Submitted by Capodistrias on Thu, 2008-12-11 18:10.

"Heresy is the dislocation of some complete and self-supporting scheme by the introduction of a novel denial of some essential part therein." - H. Belloc "The Great Heresies" 1938

Christianity minus Judaism equals ???

Those Judiazers must be watched. They already snuck in the OT, a Jewish Mother, A Founder i.e The Messiah, 12 Apostles, a St. Paul and a pear tree. Enough to drive the Gods mad. Hemlock anyone?

conservative

Submitted by peter vanderheyden on Thu, 2008-12-11 16:34.

"Either be a conservative European or an Enlightenment ideologue, but one can't be both. (hint: Paramenides principle of non-contradiction, central to European thought of Logic)."

This is hardly a good example of PNC. What is at stake here is "who is the owner of the term 'conservative'". And what do we want to conserve anyway?
Mister Wheeler wants to go back to the Greek era to find something worth conserving, Well he is willing to accept the Christian extension of this era, but then purified from all Judaic influences (a rather impossible task, if you ask me.) A lot of BJ’ers are a bit more moderate. Going back till the pre- French and American Revolution area seems sufficient to them.

I leave you guys to it. I don't feel particularly concerned.

Kapitein Andre Takes the Cake

Submitted by W. Lindsay Wheeler on Thu, 2008-12-11 15:59.

Kapitein Andre takes the cake. I mean he is the shining example of the total ignorance and incompetency and total disunity within Western culture. And it sounds as if Kapitein Andre is a Protestant. Only Protestants are the ones that complain about those "pagan" Greeks. Protestants as Judiazers, seek to strip Western culture of the Hellenistic heritage and foundation. See they use the word "pagan" to deconstruct them, to de-legitimize them.

 Werner Jaeger, one of the greatest German classicists, wrote that Europe is Hellenocentric (Paideia, Vol I, pg xv). Werner Jaeger writes again, "And it was ultimately in the form of paideia, 'culture', that the Greeks bequeathed the whole achievement of the Hellenic mind to the other nations of antiquity. Augustus envisaged the task of the Roman Empire in terms of Greek culture. Without Greek cultural ideas, Greco-Roman civilization would not have been a historical unity, and the culture of the western world would never have existed." (pg xvii).

In Vol II, he writes "...the vast historical proces by which Christianity was Hellenized and Hellenic civilization became Christianized." (Paideia, Vol II, pg xi).

Now, Prof. Jerry Dell Ehrlich wrote a whole book on this "vast historical processs" and he titles it "Plato's Gift to Christianity, The Gentile Preparation for thethe Making of the Christian Faith". He expressly details how in 429 pages, Plato's thought formed and laid the groundwork for Christianity. Jesus Christ said himself to his fellow Jews, "That the Faith will BE TAKEN AWAY FROM YOU and given to another race (ethni)". Prof. Ehrlich does not quote or mention Werner Jaeger at all, but he mentions countless other sources.

Kapitein Andre is slandering the Hellenic patrimony for he is seeking to Judiaze Western Culture. Judiaze Christianity and one Judiazes Western Civilization. To do that one must deconstruct the Ancient Greeks, slander them as "pagans" and for "pagans" it actually means Europeans. What is dangerous is that the Greeks were foundations and cornerstone of Western Culture and Civilization and Christianity, strip them from our thought, and Western Culture and traditional orthodox Christianity is destroyed.

Prof. Bernard Knox, in his book, "The Oldest Dead White European Males" points out to Europe's foundation with the Greeks. What is important to note is Machiavelli's, Hobbes', Nietzsche's, utter disgust for the ancient Greeks, especially Socrates. Hobbes hated Aristotle. The Renaissance had a love of the Greeks and Romans. The Enlightenment had a hatred of them; oh, they may have professed a certain gratitude for the Greco-Roman heritage, but they were the great dissimulators, saying one thing but doing another--great students of the Double Mind.

@ W. Lindsay Wheeler

Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Thu, 2008-12-11 03:24.

Hellenic intellectual traditions differ markedly from Christian ones. Selectively choosing tracts from the works of Greek philsophers - some of whom argued for caste-riven and authoritarian societies - to support a Hobbesian "commonwealth" is ludicrous. If you are citing their arguments against democracy, then you might as well cite any National Socialist or Marxist-Leninist.

 

Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn conveniently omitted the centuries of savage atrocities under the auspices of Christian - including Catholic - monarchs. Indeed, the 17th century is no less such a horrific century: one of "gibbets", "gunpowder" and "gangrapes". Were I not held to the alliterative styling, I might continue ad nauseum.

 

You conveniently omit Conservatism's origins in the preservation of institutions such as the church (not to be confused with religiousity itself), monarchy and aristocracy.

 

Moreover, Sparta was a pagan, totalitarian and militaristic society that in fact institutionalized homosexuality within its army for the purposes of unit cohesion. Or did you think "300" covered it all?

 

The religious convictions of Brussels Journal commentators is none of your concern. However, if you are indeed Catholic, you are in dire need of a Sunday School refresher at the very least. Referencing von Kuehnelt-Leddihn is not the same as attending a seminary...

@the Atheists

Submitted by W. Lindsay Wheeler on Thu, 2008-12-11 00:37.

Why atheists contribute and speak on conservative website is another ludicrious position.

The father of Western philosophy, the father of Western Thought is Socrates. Him and his student Plato fought the nihilist elements in the Athens of his day. Socrates and Plato were both God-believers, they were natural monotheists that laid the groundwork for Christianity. Socrates may also be said to be the Father of Conservativism. For he fought the nihilism of democratic capitalist Athens.

In the Laws, Plato called for Atheists to be separated from society, and reeducation directed to them. If they did not change, they were put under the death penalty. As then, is now, Atheists are dangerous to society. The Enlightenment is the Atheist rebellion against Christendom. It has only spawned, as Eric von Kuenhelt-Leddihn labelled, the two centuries following the American Revolution and French Revolution as the "Centuries of the G's", "guillotines, gaols, gallows, gas chambers, and gulags".

Atheism is not conservative nor anyplace normal in the human psyche. Humans are naturally religious for all humans have a soul. Atheists are fools as the Bible says, "Only a fool in his heart says there is no God". How can a fool be a conservative? Conservativism is about Wisdom. Wisdom is the Knowledge of Divine and Human things and their causes. To not believe in God and his revelation to mankind is automatically disqualifies anybody atheist to be a conservative. It is absolutely moronic.  No one can look upon reality and see no God. Conservativism is based on Truth and Wisdom. Truth being a "Faithful representation of reality". On both counts of Truth and Wisdom, an Atheist automatically disqualifies himself.  Atheists as conservatives is an oxymoron. No society has  been atheistic except in recent times. And secular societies are Atheistic regimes. America as a Secular regime is at essence an Atheistic regime.

A true conservative Society was Sparta. Atheists were not allowed within the boundaries of the city and if found out, were escorted out. 

So I am not going to be given "a talkin' to" or "this is the thing" by a bunch of atheists. Atheists are not Europe, are not in Western Culture or in Western civilization. They are on the fringe, in ancient times and throughout history. Their goal is the destruction of Christendom. And now, some posters here are trying to marginalize a traditionalist Catholic? On a conservative website? That is not conservative, that is deconstructionism.  Can you seperate a plant from water? Can you seperate a human being from his Creator? The Atheist position is untenable, unreasonable, and suicidal. Europe has suffered enough from Atheists. Under Atheists rule, Europe has only undergone pain and death.

The Glory of Europe has been her Faith. The Brussells Journal as the "voice of conservativism of Europe"---Bah-humbug. How about that False advertising about this website?

An 'Atheist 'Responds

Submitted by Capodistrias on Thu, 2008-12-11 01:35.

God Bless ya, you raving lunatic. I know you mean well, but it's hard to have a rational discussion, debate with someone who redefines every term raised in some mystical, idiosyncratic manner which would leave even Benedict himself scratching his head.

BTW, you do a real disservice to Belloc dragging him into your rants.

What makes a society

Submitted by W. Lindsay Wheeler on Wed, 2008-12-10 13:02.

Thanks for that info Atlantist.

 Aristotle noted, "A collection of persons all alike does not constitute a state". A democracy is NOT a state. Can never be.

All things in the cosmos are the regular combination of different elements. The family is just that. The Atom is just that. The human body is just that. All are composed of different elements. This is the Natural Law. In a natural organic society, a society regularly grows into having royalty, aristocracy and commons and other sections. A natural organic society is one composed of different elements. A conservative is one who recognizes this---and is obedient to the laws of nature.

America, the FFofA, rejected this; which is a Masonic teaching, which is also the anti-clericalism inherent in rabid Christian heresy of John Hus and in the Puritains, a very Judiazed Christianity. Masonry is also very Judiazed.  Protestantism is a not European. It is not European thought or practice. It is Jewish. Masonry is the same thing. It is not European.

These two thought patterns combined to create America and denied the natural organic structure of the state.

But one can never escape from nature, for democracy recreates the natural organic structure by building a faux or psuedo hierarchy. America has its elites, a psuedo aristocracy consisting of Journalists, Academia who are all leftists. The destruction of the natural aristocracy leads to a faux aristocracy of ideology. This new psuedo aristocracy is not tied to the people by blood but is driven by ideology. The psuedo Monarch, the President is driven by ideology not by ties of blood, and being "The father of his people". This new faux aristocracy and psuedo-monarchy have no real ties to the "people" but are beholden to ideology. Politics is naturally divorced from race. Politics can not be divorced from race.

This is why the monarchies had to be destroyed across Europe first. So that the Ideologue may rise in control of their respective countries.

A true blue conservative upholds the natural organic growth of his country. A true blue conservative is a monarchist, a traditionalist, and has to be a Catholic. As Hillaire Belloc said, "The Faith is Europe and Europe is the Faith". Catholicism is European; Truly and inherently. It is the only thing. Masonry and Protestantism are only rebellions.

Protestantism, and Judiasm does not recognize the Natural Law. Masonry does but its conception is mixed with the Kabbala and Eastern thought. A true blue conservative, a European recognizes the Natural Law in its Hellenic, Roman conception. As you can see, America is bearing the fruits of Masonry. America is leaving its European culture and traditions and accepting "New Modes and Orders". America is the forefront of this. Americanism is a heresy. Americanism is doomed to failure. A conservative is one who is cognizant of being "the cause of victory". Only by being Obedient to God, is one able to being "a cause of victory". One can only be "a cause of victory" when one is obedient to the Natural Law and to the Church.

@Wheeler's Nihilistic America

Submitted by Capodistrias on Wed, 2008-12-10 18:57.

Tell me is the Church in error for designating Mary the Immaculate Conception the Patroness of the United States? As you must know the Catholic Church just celebrated the day, have you issued a Bull voiding that designation? When you issue your fiats do you have a big white miter on your head?

Like I said you're alone in an empty house. I'm sure the House of the Lord would welcome you back at any time. Just leave your heresy at the door, enough crap has already been tramped thru the aisles over the centuries.

what makes a society II

Submitted by peter vanderheyden on Wed, 2008-12-10 15:47.

I liked this post of Mister Wheeler, because it strengthens one of my points about religion. In the post of Mister Wheeler one can detect a few mechanisms:

1) Start from dogma’s without questioning or subjecting them to scientific proof. Give the dogma an absolute sounding name. Write the name with majuscules: the Natural Law

“All things in the cosmos are the regular combination of different elements”
It makes no sense of course. Each of this elements being a “thing”; we would be able to divide everything into “different elements” into infinity. But hell, who needs science when we’ve got dogma’s and religion.

3) Derive from your dogma a world order you would like to establish. All of a sudden the “thing” becomes society, and “the different elements” can’t be anything else then a feudal structure from a king to slavery. No further explanation needed, we’re talking religion, after all.

2) Define a threatening enemy, and make people afraid of them.

Here, Mister Wheeler is a bit disappointing. His enemy is Judaism, but that has been tried before. We might say it’s not very original. Beside its far better to use an enemy that is already doing very badly in the polls. Muslims would have done much better. Anyway, I guess he would have had some difficulty connecting Muslims with Protestants.

3) Connect all opponents to your dogma with your enemy trough a worldwide conspiracy.

This is a very important step. By doing so, one can avoid every form of criticism to the dogma. Criticism becomes automatically connected to the big enemy; a life threatening situation for each person trying to criticise. Connecting Judaism to Protestantism and masonry is rather farfetched but, hey, we’re talking religion and dogma here.

4) Connect your theory to a hype, and redirect this hype to your theory. The hype that Mister Wheeler uses is “conservatism” Never mind that most conservatives are just the opposite of what he claims, just tell them what “real” conservatives should be like.

5) Try to spread your theory trough indoctrination and a new meme is born. Luckily Mister Wheeler is still far from reaching this goal. Personally I don’t think he is good enough to reach it.

@PeterV

Submitted by Capodistrias on Wed, 2008-12-10 19:19.

One nut doesn't make your fruitcake position on Religion palatable.

Science could easily be inserted in what I assume you are saying about religion.

Though I give you credit you did a nice job of breaking down what Mr. Wheeler is attempting to do in his postings.

A simplier way to sum him up - Flim-Flam Man.

RE: 6

Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Wed, 2008-12-10 04:16.

The main products of the Enlightenment were liberalism and egalitarianism. The events of the Civil War, Stuart Restoration and Glorious Revolution dealt with freedom, whereas the French were primarily concerned with the decadent excesses of the aristocracy and ancien regime. And whereas religion in the main worked against the Stuarts, it seemed to uphold the the unpopular institutions of French society.

 

East-Central Europe was historically divided between Catholic (with some Protestant minorities) and Eastern Orthodox Christianity. The Catholicized Slavs had a westward orientation and adopted the Latin alphabet, whereas the Orthodox ones looked to Constantinople until its capture and used Cyrillic. Vitally, Catholicism differed from Orthodoxy in its transnational competition with all levels of temporal authority, while Orthodoxy maintained the Roman legacy of Caesaropapism. While the Catholic Church remained a constant foe of Marxism-Leninism, Orthodoxy was ground under and never posed a major threat.

Wheels within Wheels

Submitted by Capodistrias on Wed, 2008-12-10 03:40.

Do you need a decoder ring to read Sora?

Nihilistic America?

"I could sing a song, and will sing it, although I am alone in an empty house and must sing it into mine own ears."

Thus spoke capodistrias

Submitted by W. Lindsay Wheeler on Wed, 2008-12-10 00:22.

Capodistrias wrote:

Anyone who can claim that the American Revolution was nihilistic is missing a few spokes. Go back and read the founding documents again. God is in there somewhere. Unless You from your mountaintop are claiming otherwise?

"Masonic influences started the war, and Masonic connections tipped the balance toward the Revolutionary side. When the war was finally over, Masonry played the single most important role in creating the new nation." (Secret Societies of America's Elite, Steven Sora. pg 99)

No true blue conservative would defend America. The conservatives of America were the Loyalists. America is a Novus Ordo as intended by the FFofA. No true conservative worth his salt would even defend it, can't; it's an impossibility. 

America is not a Christian country, never was. The huge amount of the population were the most rabid Christian heretics, outside of tradition. How can that be "conservative"? 1/4 of America's elite were Masons. Thomas Paine was not a Mason, but all his ideas were Masonic. He wrote a glowing book on Masonry. Who instigated Freemasonry? Do any of you know that a majority of the texts of Freemasonry are infused with Kaballa texts, quotes, references, and teachings? The Love affair with godless, nihilist America must be ended. And to have anybody glorify the American revolution on a conservative website is absolutely ludicrous. This is not a conservative website but an Enlightenment, Novus Ordo website which is actually harming European civilization than anything else. 

Silliness

Submitted by njartist on Tue, 2008-12-09 04:09.

Dear, dear

Fr. Seraphim Rose explicity points out that attacking the Old Order is Nihilism.

Well then, Roman Catholicism is Nihilism because it overthrew paganism; Liberty is Nihilism because it overthrew serfdom; literacy is Nihilism because it overthrew the primacy of the priestcraft.

Wisdom and understanding are nihilistic because they overthrow the tyranny of fools.

Modernisation # 3

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Tue, 2008-12-09 00:58.

@ marcfrans

 

Had it been left up to me to think of a title, it  would have been something along the lines of "The United States of Amish meets Spamalot".

 

btw You forgot to include the name of my old pal, Yitzhak.Remember him? I do.

modernisation4

Submitted by peter vanderheyden on Tue, 2008-12-09 11:47.

I guess somebody should give Mister Wheeler some credit. Let me give it a go:

Until now, I didn’t like the “Duly Noted” stuff at all. But compared to the work of Mister Wheeler, The writings of Mister Handlery suddenly became moderate, well thought of and full of common sense. Einstein would have said: “Everything is relative”. It all depends on your reference. Mister Wheeler succeeded in creating the absolute zero-point from which there is no beyond. This measure point makes the difference between me and the rest of the BJ infinitesimally small.

Modernisation # 2

Submitted by marcfrans on Mon, 2008-12-08 18:04.

@ Atlanticist

On second thought, I have missed my chance to come up of with a better title for my reaction to Mr Wheeler's irrational rant.  The title should have been "Kappert and Monarchist meet your match".

As to Mr Wheeler's rant. I think that the crucial word - in the sense of the most revealing word - was his use of the word "barbarian", not the word "modernization".   He literally wrote "A barbarian rules the European." (In America today, he means).   In that little 'cry' lies, I think, the true essence/source of Mr Wheeler's problem.

Perhaps I should have chosen the title: "Kappert, Monarchist, AND Armor, meet your match"?

 

P.S. On my 1 dollar bills - I just checked it - it says in small letters (in the Great Seal of the United States) "Novus Ordo Seclorum".   But, in much bigger letters (right above the "one" of One Dollar) it still says "In God we trust".   The problem with ranters in general is that they tend to be poor observers of the world around them.  I mean, which rational person would want to defend every (aspect of the) "old order" irrespective of the nature of that order? 

Thus Spoke Wheeler

Submitted by Capodistrias on Sun, 2008-12-07 23:25.

Anyone who can claim that the American Revolution was nihilistic is missing a few spokes. Go back and read the founding documents again. God is in there somewhere. Unless You from your mountaintop are claiming otherwise?

"Modernisation"

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Sun, 2008-12-07 21:35.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are not the various ratified Amendments to the US Constitution a form of "modernisation"? e.g. Amendment 19 - Women's Suffrage, ratified 8/18/1920.

@ W. Lindsay Wheeler

Submitted by traveller on Sun, 2008-12-07 09:34.

I really have no idea what you are talking about. I am sure I understand the words and even the full sentences, but your rantings are based on one word in a whole article.

 

Anyway, whatever your problems, this site is not known for banning anybody except on the very, very rare occasions that the belgian laws would have been used against the responsible persons of this blog.

Kappert meets his match

Submitted by marcfrans on Sun, 2008-12-07 04:17.

It is amazing the kind of ranting a simple word like "modernization" can induce.  One trusts that Mr Handlery won't be impressed.  Neither would "barbarians" be, and they shouldn't.  Leftist ranting or rightist ranting, it won't make much difference to them.   

 

The Nihilist American Revolution

Submitted by W. Lindsay Wheeler on Sun, 2008-12-07 02:28.

"Modernization". That is a Marxist code-word. The essence of progressiveness is "modernization". Tradition, custom, go out the window, and "modernization" becomes the modus operandi. If society is to be modernized, must also the family? Must the family structure of father, mother, children, be overturned and rewritten?  If not in the family---why then the state? Here I am on the "conservative voice" of Europe, and I have to read that one of the most glorious things of the Enlightenment is "modernization". It is much like Benjamin Disraeli's "progressive conservativism"----an oxymoron. 

What happened to the defense of the Old Order?  Where is that? On the "conservative voice" of Europe we are not reading about the Old Order but how great the Modernization has been going!  America? And exemplar of good performance?

America is a vulgar, puerile, dysfunctional morass. The fruits of "modernization" and the Enlightenment can be seen in America---A barbarian rules the European.  That's modernization?

Fr. Seraphim Rose wrote a small treatise on what ails Europe, "Nihilism, The Root of Revolution of the Modern Age". The Enlightenment was/is Nihilism. Fr. Seraphim Rose explicity points out that attacking the Old Order is Nihilism. That is why on the back of the One American Dollar bill is the American motto: "Novus Ordo Secularum", "The New Order of the Ages".  America is Nihilist. The FFofA purposely rejected the Old Order, hence it is Nihilist.

 Are you people conservative? Is this site really "the voice of conservativism"? Do you really know what you are talking about? I find it hard to see anything conservative, traditional about this site whatsoever. Who are you fooling?  It ain't me.  And you people certainly don't know anything about conservativism. Conservativism is about Modernization?  You're cuckoo. (and that is mild characterization, I could think of worse things to describe the writers here, but then I would be banned.)