"Bring all Scandinavians back from the Middle East, then ship all the Middle Easterners born in Scandinavia back to whatever country they came from in the first place..No problem."

It really is the best solution -- IF, Europe wants to stay European, and not become Muslim. But in order to do that the Euros will first have to repudiate their multi-culti Liberal ideology. Repudiate Liberalism, or become Muslim -- either way, Liberalism is done for.

(Your account of being married to a Muslim needs to be more widely published.)

well, our friend nermin was denying that the other day. Perhaps lies are allowed when discussing with infidels as someone argued on this site.
But more to the point: someone said the prophet refused to have his portrait taken because he didn't want to start a cult, didn't want to become an idol. Two toughts:
1. no danger of that with these cartoons, so what is all the fuss about
2. the way some of his followers talk about him in their interventions smacks of idolising to me. They should be more careful

Aman wrote:"...but before asking Muslims to leave:
Get out of our countries first, withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan, stop stealing our money and resources."

I think it's a valid point (but for the nonsense about "stealing" their money and resources). Islam and Western Civ are irreconcilable. We should get out of their lands, and they should get out of ours. Good fences make good neighbors.

But Aman, Israel is NOT your land. It was Jewish land long before Muslims invaded. But we're beyond argument on that point. The matter will be decided on the battlefield.

I'd love to see the escalation of the cartoon case. More and more european newspapers should post the cartoons on the first pages on the base of free press. Islam states should theaten more violent response.

Grow up! There is no absolute freedom of speech without limits!

"Then you're no better than they are."

Ink Slinger that is just wrong. Boycotts are protected under freedom of speech and if an individual choses to do so... there is not a thing wrong with that. If he wants to boycott goods from Muslims then he has every right to do so. I also think that if Muslims want to boycott Danish products that too is perfectly fine. They are expressing themselves.

What IS wrong is to kill or threaten to kill people because you are offended. Censorship, even one self-imposed through fear, is not a free society. Your intelligence is blind if you equate the two.

You are slinging something but it isn't ink.

Why all the outrage now I wondered?
The original cartoons were published back in September. Where you guys been? Well. This might help explain it.

Read this from The Counterterrorism Blog:
http://counterterror.typepad.com/the_counterterrorism_blog/2006/02/fabricated_cart.html

"Last November, Abu Laban, a 60-year-old Palestinian who had served as translator and assistant to top Gamaa Islamiya leader Talaal Fouad Qassimy during the mid-1990s and has been connected by Danish intelligence to other Islamists operating in the country, put together a delegation that traveled to the Middle East to discuss the issue of the cartoons with senior officials and prominent Islamic scholars. The delegation met with Arab League Secretary Amr Moussa, Grand Imam of Al-Azhar Sheikh Mohammad Sayyed Tantawi, and Sunni Islam’s most influential scholar, Yusuf al Qaradawi. "We want to internationalize this issue so that the Danish government will realize that the cartoons were insulting, not only to Muslims in Denmark, but also to Muslims worldwide," said Abu Laban.

On its face, it would appear as if nothing were wrong. However, the Danish Muslim delegation showed much more than the 12 cartoons published by Jyllands Posten. In the booklet it presented during its tour of the Middle East, the delegation included other cartoons of Mohammed that were highly offensive, including one where the Prophet has a pig face. But these additional pictures were NOT published by the newspaper, but were completely fabricated by the delegation and inserted in the booklet..."

Also important to note:
Raymond Lakah, owner of the French Soir, is an Eqyptian exile living in France. From Egypt Today:
http://www.egypttoday.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=2824 (scrolling req'd)
"More than four years after allegedly fleeing to Paris under the weight of some LE 1.2 billion in bad debt, Lakah, 41, started making his own headlines last month (quite literally) as the new owner of France-Soir, a storied French tabloid."

He is known as Rami in Egypt.

i want to boycott muslims products

Then you're no better than they are.

Like you and I, they are entitled to say what they want, as long as it's within the law.

Or they would be if they lived in Europe.

Some times I find it hard to insult you guys like you insult me. Actually I really think you have some values, but the problem is that you are lost in proving it in public matter. While you are lost you think criticizing them in silly way with lot of ill-implications, is not problem because you already see your self lost. You don't feel offended because your God is not real in your eyes. Or, he is not loved one. You don't fear on your children from the bad future, because you never know if they are your children. You never fear of their minds because you are thinking it is great thing to let them go astray like you. You lost your guidence and you are empty from values. You feel some needs to some values, but you are stick with only one, which is not anyvalue, but the inexistance of any value, which it is FREEDOM. Freedom of what? the answer is, the freedom from values. Why you are like this? Simply because that was the only way which gathered the nation of Danish, nation of French, nation of every so called democratic country in EU.
But why you guys chose this stupid system "Democracy"? because it is the only way to gather people in your countries and let them do what they really want to do. They want freedom? No, Actually freedom is a step, not a goal. To be democratic? actually no, it is also a step. Then what you want guys? The answer is, you are human beings, and as every other human being you are searching for happiness, but you failed to find one definition/guidence for happiness among your people, because you are surely ignorant of the most critical/important thing in your life. which is: What is happiness? and how to get it?. And for the elite class people of your country to stay the elite class, they just worked on a proposal to have the majority to agree on some system. And because you people are ignorants about any provable way of happiness, your people decided on the Democratic System, and Freedom Ideology. Actually your life do really sucks. Democrcy is the most stupid system in the world, because it is simply, counting numbers. The biggest group of monkeys will get the bananas. And the whole world should repect the choice of those monkeys because they are so much. Yes, you are really went astray. But actually you have no choice. You either accept Islam and be good honest, or you live in the propaganda of Democracy/Happiness relation. Islam actually inside you, but you just have desires which are just used to be over control, and your mind is just used to jump over logic only for some topics. I don't want your to apologize, because you are really doing much more evil things than insulting somebody you don't have certian information about (if you have no ill-will), you actually living in the earth which your fathers and mothers didn't make, and eat food which you didn't creat its source materials by your hands, and breathing air without asking about your right in it. You think your self an animal? ok, animals don't ask for democracy, they just serve the man. You think your self man? man has mind, values, manners, which will urge him to search for his rights and duties before you could stuck in any where far from your happiness. if you want to have the rights of human and behave like animals, then the best recipe for that is just to be European who insulted the prophet because he is ignorant about what that means. You think it is freedom, and freedom is something you just dream of, actually you are slave to your animality just like donkeys. If you want to think as a human being then this is the way:
* Who am I? SOME EXISTING UNKNOWN CREATION
* What I want? HAPPINESS
* What is happiness? TO BE HAPPY
* How to be happy? This is personalized unswer. Good people tends to be happy when they do good things and avoid bad things. And bad people tends to do what they desire, or do nothing. And many people are a mix of good and bad over time and conditions.
* If you are bad, actually you will have very little ammount of thinking about your happiness, and you simply will be slave to your desires which will keep you in the dark
* If you are good, then, What is good/bad? Good is what will let get benefit more than disbenefit in your way to happiness . and bad is the opposit.
* How to know what will make benefits more than disbenefits? Assuming that this world has some rules consisting over time, to know what is good and what is bad we need to know past/present/future.
* How can I know the future? That is not possible eternally so far, and It is loosely possible for the few years to come.
* So how to know what is good/bad for eternal life? This is what religion serves.
* How to know some religion is right? You check its proofs and the more probability of the basic proofs the more solid mindful belief. You intellectual talents will make the role here. And if you really honest and do value your philosophy you will not accept such weak proofs like what christianity or judaism have. You actually will go to Islam, which is the only authentic religion to some beneficial doctrine which will fill well in the space of my way to happiness. Your mind is your friend here, and if you are really want to be honest then stop believing in unproved things (like the integrity of the bible), and denying things you never can know about its inexistence (like God).
* Know about your God, and follow his guidence for what is good and what is bad, and feel the real happiness.

i want to boycott muslims products,
anyone knows marks to boycott,i dont want to help those people buying their products,even if thye live in europe i dont buy that newspaper anymore france soir.
neither i want my money goes to palestinians or others muslims countries,
let them be poor ,europe dont have to feed them
i dont want my money goes to muslims countries.

We have posted an appeal today.

Bloggers - do your job!

"It isn't a Hysteria, it just our freedom , we don't want to buy your goods, and we will burn the flags ..."

To Aman: Yes, it is your freedom not to buy Danish goods and it is your freedom to burn our flag ... do as you like.

But by beating up Danish workers (Arla) and threatening our lives you only widen the gap between our cultures and that does not help the Muslims living in Denmark. If integration was difficult before it sure has become worse now.

I know that it is forbidden for you to draw Muhammeds face ... well, it is not forbidden for us to do so and I do not understand why we should follow the rules of your religion.

The drawings offended you ... well, when did Muslims outside Denmark suddenly start reading Danish newspapers and why? Do you even understand Danish?

Let it be a matter between Denmark and the Muslims living in Denmark ... they have their freedom not to buy that newspaper (Jyllandsposten).

Came here from welt.die after 'having read about this for the first time today. As an ethnic Indian who's lived in parts of Western Europe and US for many years now, I must say I'm not that surprised by all this. Firstly, to all those people who think that 'the cartoons werent offensive' - I'm a former Christian, now an atheist and I felt vaguely offended myself. Never even in any mainstream Indian newspaper would anything of this sort have been published, about any religion or ethnicity- not because it was illegal, obviously, or even because it would lead to the paper getting burned on the streets (that happens in India anyway on the slightest pretext, and its very good for circulation), but because the editors would have recognised that at least three of them are just nasty for the sake of being nasty.
That being said, of course the government should have restated that there is nothing illegal about what was done; and it is to the Danish government's credit that they did so. What is to its discredit, and what has been remarked upon by whomever I have shown this to, is that the Danish PM didnt come out and say 'these are in bad taste'. He probably didnt think so, did he? And neither do most of you. That's kind of disgusting, and also symptomatic of the rampant cultural insecurity of parts of Western Europe.
I look forward to seeing if this happens in the US. I doubt even the Washington Times or the WSJ, the most rightwing papers I can think of, would run them. I am not surprised that it didnt happen in the UK, even though the Independent is a close ally of France-Soir and Die Welt; not just because of the thankfully dead religious defamation bill, but because the British and Americans - and here I speak from experience - are just more welcoming and tolerant and *polite* than Western Europe.
To the person who said, 'why dont you insult some of our cultural icons' I say: well, thats the problem, isnt it? ITs no surprise this comes from places scared of losing cultural independence and what remains of their dismantled cultural heritage. Which is again why a mainstream US paper wouldnt feel the need to stoop that low. So, I'd insult some Danish cultural icons, if I could think of any.
What the hell..
Hans Christian Andersen dyed his hair.
'Italian for Beginners' was REALLY bad.

See my point?

Oh, and all the offended Muslim posters - try to stick to grammatical posts and linear, rational argument, please. Otherwise even Europeans who think you're the devil wont be able to take you seriously.

Okej! Bring all Scandinavians back from the Middle East, then ship all the Middle Easterners born in Scandinavia back to whatever country they came from in the first place..No problem. That way they do not have to worry about it, and then Europe does not have to listen to all the lies about the peace loving arabs. My ex husband was a Muslim and an Arab..biggest liar I ever met in my life! Biggest thief too! vindictive, whiny, moaning, thieving (ran up huge bills on the electric, telephone, credit cards) lying, nasty,greedy, selfish, never gave a dinar or pound for zakat (charity) in his life, vicious and cheated like a dog every day of his married life, with men or women. ( we remained married because I maintained the illusion so his family would not have a heart attack). Drank like a fish also. But he said that that was alright.. to lie to a non Muslim, but not good to lie to another Muslim. ( He lied to everyone) Hmmm! He was an Alawite ..he said Sunnis and Shiite were scum of the earth.. only his sect was good. He hated Jordanians, Palestinians, Kuwaitis, was really nasty about the Saudis, laughed at Bahrainis and called them stupid. He was very invective about Libyans and other arab countries..He thought they were all childish and stupid.. not good any of them. He only liked Lebanese as they were really French like and Syrians.. his country. He never set foot in a mosque outside of Syria. All that religious stuff was for the birds according to him, and the only time he ever stepped into a mosque, was when he was home and he HAD to go. Which he managed to make sure was not often. But he SWORE he was a "religious" man. And his rhetoric sounds almost as if he could have been your relative, Aman. I guess it is alright to bomb, behead, maim, murder and kill as long as you do it for Islam, Muslims and Jihad. He was passionate and hot blooded for his religion, his devotion and submission to islam was equaled only by his vices. He never learned any of that from me, but every day he exhorted me to become one of the faithful. His friends were like him.. so where are all these righteous people, god fearing and holy. He would jump up and dance gleefully around the house when they showed pictures of bombings on innocent civilians, they consumed a case of Taittinger's champagne in celebration..his tongue trilling happily, twas the glorious jihad! Payback time, retribution time. From him, his friends, neighbours or relatives I NEVER saw that caring, peaceful, sweet, soulful Islam. The only time a prayer rug ever entered that house was the one I went to his mosque and bought, the only time a Quran ever entered that house I bought it. Yes, respect that is what he said.. we respect the religion and so should others. The world needs to respect Muslims, the religion and their people. I learned a lot from him. I learned the respect arabs have for one another and for people different than themselves. I learned about adherence to traditional values and family life in Islam. I learned about religious tolerance, equality, charity, courage, reliability!That is why I am an Odinist today! Praise Odin! Baldur save us!

..."Many have tried to attack Islam, but look, they have all gone and Islam is still here."...

Thanks to Islam, so is polio.

good luck in Denmark turning back the tide of the culture change and intollerance brough upon you by the muslim presence. They dont want to assimilate and live in harmony. Kind of like the "borg" on Star Trek. I"m not a "treky" but it's a comparison that comes to mind. Unfortunately it seems rather accurate. Call, write and vote for politicians who support your points of views. If that doesn't work, organize your own interest groups. Put pressure on moderate, muslim groups to do more than be a silent presence. Silence is consent. Here in the States we have asked why CAIR,(council on American Islamic Relations) to speak out against radical muslim groups and their actions world wide. I think it may be lip service on their part. Do what you can to let them know you arent passive about your objections to their pressures of your capitulation and subjugation to muslim. It's not my religion so I'm not bound to it. I'll give them the moderate respect I do to anything other religion, but you want find me on a prayer rug 5 times a day. I'm getting ready for WW3.

Good luck Denmark,

The Monty Python movie "Life of Brian" makes fun, for one example, of the prohibition in Judaism of saying G-d's name. Some people were offended by the film, but no boycotts of Great Britain resulted from it. No British nationals were beaten up. Salman Rushdie, on the other hand, will need bodyguards for the rest of his life. Would one of the Muslim contributors to this thread like to comment on this?

Instead of worrying about catoons I wish moslems would support freedom. Is it right to put someone to death for renouncing Islam. How many islamic countries have that as their law?

The UK Guardian newspaper had this about Saudi Arabia: "If you are found guilty of any of the following in the kingdom - murder, rape, armed robbery, drug smuggling, apostasy (turning your back on Islam) or witchcraft - the price is beheading." Apparently renouncing Islam warrants being murdered and this is the teaching of Muhammad and if so I stand by my assertion that he is one sorry bastard.

The Iraqi resistance which is killing Iraqi citizens?

I'm not judging anything, I'm just saying that I'm an independent person and it's up to me what I think of Islam and not you or anyone else. That is the beauty of freedom of speech my friend.

Yes, sure Islam is still there but hey speaking of that, Christianity has been there longer and hasn't gone anywhere!

Non-Muslim Europe is choosing its leaders now, seeing who can be trusted to stand up, and who will sit back down when threatened.

Right now, it is Denmark that is leading.

This matters, I think, because ultimately Muslims will not live in peace with others; there is really no historical precedent for it, and every precedent possible for the opposite.

So I expect the two sides to split within Europe, with Muslims migrating to friendler (for them) climes, and non-Muslims doing the same.

Little changes now will be amplified steadily as first a few people move shifting the balance, then a few more, then...

Islamic newpapers regularly print obnoxious lies about other religions. For example, Saudi daily Al-Riyadh published a story: "Jews Use Teenagers' Blood for 'Purim' Pastries". Thankfully, in that case the editor apologized but it remains true that hate filled publications are very common. Apparently, the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is very popular in the Islamic world. Sadly, it seems Islamic countries and many islamic people are hypocritical when it comes to respecting other religions. I once read that the punishment for renouncing Islam in Saudi Arabia is death. Does anyone know if this is true? If that is the teaching of Muhammad then he is was one sorry bastard.

100 years ago the jews were only 5% of the population in Palestine, but during England occupation of Palestine, the jews came from all over the world , and they killed or terrorized the original people to flee from the country.
It's my region so don't tell lies about the history of it?
To the infidel: you wrong, we are much better than you? When we were in Spain, Muslims, Christians, and Jews lived together in peace, but when the Christians recaptured the country they killed the Muslims or forced them to convert to Christianity, and they also killed the Jews, and again the Nazis killed the jews . And now you are repeating the very same crime by supporting the killing of the Palestinians by the Israelis. So who is better; you failed to live with any other religion!!!
And regarding Iraq, do not tell me that this polls was made my the Americans or the allies, because I really believe them tooo much, any way the Iraqi resistance will prove the real wish of the Iraqi people. So Danish soldiers in Iraq; hide in your base waiting to be targeted by the Iraqi men.
I do not care about your opinion of Islam, who are you to judge this great religion?
Many have tried to attack Islam, but look, they have all gone and Islam is still here.
Bist du der denker? Ich glaube nicht

Strange freedom, looks more like a hysteria to me :)

You know pal, here in Europe you simply cannot force me or anyone else to respect Islam. It's up to each individual to decide what he does in that case and every other. And frankly, I don't think the behavior of Muslims in this cartoons issue is making it more likely that non-Muslims see a reason to respect Islam.

Respect is not something you can take for granted pal, it must be earned. And you guys are kind of not doing too good of a job I think.

Und ja, ich bin der Denker. Danke.

to all of you
It isn't a Hysteria, it just our freedom , we don't want to buy your goods, and we will burn the flags of all of the countries that do not respect Islam," yes the Muslims have done it" its very common to burn the flag of the country that offended you .
We believe in all of the prophets so we respect them all and refuse to humiliate them.
Yeh your right the Danish flag was burned when Denmark supported the invasion of Iraq as you said. Which is worse: to burn a flag of a country that invades you or to invade a country? try to think about it " du bist der denker "

I wasn't asking you to leave people to leave. I just asked why you were staying in Europe if staying there is really so horrible?? Don't put words in my mouth.

And well, according to opinion polls in Iraq for instance majority of Iraqis think it was a good thing the United States and its allies invaded the country and put Saddam Hussein from power. So honestly I don't really see the problem.

Your land? That is highly debatable. There was no Palistinian people 100 years ago and there were more Jews living in Palestine than Arabs.

In any case, I understand God (the God of Israel) is also often being depicted in a very bad way in Arabic newspapers. So try again friend.

I wont answer you in the same filthy language, but before asking Muslims to leave:
Get out of our countries first, withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan, stop stealing our money and resources.

"The burning of the flags of denmark and norway was because of the stupid act of disrespecting Muslims by the newspapers and the governments of those two countries not because Muslims wanted to burn the cross!!"

Yeah sure, burning the flags if of course someone else's fault, not the Muslims who are ACTUALLY DOING IT!!! How immature can one argument be...

Our lands is occupied by the Israelis so we depict the Israeli occupiers ,not the followers of the Jewish faith.

"You dymphna ,Do not think that this cartoons will effect us, our faith is much more stronger than you ever think."

Well good for you Aman! But then why all this huge hysteria???

And by the way, Islam also prohibits the depiction of Jesus Christ, Moses and Abraham. Why haven't you people said anything about that??

You said:
"I have Christian friends and I refuse to humiliate them?
But the question is ; Do you do the same?"

Answer: What grade are you in? As an adult, I can honestly say that the thought of humiliating anyone does not usually enter my mind. It is not even the basis of a decent argument. Quite frankly, a stupid thing to say on your part.

I have no interest to offend Muslims myself but I nevertheless have the democratic right to do so if I choose to. That's what the freedom of speech is all about my friend. Suggested reading for you is Voltaire and Rousseau if you want to understand the western idea of freedom of speech.

"I do not agree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it." This quotation is a famous summary of Voltaire's attitude towards freedom of speech in case you don't know.

And yes, the Danish flag has been burned before by Muslims, when Denmark decided to support the invasion of Iraq.

To Anan:

Thank you for pointing out the cultural divide between the muslims and the civilized. The muslim world is powered by concepts such as honor, respect and faith. The civilized world has moved beyond these dark age notions of what the backbone of a society should be, and has replaced those notions with principles applicable to all, rule of law, freedom of expression, religion, etc...

In your world, he (and I do mean he, and not she) who is dishonored or disrespected is entitled to kill or maim. In my world, there is a rule, applicable to all, that prohibits murder, and "he offended me" is no defense to such rule.

It seems to me, therefore, that western values and muslim values are incompatible and irreconcilable. I think we would agree on this.

The burning of the flags of denmark and norway was because of the stupid act of disrespecting Muslims by the newspapers and the governments of those two countries not because Muslims wanted to burn the cross!!
I have Christian friends and I refuse to humiliate them?
But the question is ; Do you do the same?
And by the way have you ever heard , about burning the danish flag by Muslims before, this was a reaction of your aggressive action

And by the way, if we Europeans are really so bad people and if we really treat Muslims so badly - then what the f... are you people doing in Europe? Pardon my language, but are you saying Muslims living in Europe are some kind of masochists??

"we just want to teach you a lesson of respecting others."

Respecting others? In what world are you living? Is burning the Danish and Norwegian flag a symbol of respect for others? Thos two flags bear the cross, the holiest symbol og Christan people. RESPECTING OTHERS?? Tell me another one...

"Our values are much better than yours, because we respect everybody. Thanks for showing us your ugly face of racism"

Tell that to the Jews depicted in so ugly manner in various Arabic newspapers.

You dymphna ,Do not think that this cartoons will effect us, our faith is much more stronger than you ever think.
we just want to teach you a lesson of respecting others.

Those cartoons have shown the Muslims the truth of the european tolerance.
what is funny that the europeans always lecture us about human right and respect of the minorities!!
Our values are much better than yours, because we respect everybody.
Thanks for showing us your ugly face of racism