Thank God for the Danish Cartoons

From the desk of Koenraad Elst on Thu, 2006-02-02 12:33

On 31 January 2006 the British House of Commons narrowly defeated – with just 283 votes against 282 – New Labour’s Racial and Religious Hatred Bill, intended to prohibit speech or artistic expressions deemed insulting by religious communities. This was a narrow yet historic victory for freedom of expression, as well as a victory for Parliament against a despotic-minded Government. Liberal-Democratic spokesman Evan Harris commented: “The Government just failed to understand that they can’t take liberties with freedom of expression.”

On the occasion of the House of Commons vote, familiar maxims on liberty were aptly invoked in various debates, e.g. against the British Government’s plea that the bill was “necessary” to make multicultural coexistence possible (an argument invoked by governments across Europe to impose similar censorship laws). William Pitt the Younger was quoted:

“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom; it is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”

Regarding the argument that this curtailment of freedom of speech is only a small concession to an acute societal need, Edmund Burke’s words were repeated:

“The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away for expedience and by parts.”

Against the argument that many things people say about other religions are ill-informed or prejudiced, Mahatma Gandhi was quoted:

“Freedom isn’t worth having if it does not connote the freedom to err.”

Undoubtedly the British parliamentary vote boosted the morale of the Danish government and media. The Danes need all the support they can get now that they are being terrorized by Muslim fanatics but also attacked, openly or indirectly, by an international establishment that speaks a.o. through Bill Clinton, the Council of Europe and various EU bureaucrats. The Danes’ freedom of expression is decried as “Islamophobia”, a notion which was introduced by Tariq Ramadan and is now being promoted and inserted into international policy by people such as Karel De Gucht, Belgium’s Foreign Affairs Minister and the current Chairman of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE).

So far the Danish Government and Jyllands-Posten have, while making some conciliatory gestures, stood firm against pressure. Other courageous European newspapers have expressed their support by republishing the controversial cartoons in their own pages.

What seems to cause people most offence are, however, not errors, but hearing things that are undeniably right on the mark. Depicting Mohammed with a bomb in his turban, as in one of the controversial cartoons, hurts because the perpetrators of the most recent acts of Islamic terror, from 9/11 suicide hijacker Mohammed Atta to Mohammed Bouyeri (Theo van Gogh’s assassin), have explicitly affirmed that they were motivated by their zeal for Islam and by the teaching and precedent of the Prophet. Mohammed in fact organized armed raids on caravans, took hostages for ransom, permitted his men to rape the hostages, and ordered the assassination of poets who mocked or criticized him.

Does a scholarly paper documenting the link between Mohammed and terrorism, or a cartoon making the same point, hurt the feelings of all the truly peace-loving, ordinary Muslims? Certainly, but this is where George Orwell’s observation applies:

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

Millions of Muslims have constructed for themselves a version of Islam that reconciles a veneration for the Prophet and the Quran with an acceptance of more enlightened values of pluralism and tolerance. To them it may come as a shock to see that not everyone shares their views. But that kind of shock therapy is a healthy thing. Those Danish cartoonists may be among the greatest benefactors the Muslims ever had.

Running out

Submitted by Bob Doney on Sat, 2006-02-04 14:10.

Are you running out of thing to say, Nermin? You seem to be repeating a lot of posts and quotations.

Bob Doney

to Mr Bob from nermin(2)

Submitted by nermin on Sat, 2006-02-04 14:57.

also i dont find anyone reply to what i post from facts published in your newspaper by any logic words.
so we are running in Vicsios cycle…
I wish if these posts I repeat about islam and its prophet from the westerner thinkers point of view to be presented here as permenant issues as the other points but of course thisis impossible.that is why I repeat it everyday as I can.
Iam sure than noone ever heard about these things or those books written by most itelelctuals ,thinkers and university professores who convert toislam and who studied islam but without convert..
I think this is the logic reply for those who are saying things without knowledage and for those who claim that islam is fast growing because eof birth rate which are all nonsense because islam is fast growing in USA and is 4 times after11/9 and aso in france and britain…
Here is alink bout britain before you get angry and deny.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1096872/posts?page=33

Conversion

Submitted by Bob Doney on Sat, 2006-02-04 15:13.

for those who claim that islam is fast growing because eof birth rate which are all nonsense because islam is fast growing in USA and is 4 times after11/9 and aso in france and britain…
Here is alink bout britain before you get angry and deny.

What makes you think I'm going to get angry? I like new information, facts and opinions.

I'm not surprised that a lot people in the West are converting to Islam. But others are converting to all sorts of other creeds and beliefs as well. People believe in astrology, New Age healing, witchcraft - all sorts of stuff. As I said in another post, I think it is because people are uncertain and afraid, and there is indeed a lot to be uncertain and afraid about.

But as another poster on here said (sorry, whoever you are, can't remember your handle), a lot of people are also converting to "none of the above" in terms of religion.

Bob Doney

to mr bob from nermin(3)

Submitted by nermin on Sat, 2006-02-04 15:27.

Sorry mr Bob , but saying or comparing convert of people to nothing and to islam is unfaired….yes actor richard gere converted to budhism .but there is noone says that buhdism Is the fast growing faith in the world.
Also there is no othe r fsaith which is bad reputed and attacked by the media as islam yet it resist all that and fast growing.
Also islam is not compared to others because islam invit people to worshipping o f the one god and abandong drinking ,adulterous and all bad things and invit peopelto good ethics and high moral .
So no comparison of course.
Also,people who convert toislam in the west are returing to their normal nature as god created them on.they find islam comes with logic mind not that trinity and savior which made them escape from churches.they find In it peace of mind and answers to all questions as professor murad hofman and jeffery lang said. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0915957671/102-9484010-9729759?v=glance...

http://www.salaam.co.uk/themeofthemonth/june02_index.php?l=6

No comparison of course.
I hope you check th e above links and return tome .

Unfair

Submitted by Bob Doney on Sat, 2006-02-04 15:47.

saying or comparing convert of people to nothing and to islam is unfair

Of course you're going to think it is unfair - I'm not surprised that you do!

Bob Doney

to Mr Bob from nermin

Submitted by nermin on Sat, 2006-02-04 14:43.

iam repeating these posts intended Mr Bob.i want these repeated words to be present everyday and all the time here in this site to reach many people.
aslo these repeated posts are documented and importants .and writen by westernersnlike you..so what is teh harm in posting it over and over again.

Repeated

Submitted by Bob Doney on Sat, 2006-02-04 15:01.

aslo these repeated posts are documented and importants .and writen by westernersnlike you..so what is teh harm in posting it over and over again.

No real harm; it's just boring.

It's interesting though that what Mr Hart defines as "success in the secular world" is that Mohammed led conquering armies which swept through neighbouring territories:

"The Bedouin tribesmen of Arabia had a reputation as fierce warriors. But their number was small; and plagued by disunity and internecine warfare, they had been no match for the larger armies of the kingdoms in the settled agricultural areas to the north. However, unified by Muhammad for the first time in history, and inspired by their fervent belief in the one true God, these small Arab armies now embarked upon one of the most astonishing series of conquests in human history. To the northeast of Arabia lay the large Neo-Persian Empire of the Sassanids; to the northwest lay the Byzantine, or Eastern Roman Empire, centered in Constantinople. Numerically, the Arabs were no match for their opponents. On the field of battle, though, the inspired Arabs rapidly conquered all of Mesopotamia, Syria, and Palestine. By 642, Egypt had been wrested from the Byzantine Empire, while the Persian armies had been crushed at the key battles of Qadisiya in 637, and Nehavend in 642. But even these enormous conquests-which were made under the leadership of Muhammad's close friends and immediate successors, Abu Bakr and 'Umar ibn al-Khattab -did not mark the end of the Arab advance. By 711, the Arab armies had swept completely across North Africa to the Atlantic Ocean There they turned north and, crossing the Strait of Gibraltar, overwhelmed the Visigothic kingdom in Spain."

http://jamaat.net/hart/thetop100.html

An interesting paragraph, considering all the posts there have been on here in the last few days saying that Islamic countries don't invade non-Islamic ones!

Bob Doney

to Mr Bob from nermin

Submitted by nermin on Sat, 2006-02-04 15:14.

at least Mr Bob.it was fair battles.an army against an army.not as we see today , an army of eth super power of the world against nation like iraq with no official army...the most and i donot know what to call is what USA and europe do in occupied palstine..tehy give israel all tyes of weapons an ddeny on palestinians anything .even nthat propses state of palsrtinians tehy claim to be must be stripped of army...is taht fair play.
give palastinians the same weapons an dlet the play be fair and i promise you ,you will never again hear of any suicidal bombing any where...

Fair play

Submitted by Bob Doney on Sat, 2006-02-04 15:32.

an army of eth super power of the world against nation like iraq with no official army...

Oh, come on, Nermin, Saddam Hussein was a military dictator of the worst sort. An absolute, cruel tyrant who would have been succeeded by his even worse sons. It was a terrible (if understandable) misjudgment that the USA backed him against Iran, but an even bigger misjudgment that Russia, France and the others wouldn't stand firm against him before the latest war. Their policies were more led by money than any principles.

the most and i donot know what to call is what USA and europe do in occupied palstine..tehy give israel all tyes of weapons an ddeny on palestinians anything .even nthat propses state of palsrtinians tehy claim to be must be stripped of army...is taht fair play.

No, it isn't fair play. My heart bleeds for the ordinary Palestinian people - in Gaza, on the West Bank, in refugee camps. They have been badly treated all round - by Israel, by the Western powers, by the other Middle Eastern states and by their own leaders. Fatah seem to me to have been a bunch of crooks.

America could definitely have leant on Israel to have brought about a peaceful solution which could have benefited everyone. Indeed it did look as though Rabin was prepared to do a deal at Camp David. Unfortunately Arafat wasted the opportunity, Rabin was assassinated by the right-wing fanatics of his own country, and we now have a Palestinian Authority led by active terrorists.

The answer though isn't to give the Palestinians weapons, or for the Iranian president to talk about sweeping Israel into the sea. The Palestinians deserve a better future, the Israelis need (at last) to feel secure. The answer is to seek a two-state solution by negotiation, with the big powers of East and West trying to be helpful rather than screaming murder from the sidelines.

Bob Doney

to bob

Submitted by peace on Wed, 2006-02-15 14:22.

bob said:(The answer though isn't to give the Palestinians weapons, or for the Iranian president to talk about sweeping Israel into the sea.)
the answer is to cut all types of weapons from palastinians and give all mass destruction weapons to israelis ...that what US and europe do now....racism in its pure form

rotten filthy hooker peace,

Submitted by A New Believer on Wed, 2006-02-15 14:44.

rotten filthy hooker peace, Pull in that gut sweetie, looks bad in the sari. No actually racism in its purest form. Would be for the western world to gather you up "all muslims" and just have a great bakeoff!" Know what I mean dearie? No, well time, and intelligence not being on your side. You think a long time about it! After all people keep telling me here I am a N**I, I think we can all find a solution or two.. But see then we have to feed, water, give medical supplies and all that other humanitarian bs. So maybe a long rocket trip to pluto would be good too! One way destinations as it were! Though since we are being racist about it.. I was thinking.. instead of keeping you all here on the "third rock from the sun" We could let you all embrace allah at the Sun, itself! No muss, no fuss...no worrying about meals, blankets, etc. Then no more allaah allah bab yab ahaba naba saba yakjety smackety il llah haha turban winding, mournful music grinding.. yetch!

You think about which ship you want to be on..alright!

Odin be Praised! Baldur Save Us!

Defend Freedom of Speech

Submitted by Dana Iloff on Sat, 2006-02-04 10:18.

In the U.S we have a term, its called Political Correctness or simply "PC". PC dictates that you do not say or do anthing that might be offensive to anyone else. While I will agree that PC is a good idea in certian settings, i.e the work place, it is non the less an attack on the 1st Admendment (US constitutions Freedom of Speech). To limit one persons right to self expression because a particular group finds it offensive, sets a precident to limit that own groups rights when someone finds their expression offensive.

I applaude Denmark for not limiting her media's right to free speech.

I am sick and tired by my

Submitted by britmikh on Fri, 2006-02-03 09:08.

I am sick and tired by my liberty and freedoms getting stripped away by a crack pot religion ....if the muslims don't like criticism etc then they should stay out of our wonderfull countries, go back to thier dust hole destitute lands that are trapped in the dark ages and not engage with our civilised people or culture anymore. They are a bunch of hypocritical, back-stabbing lunatics and I would be glad to see the back of them!

to britmikh from nermin

Submitted by nermin on Sat, 2006-02-04 12:54.

Our countries are not living in dark and not dust hholes..come and see the gulf countries and see Dubai or Mora coo or Tunisia or shram elsheikh etc., before you pour your hatrede words…if our countries are bad why Clinton , and your Madonna have houses in Dubai and why blair is spending his chrismas vacation in sharm elsheikh for the the third consecutive years and why brad bitt and his anglina jolie was spending their vacation recently in ours….you are totally arrogant.
Donot forget that those Muslims you hate most live in Europe were welcomed by Europe to help in building after your damned world war I and II. As you cannot live without wars and blood.

Now after their mission is finished you want them out

dooms day!!

Submitted by Mr.khan on Fri, 2006-02-03 06:41.

now let the world see what you get in return for making fun of our religion.. scared you should be...

Look at Muslim demeanor

Submitted by Ethnocentrist on Fri, 2006-02-03 02:18.

Here is an Australian Video shortly after the Cronulla "riots". We see how discriminating, peaceful, civilized, and law abiding the Lebanese Muslims are in a white society. I'm sorry, however I do not believe they belong in any European territory. They have no respect for us, our laws, our people, our women, our children, our very existence. The only solution is a one way ticket back to camel-ville and by all means, they can take their "moderates" with them. This may sound harsh and "intolerant", however my children could easily have been the white young man in that video and simply have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. I simply like to state that 1) I do not live my life by haphazard luck and 2) I believe in survival. This is a war for survival and I'd like to place my bet on us.

Stop stealing our Oil

Submitted by Aman on Fri, 2006-02-03 03:19.

5000 thousand Australin drunk gangsters attacked few lebanese, and then you dare to say what you say.
Again no prblem but get out of our land first . if you do not like us then why your companies are in our oil fields, stop stealing our resources, and stop invading our countries.

yes freedom of speech-let's expose THE 'hollowcause' lie NOW!

Submitted by YOU're COOKED (not verified) on Fri, 2006-02-03 06:10.

Something fishy is going on...Have you found out 'bout the NYMEX/IPE,the worthless USDollar, and the MARCH '06 IRANIAN OIL BOURSE launch.You do know about what's going on? DO you have REAL FREE SPEECH and FREE KNOWLEDGE? Doubt so.

Mohammed Cartoons

Submitted by foreign devil (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 22:26.

Well...who's to say it's a picture of Mohammed anyway? I mean no one has seen him and it can only be a figment of the artist's imagination, so is he/she to be arrested for imagining 'Mohammed'? Like this one?
http://adobe.kodakgallery.com/Slideshow.jsp?mode=fromshare&Uc=br0315e.3s...

Only the artist saying it's a representation of 'Mohammed' makes it so and even then it's all subjective.

to forign devil

Submitted by IslaamIsPerfect on Sat, 2006-02-04 13:17.

hi u r right no one has seen prophet Muhammad saw n those pictures r just the imagination of the artists n artists can imagine things , but u see these artists rnt imagining a person in their normal sense but rather the artist is describing this person as a bomb maker , killer , evil looking monster , playing with a lil kid in a sexual way as well n so on , so u see this is where the problem lays n this cant be free speech by insulting a very powerful n well respected man in the history who is loved by more than 1 billion Muslims worldwide n to insult him or show such pictures ascribe to him

may Allaah guide u ameen

Is this Europe's Tiananmen Square moment?

Submitted by Joshua (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 20:59.

I've always wondered what will happen when Islamic supremacists finally reach the limits of the West's willingness to accommodate them. Well, it looks like we're about to find out. Not even 9/11/2001 itself was as direct a challenge to the Western way of life as the "Jyllands jihad." Like Tiananmen Square was for China, this is bound to be a defining moment for all of Europe.

Support for Denmark from North America

Submitted by foreign devil (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 20:24.

Here's some good news for the Danes and Europeans in general. Michelle Malkin's blog (link here: http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004436.htm)
but it's michellemalkin.com if this system doesn't print the link has a great piece on support for the Danes and the cartoonist for 'Day by Day' has drawn piglet courtesy of Disney who appeals to everyone to 'Buy Danish'! This should boost sales. Michelle is hugely popular, especially on the right. She is a Filippino-American who advocates using the internment camp system for jihadis and fellow-travellers and she has her head on straight! Please read what she has to say at her blog.

Thank G*d for the Danish Cartoons!

Submitted by foreign devil (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 19:47.

Ain't that the truth? I saw a piece on this at littlegreenfootballs.com and one of our posters has a montage of Mohammed engravings, woodcuts, etc. from historical times at zombietime.com under Mohammed Archive Montage and I sent the link to Jyllends Posten several days ago to let them know this was a ploy being used by the Muslims against the west. Iran wants us to give them what they want and they'll use their Muslims around the world to threaten us (or in Paris or Denmark) to get it. The youth are their 'shock troops' as demonstrated amply in Gaza and Paris last fall. This is just the latest tactic. DON'T KNUCKLE UNDER. You're not alone! Go to LGF (littlegreenfootballs.com) and find others who've been studying this problem for several years now. We have a lot to teach you! Islam's minions 'use' guilt tactics and many other forms of emotional blackmail as well as physical threats to get their way. RESIST!

forign devil

Submitted by IslaamIsPerfect on Sat, 2006-02-04 13:34.

u sad case ur nick suits ur brain n describes u perfectly u indeed r a devil n u know the definition of a devil??
Anyways mr devil which non Muslim country at present has Islam entered n killed its civilians ???n which Muslim country has cause the death of thousands of non Muslims in the west??? if u open ur eyes u big devil u will see that its the non Muslims using these tactics by doing 9/11 n other bombings n than blaming it on Muslims n than giving themselves the excuse of killing thousands of innocent Muslims n invading their country for stealing thier oil. stop accusing Muslims of wat u r guilty of urself
may Allaah guide u , u poor soul ameen

to danish people

Submitted by nermin on Thu, 2006-02-02 20:02.

You are now complaining from burning your flag and say it is a symbol of a nation…are you kidding .what about mocking a human being who is a great prophet respected an d loved and cherished by 1.5 billion muslims..where is the freedom of opinion….the flag which is apiece of cloth burned by ex president Clinton who burned his own flag as to express his anger from Vietnam war …you are arrogant double standard suffering from superiority complex .

Double standards

Submitted by Mort on Sat, 2006-02-04 12:38.

I say, as a Dane. Burning my flag, as a symbol
of your anger against my Nation, is your right. But many Muslims have said in this debate, that they would never mock other religions, simply because religion is so vital to their way of living. So I allso say,as a christian, are you not mocking my religion, by burning the Cross represented on the Danish flag? Is that not Double standards?

remember MORT free of speech burning flags

Submitted by bashar on Sat, 2006-02-04 15:06.

MORTY MORT why you do not accept burning your flag like these cartoon and take teh burning of your flag in a funny way isnt you guys the funniest people on earth you should be laughing that we are biycotting and burning your cross flag..freedom of speech and press..isnt so......

to mr mort from nermin

Submitted by nermin on Sat, 2006-02-04 12:46.

no mr mort, this Is absolutely different thing…you must know that muslims have never mock anyone …but also donot ask Muslims after you insulted them first to check before burning the flag if this flag contain Christians symbol or not.
Also you keep saying that you do not care about religion in Europe so why is that now about a piece of cloth…
I assure you that when Muslims burning your Danish flag they mean the Danish flag not your Christianity…