“All Women Should Wear A Veil”
From the desk of Filip van Laenen on Sun, 2007-04-15 15:36
According to Mostafa Chendid of the Danish Islamic Society (Islamisk Trossamfund), not only Muslim women but other women too should wear a veil. Why? Because five up to ten percent of all men cannot control themselves when they see a woman without a veil.
Mostafa Chendid is considered to be the successor of Ahmad Abu Laban, one of the imams who was involved in the affair around the notorious Danish cartoons. Ahmad Abu Laban was one of the leaders of the delegation that traveled around the Middle East and that had added three drawings to the original cartoons in its report to «give a clearer picture of the climate against Muslims in Denmark». Mostafa Chendid is doing well to become just as famous as his predecessor, and the interview that he recently gave to the Danish weekly newspaper Weekendavisen certainly isn't going to reduce the controversy around his person.
Earlier he had already succeeded to draw attention to himself by saying, on International Women's Day, to Jyllands-Posten (that's right: the newspaper with the cartoons) that not only Muslim women, but all other women too, should wear a veil. Of course, this resulted in a lot of reactions, and as a matter of fact his remarks in Jyllands-Posten were the direct reason for the interview with Weekendavisen, where he repeated them once more and commented on them. He said for example that wearing the veil is a woman's duty to God, because that is what the Koran says. However, that doesn't mean that he thinks that a woman with a veil is a better person than a woman without a veil.
According to him the veil also serves as a signal: women with a veil are «not for sale». Moreover, the veil protects against rapes, he says: in the US for example, every half minute a woman is raped, and according to him that is because women continuously tempt men by going onto the streets without a veil. Maybe not all men have a problem to control themselves when they see a woman without a veil, and perhaps there is only a problem with five to ten per cent of the men, but he says that is nevertheless enough for all women to wear the veil.
When asked whether men shouldn't cover themselves too, so they do not seduce women either, the imam basically evaded the question. Perhaps the journalist should have gone even further and asked if it wouldn't be much simpler if the men would stay inside and weren't allowed to go out unless accompanied by their wife or a female family member. After all, it's the men that are the problem, not the women. To me it seems rather bizarre that women should walk around with a veil because men can't control themselves. No doubt, it there wouldn't have been a prophet but a prophetess, Mostafa Chendid never would have set a step outside his door! Maybe it would have been better for Islam's image too if he wouldn't do that anyway.
Submitted by marcfrans on Fri, 2007-04-20 17:25.
@ Sam Iqbal
I have three specific points to make.
1) 'Perfektm' is not a "pal" of mine. I have no interest in "bashing" nor "baiting" of anything or anyone. If you cannot make a proper distinction between Perfktm's muslim-bashing and my attempts to discuss and/or clarify issues, that reflects only on your poor capacity to make observations intelligently.
2) I noted before that you engage in infantile name-calling, in the context of some silly list of labels you hung on Bush. Do you see me doing anything of the sort w.r.t. other politicians or characters that I may not like, e.g. Chirac, or Saddam, or Ahmadinejad, etc..? No, you do not. I may comment or express opinions on these people's actions and opinions, but I do not engage in your infantile and mindless sort of name-calling. That 's a big difference between us.
3) You are very good at making long lists of assertions on all kinds of matters. And you seem to think that your way of presenting these matters is 'THE truth', the only thruth. Your latest long list is again only impressive in its lenth and its naivete of presumed 'certainty'. That is what I called your propensity to "parrot" from a certain kind of media sources.
But you seem incapable of discussing in depth any of these issues. I selected 2 examples from your previous long list of presumed 'certainties', namely (1) the 'Cuban missile crisis' and (2) 'Grenada', to see if you would be able to express any thoughtful opinions about them (beyond your simple anti-American assertions). In vain, of course! In your response there is no mention of either of these 2 issues I selected from your previous list. All that came back was, as usual, a new very long list of assertions or 'charges'.
The conclusion is very clear. You are not really "confused", but rather you are very poorly informed on many issues. At the same time, you are also very 'sure' of yourself about almost anything you say. That is always a sign of dogmatic adherence to an ideology. You may think of yourself as "a secular and lapsed muslim", but you are still behaving and thinking very much like the typical muslim, as indeed many naive-left western secularists are too.
Submitted by perfektm on Fri, 2007-04-20 21:13.
>>'Perfektm' is not a "pal" of mine. I have no interest in "bashing" nor "baiting" of anything or anyone. If you cannot make a proper distinction between Perfktm's muslim-bashing and my attempts to discuss and/or clarify issues, that reflects only on your poor capacity to make observations intelligently.
Well Macfrancs, Iqbal knowns it very well that we are not pals.... anyways Bashing Islam is nothing like my hobby... its a need. anyways Iqbal knows it very well... every movement Muslims bash hindus, they get same reply back..... you can read the things in two ways...
anyways in this case, i m defending west, so he has to bash west next to me.... and i had replied in same language...... Please don't take it as offense, its a tradition from Asia.... you will find it in Israel, Arabia as well as in India. and we accepted it as a defense against the propaganda of Muslims.....
>>2) I noted before that you engage in infantile name-calling, in the context of some silly list of labels you hung on Bush. Do you see me doing anything of the sort w.r.t. other politicians or characters that I may not like, e.g. Chirac, or Saddam, or Ahmadinejad, etc..? No
this is your failure.... you are defending yourself, and if anyone touch me... i reply back with same aggression... but with more strength. you Americans haven't learned anything from cold war.... WW1 and WW2 was based on weapons, from Cold war onwards, the propaganda is more important then Weapons. if you won propoganda... you won this war, else new radical will born every movement. In case of Infantile name-calling.... me and Iqbal had already gone through that love affair.
Marcfrancs, it sounds strange... but what you are doing is surrender.... and what i m achieving in a stand still condition..... though i dont want to fight, but it also never means that i gave up. if someone wants peace, and he move one step... i will move 2. but if someone want to attack....then i will attack back with twice strength.
In short, Americans are missing the war at propaganda front. and they are taking defensive phase..... though Muslism broadcast that they are defending themselves. perhaps it sounds confusing... but rethink where you Americans went wrong. anyways i support democracy, but i don't support surrender. because if you surrender, then you will end up in a psuedo-democracy... where big fish eats small....
>>You are very good at making long lists of assertions on all kinds of matters. And you seem to think that your way of presenting these matters is 'THE truth', the only thruth. Your latest long list is again only impressive in its lenth and its naivete of presumed 'certainty'. That is what I called your propensity to "parrot" from a certain kind of media sources.
thanks for that comment, that blame was thrown on me from Iqbal. anyways Iqbal, as Marc said ,you are not well informed..... and beside this .. once you asked me that why i m supporting West. why i am supporting those, who enslaved us... then i will say, i m supporting democracies.... and i dont see people on basis of skin color and ethnicity or religion. I distinguish them by ideology.... and unfortunately majority of muslim world either support/conduct radicalism.... or either dont speak against it.
you are not well informed, and you are working as a propaganda puppet in hands of Jihadis. think again, it was Jihadi muslims, who killed 100 thousands Nigerian Muslims... just because they refused the radical brand of Islam. or should i point the time, why Egypitian discontinued the annual tradition to bring curtains to Mecca. wanna know why, because your Jihadi brothers have butchered 25 peoples from Egyptian clan, who had made annual pilgrimage to mecca to change curtains of Mecca. this was done, because Egyptian had used Music during there annual pilgrimage towards mecca. they brought the curtains with a band, thus celebrating the owner they got to transport curtains to mecca.
if still you think, you should be supporting the ideology of murders... which even had butchered those people... who were making pilgrimage to Mecca... then what else can i say for such moderate muslim.
Submitted by marcfrans on Thu, 2007-04-19 17:41.
I have already pointed earlier (in a response to Frank Lee under the thread "Is America the EU enforcer") to your deplorable degree of non-reasoning and infantile name-calling. And I have no intention of engaging in any serious 'discussion' with you. However, I will illustrate again how terribly superficial - and even malicious - are your type of media-parroting.
Take the example of your reference to Cuba. Perhaps you are too young to fully comprehend the past reality of the Cold War, but anyone who wants to make public comments on a public forum should at least have some rudimentary knowledge of historical facts before doing so. No serious person can deny that, IN THE CONTEXT of the Cold War, the decision to install soviet nuclear missiles 40 miles off the coast of Florida "posed a threat to US national security". Yet, you manage to do such a thing. I suggest that you read a serious book on the subject of the "Cuban missile crisis", before parroting nonsense on this or any forum.
The other examples on your list are just as superficially misrepresented, but if we have to take them all we would go on forever having to remove all your misconceptions. Take the 'easiest' one of 'Grenada'. Again no serious person would claim that Grenada posed a security risk to the USA. Yet you set up this ridiculous false 'strawman'. Grenada did not represent a security risk, but does that mean that it should be ignored? When a marxist thuggish vice-premier walked into a cabinet meeting with a 'detail' of hired goons and shoots the whole cabinet to take violently over the whole island, should the neighbors ignore that? Have you lost all sense of morality, sir? No wonder, Reagan intervened in conjunction with the East Caribbean Community to restore Grenada and its 'democracy'.
I am quite willing to believe that you are a "secular person and a lapsed muslim". While I don't care about the 'lapsed muslim' part, I certainly wish that you could be a "secular" person and keep some common sense intact. But, reading the stuff that you parrot from some of the most ridiculous western so-called 'secular' media, one wonders what is most threatening to the survival of western freedoms: the fantasies of 'muslims' or the perverse self-hatred of many 'secular westerners'! It is easy to understand that many 'Easterners' could easily get confused by all the freedoms in the western world, particularly the freedom to say and publish nonsensical opinions. It is therefore incumbent upon you to choose your 'sources' wisely, and above all use your brains to override your all-too-facile emotions.
@Perfektm & Marc F
Submitted by Sam Iqbal on Fri, 2007-04-20 13:06.
P: "and in holocaust Muslim were more active then Christians...."
Sam: Give me a break. This truly proves that you write nothing but utter shite.
P: "Indian Masscare.... how can i miss that.... 60 million innocent peoples died under Islamic jihad sword ...."
Sam: Can we look at Central and South American holocaust under Cortes and Pizzaro?
It’s OK I’m only joking. I don’t expect you've even thought about it.
P: " you haven't condemn your facist state of Saudi Arabia.... "
Sam: Agreement at last. Saudi is a facist state and the House of Saud should be removed irrespective of the damage done to the global economy. P.S Correct me if I'm wrong but is this not one of Al-Quaeda’s main objectives?
MF: “It is easy to understand that many 'Easterners' could easily get confused by all the freedoms in the western world, particularly the freedom to say and publish nonsensical opinions. It is therefore incumbent upon you to choose your 'sources' wisely, and above all use your brains to override your all-too-facile emotions.”
Sam: You mean the trashy Islamophobic Muslim baiting websites that your ‘pal’ Perfektm uses.
You accuse me of being superficial. Your dedicated resources and insidious moral perspective have forgotten the following:
Start wars of aggression by deceit, (Iraq & Afghanistan)
Perpetrate false flag and surrogate terror attacks , (Iraq & Afghanistan)
Cause the death of over 1,000,000 civilians (Iraq & Afghanistan)
Cause over 4,000,000 refugees internally displaced or to flee the country
De-stabalise the entire Middle East
Destroy a country (Iraq)
Use irradiated weapons DU(causing long term illness and deaths to civilians and even your own troops)
Using other banned weapons application such as White Phosphorous & cluster bombs (Iraq & Lebanon, Afghanistan)
Torture (Guantanamo, Iraq, etc.)
Summary execution (Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.)
Kidnapping (Extraordinary Rendition)
Illegal detention without any process (Guantanamo, Iraq, etc.)
Support for terrorist organisations (Nicaragua, Guatemala, Panama, Afghanistan)
Plan nuclear attack on non-nuclear and non belligerent country (Iran)
Kidnap a head of state to support an armed coup by gangsters (Haiti)
I won’t even start on South America or South East Asia.
Lastly, I need to go lie down now, all this freedom is really making me dizzy and confused.
breaking Jihadi taqiyya.. part 1
Submitted by perfektm on Thu, 2007-04-19 06:23.
Abraham Lincoln once said, "You can fool all the people
some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot
fool all the people all the time.". He might not have known it
at the time, but what he was talking about was occupation, and definitely he had no idea that i will use his phrase to answer a Jihadi in breaking his Taqiyya lies.
>>In any case, both countries belong to the citizens of the
world and definitely not to any single religion, not least Islam,
Judaism or Hinduism.
Nice, at last you understand that both countries (ISRAEL and INDIA)
are democracies.... and so do other countries in West. so will you put
any comments about fascist state of Saudi Arabia. as well as various other
Muslim states, on behalf of whom you Jihadis are supporting evil law
system named sharia.... and what do you think of freedom of religion?
equivalent rights of infidels ?
>>Kashmir & Palestine are national self determination movements not Jihad.
Somehow, the world has been fooled for far too long into believing
the root cause of the Israeli-Arab conflict, as well as Kashmir
conflict.... you Muslim blame it as occupation. and many Muslims like
you from across the world flee to fight "Infidels".
and they claim we are defending Ourself... I m breaking the backbone of this Ourself tag, which you say is nationalist movement, and i say is Jihadi movement. Anyways what ever it is, it sound similar ..... Hitler also claimed that he was
defending himself, as well as Germany, when it attacked Poland.
anyways i want to ask you that how many times can i replace that
''X's terror is due to occupation'' (replace ''X'' with a wide variety
of Islamic Freedom fighter groups...) or ''end the occupation and there
will be no terror,'' etc.? and other bla bla from Jihadi Scums...
anyways Israel withdrew from Lebanon six years ago. It withdrew from
Gaza last year. The Palestinians in Gaza began launching rockets at
Israel the moment it left. They methodically built a tunnel that they
used to launch an attack inside Israel. Even more unbelievably, they
didn't bother to take the opportunity of the end of occupation to
better the lives of the Palestinian people in Gaza. So much for the
often-heard claim that the Palestinians had voted in Ham-ass to avoid
the corruption of other potential leaders and not due to their desire
to destroy Israel. despite this, Palestine enjoys largest per capita
help from West, still they have no food to eat. where the whole money
drains ? from where you get this money to launch rockets and to plan
bomb blast in West. Clearly, the end of the occupation, there wasn't
seen as ''the end'' of the conflict by Palestinians – more as a ''means
to an end.''
so any comments ? there is no valid grounds here to validate that
this is national movement.anyways here is the Truth behind Palestine is here....
check what you Muslims have done to small children's, Austrian Hitler had
done worst with German children's... but what Muslims are doing to
there own children's.... I think even your Allah will get ashamed for having
breaking Jihadi taqiyya.. part 2
Submitted by perfektm on Thu, 2007-04-19 06:25.
and this is what you do in Kashmir.... and Kashmir is not about only Hindus, why you forgot that when you Muslims Butchers entered Kashmir from pakistan in 1947, and started Kashmir conflict... you Muslim 1st butchered Buddhist, completely erasing the complete existence of Non-violent Kashmiri Buddhist. oops i just forgot... you are still active in butchering Buddhist in Thailand... south Thailand insurgency in itself speaks a lot, how much Muslims want to live in peace with others.
Yes you got some resistance from Hindus, and perhaps that the confict. Let me come to the straight point, the whole base of the conflict lies on a simple sentence.... "Islam means surrender, not peace". Islam want to dominate others, enslave others..... where either the minorities have to live like a slave, or as a second class citizen.... where they need to pay tax to obey the religion, which is other then Islam.
beside this, development of Taliban and Kashmir freedom movement
is so tightly packed... that again your claim voids here..... if i am
right, the LeT(advertised as Kashmirs freedom movement group in media)
never asked for Kashmir freedom.... go check your Mosque libraries, you
will get the reality by your Jihadi Imam too. If Media misguide people,
that never means that the truth will never come in light. anyways if i
am right, the **so called Kashmir freedom fighters, and High ranking
Taliban officials manage family links.... in short, they fu*k each
other family members.... Oh, what should i say for a polygamy
society.... F*ck each other family, or fu*k inside your own family...
till when you will hide behind the tag "national self determination
movement", though we know that all these movements are centrally
connected with a localized Racist mentality... known as Islam. it is
binded by Medina Koran(PS Mecca koran predates and is peaceful, but voids itself by median koran)..... and this is also the factor why many
Muslims kill innocent across the globe.
beside this, something more strange is that Wahabi/salafi Islamic
movement, whose strain is found in almost all conflicted places like
Kashmir, Palestine, Chechen, Serbia falls under Hanafi law system. the
base rule religious rule oppose the concept of National boundary... in
fact the father of Pali-National Movement, or the founder of Modern
terror outfits (including terror outfits in kashmir)... Haji Mohammed
Amin al husseini, had itself raised the words of global caliphet. Baath
party history after WW2 in itself lays the ground points to understand
the things. and one of the goal of Baath party is to remove liberals
and Jews from Arabic subcontinent... and then expand the imperialism
around the world. anyways sir in long run, the picture is getting
>>Who is "we"? How have people lived in peace since WW2? What facts are you referring to?
why i said "We"; We means Non-Jihadis, i was not
referring a Jihadi like you. Jihadi Scums will not respect the UN
decisions taken after WW2. Foundation of Israel was laid on UN
resolution... and the main reason of UN resolution after WW2 was to lay
the peace in world, but we know that some Peoples (mainly Jihadis)
never want to live in Peace... Dafur or Kashmir... Israel or
Chechen..... everyone is victim of Jihads evil mentality...
What ever you say, don't forget that Partition of India and
Partition of Israel was laid at same time period. If you claim Israel
to be a Arab state because Muslims use to live in that land... so why
don't Muslims should leave all those places like Spain and Kashmir and
so on.... which is holy to other religions. and beside this the claim
of Muslims on those places contradict heavily from there own claims
about Palestine. the only difference is that Non-Muslims want to sort
things with Peace... and Religion of Peace® has only peace in
In fact, i m speaking the same language what Jihadis want to hear.
language of love, which Gandhi had used was not meant for Islam.....
now don't say, that there is no imperial dream of Islamic radicalism.... and they are not willing to mount a Global caliphet.
Submitted by Sam Iqbal on Thu, 2007-04-19 11:13.
Firstly, you misunderstand me. At no point have I condoned Islamic radicalism, merely pointed out that not everything is as shockingly black and white as you paint it.
For you, no-one is to blame but Muslims. Every problem is religious. This is my problem with your posts. Never have you acknowledged the legitimate grievances of either Palestinians or Kashmiris. On one hand you claim to be peaceful and moderate but judging from your posts you are entirely the opposite of what you claim. Hence, you speak with a forked tongue and in my mind you are a dangerous individual who just parrots the crap you read from various Islamophobic websites in order to satisfy and consolidate your hatred for a hugely diverse community which equals 20-23% of the worlds population.
My take on you is that you are the foolish type, part of the public daft enough to believe that Cuba was a threat to US national security and nearly destroyed the planet because of it. Who believed that communists were hiding everywhere trying to undermine the whole of American and Western society. Who believed in the 'domino' theory about South-East Asia and backed the war in Vietnam. Who believed Reagan when he told them "Libyan hit men are prowling the streets of Washington" and that "Nicaragua had planes that could reach Florida", and that Grenada was a threat. Who were scared shitless by the 'Millenium Bug'. Who thought that Iraq was on the verge of attacking the UK in 45 minutes and was responsible for 9/11. Who now believe Iran is about to nuke them and spout the Zionist funded myth of Eurabia to justify an attack on Islam and its people. In 5 years time, we will be hearing of the "threat" of a resurgent Russia and in 20 years of a Chinese takeover of the planet. Perhaps in 50 years the focus may well be on Indian "theft" of Western jobs. Is it any wonder that I feel people like you have nothing but contempt for the truth? The truth is as long as you scare the shit out of the public, they'll believe any crap you feed them.
Another thing, here is an old Arab proverb which you would do well to remember.
'A generous soul is bought when it receives, a vile one returns good done with disease.'
Your response to another's good toward you determines your nature. If good in nature, you will respond with indebtedness and respect; if vile, with resentment and envy. Hence, if this is indeed true, then botched Western foreign policy may just have something to do with the anger and resentment felt by SOME Muslims towards countries such as the US and Israel.
Lastly, you accuse me of Taqqiya. In Europe, for instance, Muslims from many different racial and cultural backgrounds feel a certain affinity with one another - just as many Jews in America do, and are lumped together. I am a secular person and a lapsed Muslim, but I cannot deny my Islamic socio-cultural heritage and the influence it has had on me.
However, what is most interesting is people like you who wish to prevent the democratic process and free speech by shouting "Jihadi" at anyone of a Muslim background who has the audacity to disagree with you and "Jihadi sympathiser" at any non-Muslim who may disagree with you. Now, that is dangerous and reason enough why people like me take the time to post on websites such as the BJ.
Thanks for nice lecture
Submitted by perfektm on Fri, 2007-04-20 06:22.
Thanks for nice lecture Iqbal.. so from where to start..
>>'A generous soul is bought when it receives, a vile one returns good done with disease.'
thats a nice suggestion, but haven't Muslim already betrayed the love of Gandhi. you divided the dream of Gandhi...and that too in his life time.... so why should we put faith in Muslims, as we know, that if we give a finger for help, Muslims cut the whole hand apart... u Muslims are not behaving like Humans... sorry but its true.
>>what is most interesting is people like you who wish to prevent the democratic process and free speech by shouting "Jihadi" at anyone of a Muslim background who has the audacity to disagree with you and "Jihadi sympathiser" at any non-Muslim who may disagree with you. Now, that is dangerous and reason enough why people like me take the time to post on websites such as the BJ.
look at good side that BJ don't ban you... i wonder, will this be allowed on any Muslim site...
respect this freedom.... and if you can't respect the freedom... then go and live in slavery in your Arabic world.
And What with Muslim, I asked you to condemn fascist state of Saudi Arabia. where are condemnation, and in fact when you speak.. you always bash against West. and I bash against Islam. why should i bash against west? sorry but its only Muslims who don't speak against Jihadis... if radical Hindu exist, we Hindus speak against them. if it was Nazis from west, then it was west, which had fought the Nazis.... and what else, if it is Jihadis... then Muslims are supporting them instead of fighting them...
if some hell place occurs in earth.... then that is with Islam.
In short, i m not a westerner... yet i m with west. because its Islam provoking conflicts in world. and Muslims are just propaganda machines....
what ever Iqbal.... i already told you in past, what happened in India in past... i will not let it repeat.... you speak of Crusade, holocaust and so on to blame Muslim.... then crusade was a provoked fight when Muslim burned holiest church of Christian dome.... and in holocaust Muslim were more active then Christians....
ref : www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com
and last but not least... Indian Masscare.... how can i miss that.... 60 million innocent peoples died under Islamic jihad sword ....
ref : http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/modern/moghal_atro.html
and if this was not enough, then this is what you are doing in modern world..
@Iqbal - the AntiBush/AntiBlair/AntiWest
Submitted by perfektm on Fri, 2007-04-20 06:39.
Uh oh, Iqbal....
one more thing, Media had invited now Hindus too in this war, as they used south Asians Tag now.... so As a south Asian, in a state of war..... i had to choose one side, and i had choosen one side...... and my side is, i m against Jihadis.
Iqbal... its well know from your ideology... that you are a jihadi.... else why you haven't condemn your facist state of Saudi Arabia.... instead you were condeming West.
so let Europe need to know, what really drives the people to commit this Anti-Western acts....
here is my Answer...
Hope Instead of saying you are "Anti-West", next time you will say... you are ashamed to be a Muslim....
have a nice time Iqbal.
anyways Iqbal... from which clan are you...
and which Group do you repersent....
Deobandi, Tablighi or something else...
Submitted by Yitzhak on Tue, 2007-04-17 09:35.
Now this statement or view of Danish Islamic society person Danes should file a petition to Danish Government such lunatics should be put in psychological facility and should be removed from society immediately. Only an insane person would express such stupidities.
Not just a Muslim problem
Submitted by Nataraja on Mon, 2007-04-16 13:32.
Could it be that some criticism might have more effect on Muslim communities if they were brought in from a broader perspective? Misogyny and women hiding from men, for example through headcover, is no islam-only problem. It is a shared feature in every monotheistic textual tradition (not even mentioning some resurgent Hindu movements promoting sati (widow self-immolation) to the unlettered masses). For those who didnt grew up with the Word:
6 If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head,[b] since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man." (1 Corinthians 11)
"Yes but we grew out of that". Did we? Although indeed not very widespread in the Christian world today (except some monasteries in eastern Europe, and in a few isolated evangelical communities), you never know what might come up, such as : http://www.headcoverings.com/Jones2.htm
A broader formulated criticism might at least avoid the pathological self-victimization process that is currently the biggest impediment to open critical debate with muslim communities at large.
Which Sex Should Wear the Veil?
Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Mon, 2007-04-16 03:10.
"When asked whether men shouldn't cover themselves too, so they don't seduce women either, the imam basically evaded the question. But maybe the journalist should have gone even further and asked if it wouldn't be much simpler if the men would stay inside and weren't allowed to go out unless accompanied by their wife or a female family member. After all, it's the men that are the problem, not the women, and to me it seems rather bizarre that women should walk around with a veil because men can't control themselves. No doubt, it there wouldn't have been a prophet but a prophetess, Mostafa Chendid never would have set a step outside his door! Maybe it would have been better for Islam's image too if he wouldn't do that anyway."
I agree that the gender roles in Islamic societies and communities should be reversed. Muslim women probably appreciate attractive males, however, they do not feel compelled to harass, humiliate, discriminate against, sexually assault or commit violence against Western men. Nor do I really believe that covering blonde and blue-eyed girls in veils will change Muslim males' behavior towards them; these "difficult youths" (from Sydney to Stockholm) seem to have a major White fetish complex.
All Women Should Wear a Veil
Submitted by Jude on Sun, 2007-04-15 21:52.
And then all boys.
All that is needed is a veil
Submitted by allrizz on Sun, 2007-04-15 20:03.
I guess even if a women was totally nude as long as she was wearring a veil she wouldn't get rapped. Wow islam does it again. Not only did they invent algebra but they figured out how to stop rape the world over.
Monkeys and Humans
Submitted by perfektm on Sun, 2007-04-15 22:34.
Why we don't give human rights to Animals? because they can't control themselves. a monkey will always stole a banana... and thus can't obey the rule....
Islam says that Jews evolve from monkeys....nice, we all humans are....
but i will say, Muslims degraded from humans to Monkeys... as they can't control themselves....
thank god, he was not representing all minorities; anyways, i think the 10% he was pointing in this message were 10% minority of Europe... which are Quite famous for burning and exploding transport facilities....
hey, we Indians HINDUS invented algebra... not Islam. they only had linked east and west... thus are just converting things from one language to another....
your UK Muslim brothers say that non-muslims are like booty. if you get them alone, then they are like cow... you can sell them in market.
so here you said, "women with a veil are «not for sale»."
so do you have any more comments for us non-muslims. should we hang a board in our necks that we kufirs are not for sale.....
source of Reference : Here
@ Pefektm - Just to clarify
Submitted by Sam Iqbal on Tue, 2007-04-17 14:20.
Abu Abdullah Muhammad bin Musa al-Khwarizmi, (flourished early 9th century), was a Persian scientist, mathematician, and author. He may have been born around 800; and died in 845, or around 840.
He was born in the town of Khiva, in Khorasan province of Persia (now in Uzbekistan). The name al-Khwarizmi means the person from Khwarizm. His family moved soon afterward, to a place near Baghdad, where he accomplished most of his work in the period between 813 and 833. There are various guesses at his native languages, including Persian or more probably Khwarezmian (an extinct Iranian language). Al-Khwarizimi wrote all his works in Arabic, the language of science in the Islamic world of his time.
He developed the concept of an algorithm in mathematics, and is thus sometimes given the title of grandfather of computer science. The words "al-gorithm" and "al-gorism" derive ultimately from his name.
He also made major contributions to the fields of algebra, trigonometry, astronomy, geography and cartography. His systematic and logical approach to solving linear and quadratic equations gave shape to the discipline of algebra, a word that is derived from the name of his 830 book on the subject, Hisab al-jabr wa al-muqabala.
While his major contributions were the result of original research, he also did much to synthesise the existing knowledge in these fields from Greek, Egyptian, Indian, and other sources. He appropriated the place-marker symbol of zero, which originated in India, and he is also responsible for the use of Arabic numerals in mathematics.
Al-Khwarizmi systematized and corrected Ptolemy's research in geography, using his own original findings. He supervised the work of 70 geographers to create a map of the then "known world". When his work became known in Europe through Latin translations, his influence made an indelible mark on the development of science in the West: His algebra book introduced that discipline to Europe and became the standard mathematical text at European universities until the 16th century. He also wrote on mechanical devices like the clock, astrolabe, and sundial. His other contributions include tables that included trigonometric functions, refinements in the geometric representation of conic sections, and aspects of the calculus of two errors.
Algebra was brought from ancient Babylon, Greece, Egypt and India – revolutionised and expanded by the Arabs and brought to Europe via Italy by the Arabs.
So Perfektm, modern day mathematics that we know today has many origins. It is not a “Hindu invention” and the above is accpeted fact certainly not Islamic propaganda.
@sam iqbal.... I love Jihadi propoganda... but this is too much.
Submitted by perfektm on Tue, 2007-04-17 20:52.
so Mr. Grand father of Computers, do you know something about Pāṇini..... he was born and had laid the foundation of Modern computing algorithms around 400 BC.... that was the time, when your Mohamed was not creeping his ass on this earth.....
anyways sir, Islam translated Indian Arabic system.... instead of saying that they corrected it.
Put your great concern on this sentence ..
"Like the Hindus, the Arabs worked freely with irrationals. However they took a backward step in rejecting negative numbers in spite of having learned of them from the Hindus."
Its really a great way to revolutionize math, that is to chop it. and revolutionized Idea from Muslims that by removing negative numbers one can clean the mistakes is really hilarious.... thanks for showing common sense Sam....
I really think sometimes its far batter to be peoples of books, then being people of Allah...
& Last but not least, I really think that Islam cleans the mistakes of everyone... West is imperial, colonialist and so on...so u bomb blast. Indians use Music, so u bomb blast. Buddhist are Pagans, so u bomb blast. Jews are apes and pigs according to koran, so u bomb blast.... can you tell me, who is really trying to be the Police of this world then Americans or Briatin or Muslims?
Muslims blame that Jews kill Christians & Muslims children for religious festivals, but you literally do this next to camera with satanic versus...
I really have to think "what good Mohammad brought to this world?"
Perhaps your Jihadi head can explain me....
Submitted by Sam Iqbal on Wed, 2007-04-18 09:50.
In that case, perhaps you should start a petition to change the name "Algebra" to "Bud-bud bra".
thanks for your Jihadi idea
Submitted by perfektm on Wed, 2007-04-18 12:15.
well, we are not from your clan of Jihadis... who are greedy....
We respect past, as well as we respect present.... not like you, who want to claim everything... on a cost of millions of life....
if i am right, your claim for Kashmir and your claim for Palestein contradict horribly.... can you please tell me, which one is legimitable. if Palestein belongs to Islam... then Kashmir belongs to Hindus. and if Kashmir belongs to Muslims, then Palestein belongs to Jews.
what ever, we respect internaltinal rules founded after WW2... so everyone can live in peace.... but it seems that some jihadi scums are not in a mental state of digesting the facts... Greeds of Muslims are the main source of tranny...
Algebra is a name accepted in honor, because the muslims had transfered the Algera around world(a art bounded mainly in indian subcontinent)... but i think work of you Jihadis will definately mark a black point....
what ever, if you wish to change the name of Algebra to Bud-Bud-bra... then go on, sign a petition.... I will only say "Inshah-Allah" ... and will wait for you to say "Damn Allah"
Submitted by Sam Iqbal on Wed, 2007-04-18 12:57.
Your rants are always good for a laugh.
Kashmir & Palestine are national self determination movements not Jihad. If you cannot see this then your interpretation of present day geo-politics are shameful and ignorant to say the least. However, I accept that certain fringe elements have used Islam to propagate the notion of Jihad on the basis that Muslims are being victimised.
In any case, both countries belong to the citizens of the world and definitely not to any single religion, not least Islam, Judiasm or Hinduism. For example, most rational people including (shock, horror) the vast majority of Muslims recognise that Palestine is a place holy to Christians, Jews as well as Muslims and that Kashmir is a place which is also revered by Hindus. This is fact.
As for the rest of your mad rant, could not make any sense of it, particularly:
"what ever, we respect internaltinal rules founded after WW2... so everyone can live in peace.... but it seems that some jihadi scums are not in a mental state of digesting the facts... Greeds of Muslims are the main source of tranny..."
Who is "we"? How have people lived in peace since WW2? What facts are you refering to?
I ask this because I completely fail to understand any of your logic.
Submitted by peter vanderheyden on Mon, 2007-04-16 09:03.
"hey, we Indians HINDUS invented algebra... not Islam."
You, perfectm, didn't invent anything, and certainly not Algebra. Equally I have no talent in painting what so ever, although Rubens and Van Eyck were “Members” of my culture.
Stop identifying with the group you belong to, and try to be a whole person on your own. If everybody would do that, there would be no need for sectarian, cultural and racist violence.
Submitted by perfektm on Mon, 2007-04-16 12:26.
I like your viewport...
but the comment was not placed as a racist view, but rather to disfuse the propoganda... that says Arabic algerbra is invented by Arabic Muslims.
For sure, thinking like a identity is wrong, as it was work of a whole group and generation of indians, and i am no where directly answerable with them... except they were somewhere my ancestors.
so if you remind me of that, then i also want to remind the west, that We Indians haven't fought British, we fought a Ideology that does not treat human as human. west really forgot to look that when they invaded india, then they clashed with another sort of Imperial colonism... named as such Mughal empire or simply the Muslims were also invaders in india....
But Ach... West is still sleeping in White Guilt, where they might need to learn "Evil has to be fought", they learned "fighting is evil". what ever, my mistake was word "We Indian Hindus"... Perhaps i might have to use "Indian Hindus". As i was not the inventer....
and West mistake is "We Impreial colonialist", where they need to refer "Imperial colonist" to refer the generation of those peoples who are dead and gone.
Wake up, modern West is not Imperial, nor it is colonial. The blame is set on America, which itself is one of the least imperial nation in entire Human history.
We need to Unite East and West..... and this time i really mean "We"... the people from east as well as west. we need to learn from each other... and have to hold the tounge of those, who seek excuse of blame others, justify voilence and murders .... and are promoting terrorism...
Submitted by Yitzhak on Tue, 2007-04-17 09:26.
Its very nice that you are advocating for uniting East with West. But reality is bit different. I am afraid to say there is no “WE”. Eastern Civilization and Western Civilization are two very different realities. Our culture, Heritage history etc is very different then east. Unification is only between people who share common history, culture and heritage.
Of course Western world should cooperate with East for elimination of terror threat. But cooperation and unification are two very different things. Threat from Islamofascists is nothing new for western civilization. Europe stood up and had faced this threat through out the history weather its siege of Vienna or Moorish rule in Spain. Europe is perfectly capable of handling any kind of threat without any outside help. I don’t believe that this demagogish view that one day Islamofascists will be ruling Europe is anywhere closer to reality. European Muslim masses can fantasies whatever they like to fantasies about.
In the end I say East is East with its own culture, history and heritage, which is completely different. Cooperation between East and West on cretin points YES but unification a BIG NO……
Submitted by logicalman on Sun, 2007-04-15 20:01.
1. Rape is a crime in most non-muslim countries, veil or no veil. It's an infringement to rapee's freedom and right to security.
2. Quoting the Quran discredits Mostafa right away. Satanic verses have no place in civilized world.
3. Predominant criteron for becoming an imam is memorization of the Quran, not much of qualification for stating edicts for societies.
The "uncontrollable" men
Submitted by Mystery Meat on Sun, 2007-04-15 17:14.
Wouldn't it be easier to castrate the "uncontrollable" men?