Is Christianity to Blame for Europe’s Demise?

A quote from Conservative Swede at his blog, 6 August 2007

We are witnessing the historical demise of Christianity. When a star dies, in its last phase it expands into a red giant, before it shrinks into a white dwarf. Liberalism is the red giant of Christianity. And just as a red giant it is devoid of its core, it expands thousandfold while losing its substance and is about to die. [...]

I do not know if the news have reached the English speaking world, but Muslim immigration has increased in Denmark the last five years (as reported by Snaphanen). Yes, the "extreme far-right" "near Nazi" immigration laws of Denmark inspired by the Danish People's Party has lead to more Turks and Pakistanis. This is the way it goes in the world of liberals/Christians. [...]

I can see exactly how creeping dhimmitude happens, as described by Bat Ye'or, when Christianity gets confronted with Islam. Christianity has two sides, the left side and the right side, and both are inviting Islam while trying to defeat each other. Muhammad's brain child is a perfect organism to parasitize on Christianity.


Thanks for the link. I had to chuckle when I got to the first full page of the article. Halfway down, there is an ad which pictures a plate with bacon and eggs...!


Your analysis is spot on.In fact,some of my closest friends are Muslims,and they often act more 'Christian' than most so-called Christians I know.


Apologies for the delay in my response and thank you for your comments.I agree that the list is not very large but I'd like to think that you'd agree with me when I say that such a list makes an excellent propaganda tool for Islam.Furthermore,with the exception of any 'hoaxes and frauds',(see: the genuine converts cited here could not be seen as being forced into conversion,nor do they appear to be individuals lacking in basic intelligence.In short,I believe that this challenge to Christianity is much greater than many would wish to believe and that they ignore it at their peril.




I agree that such lists are excellent propaganda tools or even, to take a lighter view of lists like that, just an excellent way to introduce someone to a position that is foreign to them. It is very useful to be able to say: "Look not every Muslim is a homicidal, bomb-carrying maniac; some are rather intelligent, urbane and come from positions in normal life where they excelled. Indeed, some are just like you or like people who have made some good impression on you." Similar lists exist for other religions, and often are assembled on position papers. Whenever actors, scientists, politicians, religious leaders, etc. put their names on position papers, it seems to me that they want to do the same thing; groups other than Muslims use lists like this for that same reason.

The challenge to Christianity from Islam is great; not however because they can assemble lists of names names like this, but rather because the historic Christian churches in Europe and America are struggling due to theological confusion, lack of confidence of their members - especially clergy, failed or compromised catechesis and a host of other problems. Modern Evangelicalism, while containing a good deal of energy, is more or less the emotional wing of Protestantism. As such, it cannot offer a consistent or strong intellectual answer to Islamic apologists; and so the uneducated, lacking a coherent and intellectual religious framework, are more susceptible to their proselytizing. Add to this the confidence, simplicity, and facade of unity in Islam and it poses a significant challenge indeed.


I agree with your analysis of Christianity's challenges. Perhaps the "confusion" we see in its theology is a reflection of the West's own mental illness or "mind plague".

GK Chesterton said:

When a religious scheme is shattered (as Christianity was shattered at the Reformation), it is not merely the vices that are let loose. The vices are, indeed, let loose, and they wander and do damage. But the virtues are let loose also; and the virtues wander more wildly, and the virtues do more terrible damage. The modern world is full of the old Christian virtues gone mad. The virtues have gone mad because they have been isolated from each other and are wandering alone. Thus some scientists care for truth; and their truth is pitiless. Thus some humanitarians only care for pity; and their pity (I am sorry to say) is often untruthful.

@Atlanticist911 regarding converts

Not a very large list, and spread through a number of centuries for the priests and missionaries section. Also, at least one of those listed there, i.e. the "Coptic Cardinal" is fraudulent. Goethe, at the end of his life, reportedly identified not with Islam, but with the Hypsistarians.

For the Cardinal, see:

An interesting (if true) but not often cited figure about conversion to and from Islam in Russia is found in this news story:

Is it really dying?

Speak for yourself.Christianity is alive and well across the globe.
Shut up for the rest. Living in Sweden, you probably have to wait until the breakfast time to have your gonades finally handed back to you by the Lady of the House.

Roman Catholic 89.8% (about 75% practicing), Eastern Orthodox 1.3%, Protestant 0.3%, other 0.3%, unspecified 8.3% (2002)

Roman Catholic 80.9%, Muslim 5%, Evangelical 2.8%, Iglesia ni Kristo 2.3%, Aglipayan 2%, other Christian 4.5%, other 1.8%, unspecified 0.6%, none 0.1% (2000 census)

Croats, Montenegrins, Serbs, Slovenians, all of them mostly Christians. Czech, Slovaks, Slovenians, Austrians......

For example, Hungary is very similar in size of the population compared to Sweden, and to be honest it's just a bit more populated country and the number of declared Christians is around 75% compared to Swedish Lutherans hovering around 87%. Yet, they don't feel the need to meet in the pub and discuss how opressed they are.
Maybe Swedish (men, - a loose definition) should focus on defending their own turf instead of blaming everyone else for the demise of Vikings sans Gonades....


Conservative Swede manages to limp along with parochial assertions that Christianity is dying...

Hello? Europe is dying, not Christianity. If you look at China, Africa, North, Central and South America, you will find that Christianity is growing and thriving. In fact, the Catholic Church calls Nigeria the "new Ireland", for all the priests coming out of that country.

Perhaps you ought to travel more...

Have fun in Nigeria

I have always described the Western civilization as the Christian civilization. And this is what I'm talking about. It's Western Christian civilization that is dying.

And Atheling. As you said, traveling is good for you. Go to Nigeria and study this Catholic dream of a new Ireland. Make sure to spend time in the norther parts.

Reality (and spell) Check

"norther"? Do you mean "northern"?

No, sir, you said "Christianity is dying". You didn't say "Western Christian civilization"!!!

Don't try to misconstrue or divert the issue. The article you posted fails to note that Christianity is alive and well in other parts of the world, which would contradict your assertion. That point which I and another commenter made below has yet to be addressed by you. Instead, you engage in straw man tactics.

I don't know how old you are, or what kind of education you've had, but really, your inability to reason or debate logically astonishes me. Why are you posting on this site?

Well, if you do not care...

No, why care about how the Western civilization is dying when there are more important things? Like how I misspelled "northern".

I'm glad it makes you happy how Christianity is spreading in the Third World. In these times of sunset, we'll all look for something to find comfort in. But you should take a closer look at your optimistic view of some places, e.g. Nigeria.

The Author

Conservative Swede needs to learn about the Crusades.

Europe's demise and dhimmitude is not a result of Islam confronting Christianity. It's a result of Islam confronting secular atheism.

No just the Dark Ages and the Fall of Rome

I am personally convinced that Christianity and the persecution of Greek and Roman scientists and ALL other religions is responsible for the Dark Ages.  Christianity has been more of less in check since Martin Luther and Henry 8th in northern europe.  From this I think you can blam Christianity directly for the lack of development in southern europe and Latin America. Every sperm is sacred of course. Secular science based reasoning is the only antidote to religious extremism.

@Amsterdamsky on Christianity and progress

"In check" is an odd way to refer to an institution that has had such widespread and diverse activities; anything from running the local hospital or school or college to ending slavery (Yes, in northern Europe too, and after Martin Luther). Not that these or any of the other countless examples matter. . . Of course, "lack of development" in southern Europe has only lead to France, Spain and Italy being among the top ten economies in the world. "Lack of development" has been responsible for Latin America moving from nothing to at least more than nothing. "Lack of development" has only produced a large array of scientists and mathematicians both religious and secular. Even if there is a manifest difference in degrees of development (e.g. Italy having an economy roughly 2/3 the value of Germany while having 7/10 the population), of course climate, resource base and national temperament could not have anything to do with that.

Strangely enough, the doctors prescribing the antidote that you prescribe, have always tended to be the most extreme of all (at least if we measure extremity in terms of resulting body count).

The comment from Monty Python is nice as well, it adds great weight to your argument.

@Amsterdamsky on the Dark Ages

Being personally convinced that there was a body of "Greek and Roman scientists" is an odd thing; it is probably just an example of a historiography that is consistent with a somewhat narrow secularist and scientistic prejudice. There are few examples of outright persecution of natural philosophers in the classical world. Hypatia's death and the closing of the Academy in Athens (if one can consider that to be even remotely "scientific") being the biggest ones. This sort of thing plus the lack of tolerance of other religions is supposed to have brought down the Roman Empire (the event ushering in the Dark Ages)? It seems more likely that the standard litany is more correct: incessant warfare exhausting natural and human resources, barbarian invasion, more barbarian invasion, the replacement of Romans by friendly barbarian groups, affluence weakening the native Romans, etc.

Heck, believing that lead piping ALONE brought about the Dark Ages is more reasonable.


Of course, Amsterdamsky, you go ahead and believe your personal concoction of history. After you've finished smoking that crack in your pipe, perhaps you could crack open a real history book and read about why Rome fell.

I guess every blog has to have its village idiot.

Is your doctor to blame that you lost the sparring?

Suppose, you are a boxer and you have a sparring tomorrow. So you go to your family doctor and ask him how are you going to fight. And he'll tell you that boxing is unhealthy, that it is a bad idea to beat each other at the head and that you'd better make friends with the guy. So you obeyed and lost the competition. Is your doctor to blame that he did not teach you how to do boxing?

Re: In Europe

Mr. FL, spot on.

I hasten to add that they are also not waiting for their Governments to offer the cash or some other incentives to the citizens in order to procreate. 

Maybe it's time for Swedes and others to cease extrapolating their advanced 'conservative' views to the rest of the EU.

In Europe

The author seems to think the demise of European Christianity is the demise of Christianity.  Christianity is alive and well in the United States and Latin America and the Philippines -- parts of the world where people actually reproduce.