Welcome to the Capital of Europe
From the desk of The Brussels Journal on Wed, 2007-09-05 14:57
A quote from Deutsche Welle TV, December 2006:
"Undercover in Little Morocco" is the name of a book written by the young Flemish journalist Hind Fraihi. She spent two months researching undercover among radical Muslims in Brussels. Among her shocking findings was the revelation that younger Muslims in particular are increasingly prone to violence, and not just in the cities.
Submitted by Geraldo on Fri, 2007-09-07 09:17.
I think I told about this, but not in length.
This the result of changes in school curricula aiming at producing spineless people.
kids at school, as many of the adults of present time, are being poisoned with this multicultural bullshit. History is presented in such a way to provoque shame unstead proud. And other cultures are more valued than own. Teatchings at school also contributed to our birth sinking rates. When little girl at school are told that we live in a world that overcroeded, with lack of ressources and with a global warming comin how are they thinking aboiut having children?
You have already bean infected with this desease "American cowboy, Fascist,"
(Fascists are from le left, they are akin with socialism and comunis)
You catch exactly the situation we have here but didnot realize how far US have gone the same path.
Submitted by bd on Fri, 2007-09-07 02:04.
Are you American as well? By any chance Conservative/Libertarian?
And your handle, longun45, rifle, .45 cal?
Submitted by longun45 on Fri, 2007-09-07 01:52.
BD what you see in Europe is now happening here in the US and it’s called Creeping incrementalism. The government assumes far more than it can actually do. The government divides people along racial ethnic and cultural lines to segregate each faction to prevent a coalition or a majority of people from taking any action to oppose the socialist ideals. Any people that take action are racist and whatever phobic. The media in Europe is controlled by social communists just as it is here. The news is tainted with lies and half truths and enough politicians to say that everything is OK. Tolerance of other ideas is not tolerated and as long as the people are kept milling around they cannot coalesce and oppose it. Not with out a trigger point. So far they have not had ( and fort that matter neither have we) a trigger point to oppose the tide of the Creeping incrementalism. Their own governments are loosing their national identity as the SPP is trying to do here. The national governments have conspired to rob the people of everything and have given them nothing but higher taxes, higher crime, and ever so effective apologies to sooth their feelings. The welfare roles continue to bloat out of control. You can add to that the government job welfare of useless people doing useless jobs. But the people continue to get screwed, so many are leaving and going else where if they can. They have no means of self defense, and severe laws opposing it. The police are not going to enforce laws except against the weak. The rapes and car burnings will continue until a flash point is reached. There is not a good time line for that. What will happen is one of two alternatives. The country will perish ( which has been the goal ever since the third reich) or the people will have a civil war. Most likely you will see both. Who will win? The one that can be the most savage with out apologies.
Will the ordinary European Citizen let Europe die?
Submitted by bd on Fri, 2007-09-07 00:45.
Here's what I'm extremely worried about:
- the Muslim invasion of Europe? Yes.
- your collective governments failing to defend you? Yes.
But what I did not bargain for, nor even suspect, for I thought this was only an affliction of your treasonous governments is... and please understand that this is NOT in anyway to belittle or demean, but what I could not comprehend was the lack of resolve amongst the ordinary European citizen.
Maybe you may not see it this way, however from what I've seen here and in other news sources (fair to say American only news sources as the Brussels Journal is the first outside I'd visited) is your... again, I deeply apologize, but I'm just going to say this... seeming spinelessness.
If your Belgian, defend Belgium. British? Defend Britain. And on and on, and I cannot comprehend this critical lack of... sorry again... manhood.
OK, go ahead, call me stupid American cowboy, Fascist, but there is nothing wrong with having a little barbarian in you. We all should. This is your life. Why turn your life over to the State? You should control... you. You and your family should decide for you and your family.
I'd asked on a previous post: "What,if any,are Europeans as a whole doing to reverse this trend before it comes down to self-defense and civil war?" The reply I received was: "In short, and to use a good old British expression,"SOD ALL!!!". I'd asked a translation of 'Sod all' and that means nothing. And I still can't believe it.
Then later I asked: "Do you think Europeans in general today would have the will in the near future to restore Europe? Or is that dependent upon too many things? I ask because I think I'm looking for the ordinary European to take charge of there own lives and make the government do what the people want." The reply I recieved was: "I wish I had something to say."
What I'm failing to see or comprehend is this: Anybody with any will to fight. Fight is barbaric, cruel, inhumane, and deadly. And you may have to be prepared to fight to defend yourselves.
What I'm also failing to see or comprehend is this collective European will to act. I'm not speaking of governments, but of the ordinary citizen. I haven't seen anyone explictly state: "I WILL fight, and defend." That is what shocks me.
It appears your governments have paralyzed you to inaction. You must be brave enough for independent thought and action. Let me give you a smattering of dialogue on PatDollard.com (regarding a story of 75 Taliban killed in a battle):
I like to see their squishy parts sticking out. "
"Steve in NC check out the body in the foreground of the photo. Still smokin’"
"The new tolls take the number of rebels killed in just over a week to more than 300, according to an AFP count based on US military reports
Keep that body count rollin! "
"Yeah, bitch - try f#cking the virgins when your entrails are hanging out! Good luck, f#cker.
"DEATH TO THE TALIBAN!"
The above is what I mean. Crude? Yes. Barbaric? Sure. Ugly? Nothing worse.
The point is we not cowed by our socialist's in saying it. Defend your Free Speech!
But you cannot defeat an enemy that believe's in a mandate to convert you or die other than killing them. And you cannot defeat the enemy or save yourselves and Europe with multiculturalism and socialism.
I'm looking for independence of thought and action.
Does anybody on the continent have it?
Thank you for taking the
Submitted by bd on Fri, 2007-09-07 00:04.
Thank you for taking the time Geraldo.
I'm just trying to figure out the lack of, I'd guess you might call 'European resolve', but resolve from the regular, ordinary citizens. We know your collective governments will not defend you or your families.
But what do you think you'll have to do when and if the time comes to defend your wife, children, brothers, etc....?
It seems that any action taken is evil. Europeans seem paralyzed.
Tell me honestly, do you feel paralyzed? If something were to happen, anything, a terrorist attack, bombing, what-ever it may be and your governmen and it's protective authority (police, military) were to cease to exist, it is only people on lawlessness, what will or can or think you can do?
I wish I had something to
Submitted by Geraldo on Thu, 2007-09-06 23:34.
I wish I had something to say.
OK, tough to say. Do you
Submitted by bd on Thu, 2007-09-06 22:46.
OK, tough to say. Do you think Europeans in general today would have the will in the near future to restore Europe? Or is that dependent upon too many things? I ask because I think I'm looking for the ordinary European to take charge of there own lives and make the government do what the people want.
It is hard to say. The way
Submitted by Geraldo on Thu, 2007-09-06 22:37.
It is hard to say. The way leftist played the tune of nazist/fascist/racist has been efective and have prevented much people to show their real feelings.
EU isnot a true democracy anymore and you can be jailed or ousted of your job for your opinions (you can go to gatesofvienna and see what happened to Udo Ulfkotte)
Take a look to what happens in Switzerland (goto www.gatesofvienna.blogspot.com)
They have less muslim imigrants but are doing better than other european countries because it is a true democracy (they are not UE members)
Submitted by bd on Thu, 2007-09-06 20:59.
Do you think, generally speaking, that more Europeans than less feel that Europe is in danger? I'm speaking of ordinary citizens, not the leaders.
Submitted by Geraldo on Thu, 2007-09-06 20:48.
The enemies of european people can be reduced to only one: the anti-ocidental totalitarian left that is well defined by Politically correct.
That left had abducted governement, média and other instituitions (the most grevious one is school).
It was governements, with cumplicity of the média, that brought in muslims. They need them to break the spine of european people and realize their marxist foolies.
We cannot get ride of muslims until we dont ride of these bloody leftists.
But once we do that getting ride of them will be easy: close borders, cut welfare fares, law inforcements and easier deportations, cut all these amenities given to muslims (mosques, halal food in schools, etc,), bribe them to go away are just exemples of mesures to be taken.
Truth Serum, thank God! As
Submitted by bd on Thu, 2007-09-06 19:56.
Truth Serum, thank God! As an American then, do you see the same illness I do? Not only the muslims or there governments, but the people to! They seem helpless and are forced to depend on there paralyzed governments! It is a deadly cycle!
I understand the that I'll
Submitted by bd on Thu, 2007-09-06 19:53.
I understand the that I'll have to wait until later in the day as it is late in the evening there and morning here. I just feel that there is so much finger pointing.
Do any of you or people in general there have any concrete ideas to combat your decline? If the birthing trends continue, you will be Eurabia by 2050 (approx.).
For you Frenchmen this means that the blood and sacrifice of your Revolution and 2 World Wars are for naught.
My birthplace, Italy, would die inside to see St. Peters Square turned into Mohammeds Square.
And Britain, my God! The land of Nelson, Churchill, and Thatcher, the people that stopped Napolean, the Kaiser, and 'those brave few' pilots... I couldn't possibly imagine Britannia fall.
Yes, I am well aware that I now sound bombastic, and pompous and Imperialist by the above words, but why does it seem to me that so many Europeans feel more sympathy to others than yourselves? If I may make a suggestion? At least for the local Europeans? Don't you ever, ever apologize for being British or French or Italian or German. Ever. Not to me (Americans), or third world countries, and yes, even to your former colonies. The height of your civilization (and mine) was reached thru the blood, sweat, and tears of your ancestors. So why give in, cave in to these Muslim's?
Why are giving up what your fore-fathers fought for?
It is apparent your collective governments have not and will not defend your, or your families.
I've read, and I know some or all of you must have read similar articles; are you willing to give up the West?
Forsake your families future.
Atlanticist, when you translated 'Sod off', as that is what Europe would do... nothing, that shook me. That's when I realized it is THAT very attitude that may kill you all.
Then I realized another thing: Everything I'm saying here is considered by the politically correct 'hateful', 'Fascist', 'Nazism', 'racist', and on and on. So that led me to believe, if you, the individual cannot speak or write freely about what you fear to be coming true, then in turn, you MUST depend on you government(s) to save you.
They won't save you. They let them in. You can't complain. You must depend on the government.
Oh my God. Atlanticist, you were right.
All I can say is this. Take matters into your own hands. Your a person just like your 'leaders' right? Protest, make noise, fight back, get elected.
And if the Socialist/Communists amongst you claim 'racism'? Remember this: Be brave and stand up for yourself, your family, your traditions and your honor.
Never feel ashamed of where you come from and always defend it.
Honor is not a bad word.
Saying your Christian is not a bad word.
Saying your white is not racist. Saying your black is not racist. You are what you are.
Guys, please stand up for yourselves? Men, don't be afraid to be men. I think your governments have 'nannied' yourselves to helplessness.
Who will be your Charles and will 2007 be your 732?
This isn't Imperialistic... this is pragmatic.
You just might save yourselves.
@bd Thar she blows!
Submitted by truth serum on Thu, 2007-09-06 19:25.
I am certainly not an expert on European or British affairs but I do read widely their publications and as far as I can tell...they are doing nothing that will seriously change the radical Islamic problem...yet.
I am an American as well and as you mentioned the problem with Muslims in Europe are very similiar to the problems we face with Mexico and Mexicans. Their politicians are not listening to them...our politicians are not listening to us. Their politicians are condecending...as ours are.
They are constantly being shocked by their politicians bending over to their Muslim populations granting them special Muslim rights to make them happy by 'building bridges' of understanding...while ignoring the native populations and forcing them to give up their own culture and traditions.
Right now they are still trying to come to terms with the true threat to their own civilization just as we are awakening to the true theat of our own. I would say that they are still in the discussion phase...with more and more people getting louder and louder and more and more people getting pissed off.
Too few real politicians are addressing their concerns, and the ones that are...are not 'respectable' Many have and will drift over to them because they are going to 'want something done!" The more mainstream politicans are apparently not interested in doing anything at the moment.
I have felt that a civil war is looming...there and here. We may be too embroiled with our own problems to worry about theirs....so that fox hole will likely remain empty for a while...at least with your presence.
Don't know when and where it will blow...but it will blow.
Thank you for the
Submitted by bd on Thu, 2007-09-06 19:05.
Thank you for the translation. This is the feeling that I get from my 2 days of visiting this site (albeit, mind you, ONLY 2 days worth):
1. Some people don't see Eurabia as happening.
2. Some people do see it and are frightened.
3. I've posed questions but nobody seems to answer or want to give answers to tough questions.
4. Almost everybody is complaining about this muslim activity.
These are my rough, general, observations. This is remarkably different from American political or opinion websites. I'm not trying to start an American or European competition, merely a comparison. I guess I expected to hear regular folks, locals, ordinary people to put ideas out there. Take stand, draw a line, but so far I get bits and pieces of complaints and counter-complaints.
My question is to all: What do you want your government and yourselves to do about this? What are you willing to do to fix this and provide for the future of your families?
Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Thu, 2007-09-06 18:56.
My sincere apologies bd.It means,"Nada","nix","zilch"...."NOTHING".
btw If someone tells you to "Sod off",it means "Vamoose"...."Go away",but please,don't you do that.
Atlanticist911, sorry, but
Submitted by bd on Thu, 2007-09-06 18:36.
Atlanticist911, sorry, but what does 'Sod all' mean?
bd and the 'E' word
Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Thu, 2007-09-06 18:12.
"What,if any,are Europeans as a whole doing to reverse this trend before it comes down to self-defense and civil war?"
In short,and to use a good old British expression,"SOD ALL!!!".
Please try not to use the term "Eurabia" too much,Yitzhak doesn't like it.
Well then, my basic question
Submitted by bd on Thu, 2007-09-06 17:45.
Well then, my basic question to all is this:
What, if any, are Europeans as a whole doing to reverse this trend before it comes down to self-defense and civil-war?
From my perspesctive here, and from the many articles I've read, Europe is slowly being colonized. And I and many people here would see a 'Eurabia' a major threat to world peace and freedom.
I know people disagree. But what it boils down to, for you in Europe is, how far are you all willing to let this go before you must defend yourselves?
Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Thu, 2007-09-06 17:30.
"I will keep an open mind..."
And I will hold you to that promise.I say this- part jokingly- because too many people today confuse an open mind with an empty head,and as we all know,nature abhors a vacuum and so they end up with a head full of ahistorical prejudices and (to use the technical jargon),spouting verbal diarrhoea and rectal reasoning.
Thanks again for the civilized debate.Looking forward to similar future exchanges.And so it only remains for me to say,until then,"Shukran,man!"or if you prefer,"Shalomsky".
Submitted by marcfrans on Thu, 2007-09-06 17:30.
You will soon enough find out that 'Amsterdamsky' is neither "a native European" nor "understanding of her politics". He can be more aptly described as a libertarian American (with some roots in Detroit and California), who is gradually discovering (after moving to the Netherlands and its 'liberal' drug laws) that the European reality does not exactly correspond to what he imagined earlier. Prepare for a lot of 'shallow' commentary, for American self-loathing and for anti-jewish 'conspiracy theories' from Amsterdamsky in the near future.
Amsterdamsky, I have a
Submitted by bd on Thu, 2007-09-06 16:50.
Amsterdamsky, I have a hypothetical question:
Let's pretend next year, Germany experiencing Muslim rioting, an 'Intifada' much, much worse than in Paris. Pretend it was nationwide and kept on going more than 2 weeks and had no signs of slowing, in fact of even growing larger.
If Germany declared a National Emergency and Martial Law (I however don't know if such decrees or notions exist) and deployed the Bundeswehr internally to restore order, as a native European understanding her politics more than I, what would the EU ramifications be?
This question is open to all by the way.
Re: Atlanticist - Islamization vs. just plain immigrant scum
Submitted by Amsterdamsky on Thu, 2007-09-06 16:38.
I will keep an open mind. I think the christians and jews AND muslims are trying to turn this into a holy war but I think most of the problems are just plain thuggery and third world behavior brought here. My conclusions, however are probably the same as yours. Third world immigration to europe needs to stop and be reversed while it is still possible.
Again, thanks to you all.
Submitted by bd on Thu, 2007-09-06 16:37.
Again, thanks to you all. I wish we were in the same time zone. However, two things pop out to me as I continue reading: 1. Socialism is trying to 'baby', or 'nurse' the local populations. It is 'supposed' to make you happy and conversly, keep them in power. 2. Multiculturalism, seems to have been invented for the purpose of de-nationalizing Europe, but it left the door open to Muslims.
So then, my question is this: What can be done by the local people there, what is being done, and on the opposite end, what are your politicians doing, good or bad and on both spectrums.
These questions are for everyone and anyone there reading this.
I ask because, as a veteran of the U.S. Army, I don't necessarily want to find myself in a foxhole in France previously occupied by a GI from World War II attempting to re-liberate Paris. Although, if it came to that, I don't think I'd have a problem. However, too many people here in the U.S. would revert to pre-WWII isolationism and consider European suicide/civil war/Islamic invasion your problem.
Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Thu, 2007-09-06 16:02.
"I just don't buy that they are radicalized Muslims they just want to kill us".
I understand that.And I am suggesting that the facts say otherwise.But more importantly,their parents tend to agree with this analysis,too.As for your assertion that,"the role of Islam is overstated" I can have some sympathy with that view.However,does that statement negate anything I wrote in 'Re:Don't buy it and Re:Don't buy it #2 ? I would suggest not.As for the idea that "they just want to kill us" without offering a suggestion as to WHY this would be so,this is a method of reasoning alien to me.
Submitted by Amsterdamsky on Thu, 2007-09-06 15:35.
I just don't buy that they are radicalized muslims they just want to kill us. I think the role of Islam is overstated.
Re: Don't buy it #2
Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Thu, 2007-09-06 15:05.
Added to which is the interesting fact that the appellation,"third world" immigrant is more likely to apply to the parents of those 'radicalized' Muslim youths who did not immigrate themselves but were born and raised in the European country in which they are currently domiciled.
Re: Don't buy it
Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Thu, 2007-09-06 14:23.
"Criminalization not radicalization".
Hind Fraihi isn't alone here in the use of the term 'radicalization'.The parents of these "young Muslims" also refer to it as such.A journalist might well misuse words for his or her own agenda purposes, while a parent,in all probability,would not.(Unless,of course,the parent wished to deflect criticism away from their child's and their own religion,in which case THEY would be adopting the Amsterdamsky line of defence which clearly they are not).
Don't buy it
Submitted by Amsterdamsky on Thu, 2007-09-06 13:28.
Criminalized not radicalized. I really don't buy that these animals are becoming pius muslims they just justify killing, robbing and raping their belgian hosts. To say this is an islamic invasion rather than the more accurate "third world" invasion is a distraction. I like how the reporter refers to muslim rejecting "Belgian Values". More accurately they are rejecting "Belgian Law".
Are we beeing colonized?
Submitted by Geraldo on Thu, 2007-09-06 09:17.
Few time ago I read about a tatar-russian revolocionary, Sultan-Galiev.
He told(*), about colonialism, that"....we need to substitute the dictature of occidental metropoles by the dictature of proletarian nations (colonized countries) over occident metropoles...."
It seemes that, even if he was among the first hight rankink comunists purged by Stalin, his ideas were conserved by CPSU and transmited to european left who is applying his program.
(*) I think in second Komintern Congress but i am not sure.
Islam and Europe
Submitted by bd on Wed, 2007-09-05 22:23.
Hello, I've registered today to the Journal. By birth I'm European, Italian to be more exact, however I'm American in practice (live, work, and a veteran of her Army). I tell you this because I'd like to know the consensus, if possible, of Europeans as to the Islamic immigration as it stands today. Is it as bad as I'd read? Are whole areas no longer European, but Islamic?
Submitted by EuroMax on Wed, 2007-09-05 23:38.
If you are talking about the ratio of Muslim immigrants to Dutch in the Netherlands - it is according to CNN's God's Warriors - 16 : 1. Which is about 6.25% of the population.
One of the problems is that once anyone dares say - maybe we have a few too many people, who oppose European, culture and freedoms - it is often not long before the person who speaks out is called a racist.
If Europe needs more people there is Russian, and South America. But what is the sense in blindly bringing in people, who under democracy, vote for the type of laws which erode freedoms, such as are normal in most Islamic countries.
Right now, Turkey is having a problem with pressure to Islamise that country. Full EU membership will most certainly mean that their problems will also become ours.
For example, if those who have little intention of ever fitting in are allowed to continue coming to Europe at the same rates as they have been, politicians could be looking at a voting block, which might oppose things like women's rights, or anything other than that which is considered Islamic, but is now an established part of normal individual human rights.
We have PC people - painting their rosy PC image of everything, but as this program shows, we have got Islamic people who are afraid of the changes and those who have spent time in Islamic or largely Muslim countries who are also afraid.
In Europe our instincts are telling us that something is bad or wrong about this. No one is suggesting anything like what happened in the WWII should be repeated, but we are going to have to act to curtail the situation.
It is either maintain the dreamy PC illusion with regards to Islam in Europe or be prepared to offend somewhat and act on our collective instincts to maintain our way of life and our freedoms as we know them.
To live in Europe is to be free and we have to keep it that way.
Thanks EuroMax. I
Submitted by bd on Wed, 2007-09-05 23:55.
Thanks EuroMax. I appreciate the time taken to reply. You see, I never, ever get this type of news on the T.V. Only on the Internet, and only if I dig deep enough. That's why I wanted to speak to people actually there, a sort of 'boots on the ground' type of reporting. And again, I'm hearing bad news. Would you take it as an insult that Socialist policies of Multi-culturalism (if I had to assign blame) are part of the problem? We're experiencing that here although to a much lesser extent regarding Muslims and much greater extent regarding illegal alien Mexicans. I know what you mean about immediately being called racist, although here your also lumped in with being called 'Nazi, Facsist, Fear-Monger, etc'. Our newspaper, about a week ago, 'The Arizona Republic' had published a story about how our English teacher have trouble speaking English, much less teaching English. And on and on it goes. Is there anything that can be done for you or are you and the rest of the Europeans in a state of powerlessness? I ask because I don't want to see St. Peter's square turned into 'Mohamed's Square' and the Eiffel tower turned into the world's largest minaret. An earlier post was about weapons. Are you allowed to have weapons, ie, firearms? Are you trained to use them? How many people have prior military service behind them? Will it come to that. I know I have so many questions, but the T.V. newsmedia is so pro-Socialist, no one trusts them anymore.
Europeans- you are being slapped about.
Submitted by Charles Bogle on Wed, 2007-09-05 21:41.
But will you take it on your feet or on your knees?
You just have to question
Submitted by Geraldo on Wed, 2007-09-05 21:11.
You just have to question yourself:
How is it to be tomarrow?
How is it to be next year?
How is it to be within ten years?
It is easy to see that your governement is not anymore your governement.
They bring you in the people you saw in the video. They relie on that people to remain in power (you are free to read "govern for them"). They are not defend you and we may doubt they are allowing you to defend yourselves.
Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Wed, 2007-09-05 20:44.
Who are you? Where are you? Are you any relation to Elwood P. Dowd? Do you know "Harvey"? ...
When government doesn't do
Submitted by Flanders Fields on Wed, 2007-09-05 20:00.
I never thought I would agree with Geraldo, but I presume he is not coming to us from Fox News.
When the governments don't perform their dutiful function to protect society, individuals have to undertake their own responsibilities. Those responsibilities which have been avoided for too long include not allowing governments to disregard the people.
Those who presume to wait for others to solve their problems may have a long wait. Waiting until some of the attitudes displayed in the film have power within our own communities leaves only one recourse. That recourse does not include becoming Islamic.
Amsterdamski, I think you have made an excellent point. You have described exactly what is happening. Is the air getting more clear in the Netherlands?
Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Wed, 2007-09-05 17:38.
I could respond to this but I think I'll let "Amsterdamski" do it for me.It's sure to be more interesting.
Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Wed, 2007-09-05 15:55.
"Undercover in Little Morocco" is a book written by the young Flemish journalist Hind Fraihi.
WRONG book title,it should have been more accurately named "Undercover in Little Eurabia".
Submitted by R. Hartman on Wed, 2007-09-05 17:09.
I think "Undercover in Little Morocco" is a very apt title, as it indicates a Moroccan colony in another society. However, your title is equally apt, provide you drop the "Little": "Undercover in Eurabia"
Let's face it: Islam imiigrants are no immigrants at all; immigrants adapt, as they consciously immigrate into an area because of its values, that will give them better chances of a more prosperous living. Colonists, on the other hand, are taking over their guest country, subjecting it to their own habits, in lieu of expanding their home country.
you had better to start
Submitted by Geraldo on Wed, 2007-09-05 15:42.
you had better to start stockpilling weapons.
Civilian war is around the corner.