Utrecht Riots: Neighbourhood Closed Off
From the desk of Paul Belien on Thu, 2007-03-15 08:10
The Dutch police deny that the police officer who killed Rinie Mulder is of Moroccan or Turkish descent. Esther, a Dutch blogger, refers to a post on a Moroccan website saying the police officer is Turkish, not Moroccan. The post has, however, been removed. Yesterday, we reported, relying on sources in Ondiep, that the officer was a Moroccan woman.
It remains unclear what happened in the Utrecht neighbourhood Ondiep on Sunday evening when a police officer shot 54-year old Mulder. According to some press reports, which also rely on rumours, Mulder was drunk when he and a friend became involved in a quarrel with immigrant youths. When the police intervened they shot Mulder. The man had been complaining about harassment by immigrant youths for months. Neighbours accuse the police of turning a blind eye to the youths’ behaviour.
Following Mulder’s death indigenous Dutch have started rioting. According to the authorities many rioters came from outside the neighbourhood.
The police have placed fences and cameras around the neighbourhood, and have closed it off to non-residents. The closure of the neighborhood will be reviewed day by day. The fines for those entering are going up. On Tuesday the fine amounted to 200 euros, on Wednesday to 300 euros and on Thursday to 400 euros.
Ondiep has now literally become a no-go area.
In Response to "Roughdoggo"
Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Sun, 2007-03-18 11:05.
Perhaps if I refrain from insulting your username, you will do likewise with attempting to associate mine with historical figures. You would do well to take note that there is a distinction between the ranks of captain and major, as well as the fact that I do not use the English spelling of the former rank, something MarcFrans was quick to seize upon in previous postings.
Roughdoggo: "There's something weird about K. André's take on the Tibetan wars. Evidently, in his odd view, CIA-backed/assisted guerrilla movements are non-representative of the ethnic/cultural groups supported, since the help comes from outside."
What do you mean by "non-representative"? Firstly, the PLA invasion encountered negligible resistance. Secondly, the resistance movement that did emerge cannot be disentangled from the support it received from the CIA, given that Tibetan leaders requested assistance from the United States, and represented a small percentile of the Tibetan population.
Roughdoggo: "I wonder what he thinks about the 10-year Baltic War of roughly 1950-1960, which, with CIA backing pinned down whole Soviet divisions and led to the deaths of approximately 50 000 Russian troops. Non-representative of the Letts, Liths, and Estonians?"
Firstly, although it became associated with resistance to Soviet annexation before and after the Second World War, the Forest Brothers originated as a resistance movement against Imperial Russian occupation. Secondly, anti-communist/Soviet/Russian partisans were active throughout Warsaw Pact states and the constituent countries of the USSR (excepting Russia of course). Thirdly, the 50,000 figure includes all fatalities during struggle, which lasted until the early 1980s; given that: (a) there were up to 170,000 Forest Brothers active throughout the Baltics, (b) that the Red Army was superior in every way, and (c) that the latter could inflict collective punishment on Baltic civilians, many of these fatalities could actually be Forest Brothers themselves.
Roughdoggo: "If anyone was atypical of the Tibetans, it was their "Red Guard" quislings named by K. André. These traitors had little popular support. Their coming only briefly overlapped with the Tibetan Wars, which ended with the Tibetan people and their gallant warriors crushed by Maoist armies."
Firstly, there were Tibetan Red Guards, albeit a minority of Tibetans. Secondly, many young Tibetans participated ardently in the Cultural Revolution, destroying their own cultural treaures and institutions in the process, namely monasteries. Thirdly, the Tibetans did not engage in guerrilla warfare; their groupings and frontal assaults were suicidal tactics given the superiority of the PLA and its aerial arm.
Roughdoggo: "K. André's view on European civil race/ethnic war is rather narrow, and stinks of revolutionary romanticism. If he can't come up with better suggestions, I feel sorry for him."
Ethnic cleansing and forced population movements (e.g. resettlement, repatriation, etc.) are not a solution per se. Rather they are a prediction. If you have a better "prediction" or even a "solution" then feel free to share it; otherwise your criticism is not constructive.
Roughdoggo: "For instance, it would be easy for those disagreeing with you to call you "Crapitein André", but I choose not to."
Nevertheless, you just did.
Reason enough to shoot him??
Submitted by buccaneer on Sun, 2007-03-18 10:16.
"Here, however, things become more nuanced. Mulder is beginning to sound more and more like the obnoxious neighbourhood drunk."
Reason enough to shoot him (especially because drinking is so unislamic, so unmulticultural)? HE obviously got shot yet the muslims who were harassing that poor woman seemingly weren't even apprehended...(whoever has lived in a muslim neighbourhood probably won't be surprised at all about such harassments) like so many of their coreligionists - yet despite that obvious lack of law enforcement with regards to them, muslims still manage to be overrepresented with regards to their community's size in Europe's prisons. (I'd be glad to be proven wrong). Does that really have nothing to do with their religion?
A religion whose founder's biography might easily be taken for that of a mobster by a reader who'd ignore that Mohammed was actually the founder of a religion. Looting, robbing, murdering, demanding the yizha. Gives you a real hard time trying to find similarities between Mohammed and Buddha or Jesus.
(We know, all religions are equal - have to be equal)
By the way Mohammed isn't just considered a historic figure by muslims - he is considered the perfect man by muslims all over the world, up to the very day. His life is a guidance to many muslims...which should make the West feel very very comfortable.
I simply wonder what would have happened the other way round with a muslim shot? I guess the prime minister himself would have rushed onto the scene to make a kowtow to the muslim community..
I sincerely hope the Dutch will wake up at the polls and vote for Geert de Wilders who has taken a clear stance with regards to islam.
I any way the Dutch will get the society they vote for - still. In some years they might not even be able to do that, being outnumbered by muslims. That probably will also be the only time, islam truely will embrace democracy - as a means to push through sharia by majority vote. And the leftist will by then reap in the gratitude of islam...(maybe some temporary discount on the yizha as a gratification for proven loyalty to the cause of islam?)
Submitted by marcfrans on Sat, 2007-03-17 17:38.
Thank you for useful information.
Next time I will pass the Tappanzee bridge - not likely in the near future - I will think of Major John Andre and his deeds in the service of a 'wrong' cause (monarchy and imperialism). Thank God, we are not going to "hang" our 'Kapitein Andre' physically, only verbally. After all, he is an 'ally' in our struggle with the contemporary dangerous enemies of (individual) freedom in the world, which are: radical islam, chinese totalitarianism, populist 'leftists' and 'rightists' in the third world, and intolerant and sentimentalist naive-leftism in the west. However, the captain's inability to make a proper distinction between culture and race/ethnicity (and his manifest racism and antiamericanism) could make him an embarrassment for genuine freedomlovers in the world.
Submitted by marcfrans on Sat, 2007-03-17 04:36.
1) Could you please clarify your reference to Tarrytown?
2) I have my own concerns about some of Kapitein Andre's views about the world, but I think he has a point about "Tibetans non-violent Buddhist approach to occupation". Although, I hasten to say, his use of the term "occupation" is sometimes rather cavalier. In Tibet, of course, we have a genuine "occupation" and essentially chinesification going on. But, is it really a problem of "Buddhism" here? The Vietnamese , for instance, have also faced similar pressures from China for many centuries, and they are 'Buddhist' too (but of a different kind) and yet have not been swallowed up.
3) Are you sure about CIA help for the Tibetans long ago, and who was the one to pull ("yanking away") the plug? Where was 'international law' and the UN? Did they manage at least a meaningless "resolution", nonbinding of course (like most of the 'Dems' in the US Congress today)? Or where they hiding again under their desks (i.e. behind mindless talk of cheap words)? And who is going to lift a finger to keep 50 million Taiwanese free, when the Chinese economy eventually will tank and the CCparty will need a 'lightning conductor'? De Villepin, Schroeder, Zap.....tero?
Tarrying in Tarrytown
Submitted by roughdoggo on Sat, 2007-03-17 14:42.
Thanks for your questions, Marc F.
The line about Tarrytown refers to the place where British spy Major John André was captured during the American Revolutionary War. The actual place of his hanging was at Tappan, New York. George Washington was on the board that approved André's execution as a spy. What was good enough for George, is good enough for me.
Regarding the Tibetan revolt and its ten-year guerrilla war aftermath, the books to look for are Michael Peissel's "The Secret War in Tibet" (aka in Britain as "The Cavaliers of Kham") and the several books by George Patterson, including his "Tibet in Revolt" that deal with this theme.
There's something weird about K. André's take on the Tibetan wars. Evidently, in his odd view, CIA-backed/assisted guerrilla movements are non-representative of the ethnic/cultural groups supported, since the help comes from outside. I wonder what he thinks about the 10-year Baltic War of roughly 1950-1960, which, with CIA backing pinned down whole Soviet divisions and led to the deaths of approximately 50 000 Russian troops. Non-representative of the Letts, Liths, and Estonians?
If anyone was atypical of the Tibetans, it was their "Red Guard" quislings named by K. André. These traitors had little popular support. Their coming only briefly overlapped with the Tibetan Wars, which ended with the Tibetan people and their gallant warriors crushed by Maoist armies.
K. André's view on European civil race/ethnic war is rather narrow, and stinks of revolutionary romanticism. If he can't come up with better suggestions, I feel sorry for him.
And, addressing K. André himself - when someone like you stoops to invective and name-calling, I take as a sign that that person has run out of intellectual steam. For instance, it would be easy for those disagreeing with you to call you "Crapitein André", but I choose not to.
In Reply to 'Rough Dog-do'
Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Sat, 2007-03-17 04:31.
Roughdoggo: "If I am reading K. André correctly, he has an unusual take on mass murder, sanitizing atrocities in the former Yugoslavia under the euphemism "ethnic cleansing". Perhaps it's time for him to go into the corner and read Orwell - particularly that author's "Politics and the English Language". It worries me that André seems to be almost gloating over the possibility that Europe will descend into the chaos that consumed the Balkans."
Firstly, I have not "sanitized" the "war crimes" committed by various military and paramilitary forces during the Balkan conflicts. Secondly, "ethnic cleansing" is the official term used by the United Nations, NATO and the International Court of Justice. Thirdly, there is no gloating involved: if I relished the thought of killing Muslims and other non-Whites, I would be supporting the "War on Terror." If Western governments had managed immigration and allowed for public dialogue properly, there would be no threat of Balkanisation.
Roughdoggo: "As far as peaceful Tibetans go, I'd like to know where André got his idea about "their non-violent Buddhist approach to occupation". In fact, the Tibetans violently revolted against Chinese rule, and carried on a long-term guerilla war against the Chinese afterwards, until support was yanked out from under them by the CIA. The truth is that Tibetans did not submit to Chinese rule, so much as they were crushed by Chinese military power."
Firstly, the CIA was largely responsible for violent resistance in the first place. Secondly, Tibetan "red guards" were involved alongside the People's Liberation Army. Thirdly, the Tibetan government-in-exile has decidedly pursued a non-violent approach to the injustices faced in Tibet.
Roughdoggo: "Many readers of this forum seem to be indulging in wishful thinking, when they take a mindless neighbourhood riot for a revolt against immigration. It seems to be an open question as to how many local residents were actually engaged in the Ondiep troubles. The spotty news coverage - for what it's worth - suggests that most of the vandals were opportunist outside agitators and thugs, looking for a street brawl for excitment. This sort of pointless rampage is going to solve Europe's immigration problems? Come off it, now!"
So long as popular and academic discourse in favor of ethnic homogeneity and the preservation of indigenous European nations is prohibited officially and unofficially, civil disobedience and violent revolution are the only means to achieve effective leadership with regards to destructive multicultural, politically correct and immigration policies and programmes.
In Reply to McMad & roughdoggo
Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Fri, 2007-03-16 07:04.
Certainly it is too early at this point to draw conclusions with regards to the shooting and subsequent rioting, and we must wait for all the evidence to be illuminated before beginning analysis of these incidents. However, irrespective of whether or not the shooting was justified, the personal character of the victim and the ethnic origins of the police officer, it is clear that the Dutch in that neighborhood were frustrated with the direction their society was taking. Although one would hope that the Dutch will vent their anger in "constructive" or "justified" ways over legitimate grievances, because Den Haag ignores and suppresses indigenous Dutch populism, the Dutch people will become increasingly unreasonable. Moreover, that national governments from Berlin to Washington are allowing the demographic crisis to continue unabated and are not receptive to any calls for moderate change, tensions will escalate until liberal and social democracy will be ineffective at resolving them and Westerners will have to choose between revolutionary violence and its corrolary of ethnic cleansing, and losing their demographic majorities and thereby their self-determination to peoples that differ from them culturally, ethnically, racially and often religiously. During the Balkan conflicts, the Serbs, Croats and to a lesser extent Bosnians faced vehement criticism from around the world for their use of ethnic cleansing, while Tibetans were hailed because of their non-violent Buddhist approach to occupation by the Han Chinese. However, excepting the Albanian presence in Kosovo (since the Second World War) and infiltration into Macedonia, the Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Bosnians and now Montenegrins all are self-determining nation-states based upon ethno-national popular sovereignty. The Tibetans, meanwhile, face extinction and oppression due to Han Chinese colonization, second-class citizenship and cultural and often physical destruction. While the Tibetans may have the "moral highground" by liberal definitions, Social Darwinists might argue that the game is survival, and if the latter are correct the Tibetan people will die out but receive a sympathetic farewell by states powerless to intervene.
To Thee McMad
Submitted by roughdoggo on Thu, 2007-03-15 23:16.
Your points are well taken. Each one of them (that Ondiep has been harassed by Muslim immigrants, that similar conditions obtain in other Dutch neighbourhoods, that we may never know the facts - a post-structuralist idea, this last! - and that established media will, under inspiration of government, exercise damage control) I take as being valid, since I assume that you are a truth-teller, and because much of what you say is common knowledge or appeals to common sense.
That Brussels Journal tries to highlight the situation that otherwise might be subjected to official coverups is also a good thing, as I see it.
My main complaint regarding the two editorial entries about this affair is that the Journal's rush to report it (with an initial inaccuracy that led to a quasi-retraction) damages the credibility of the conservative anti-Third World immigration cause. Pro-migration parties are watching, and use every slip-up to discredit their opponents.
It's a question of choosing your battles carefully. Publicising the first rumours from the street in the Mulder case is sensationalistic journalism. As you yourself imply, there is enough going on in the areas you name to justify some real investigative reportage on conditions there, with no need to seize upon episodes which, under closer scrutiny, can damage the credibility of what I assume is our common concern.
Point being made: it does matter that Mulder may have been a violent drunk. When putative saints are shown to have clay feet, the church suffers.
Utrecht was, by the way, when I saw it last, a great place. I remember well its waterways, the Viking runes outside the cathedral (not to mention the view from the bell tower), and seeing "Casablanca" there for the first time in a glorious refurbished version.
Submitted by peter vanderheyden on Fri, 2007-03-16 10:13.
"Pro-migration parties are watching, and use every slip-up to discredit their opponents."
We don’t use anything. We don’t have to. You’re doing all the discrediting on your own. Sit back and watch is all we have to do.
have a nice day
Didn't they hang you at Tarrytown?
Submitted by roughdoggo on Sat, 2007-03-17 03:43.
If I am reading K. André correctly, he has an unusual take on mass murder, sanitizing atrocities in the former Yugoslavia under the euphemism "ethnic cleansing". Perhaps it's time for him to go into the corner and read Orwell - particularly that author's "Politics and the English Language". It worries me that André seems to be almost gloating over the possibility that Europe will descend into the chaos that consumed the Balkans.
As far as peaceful Tibetans go, I'd like to know where André got his idea about "their non-violent Buddhist approach to occupation". In fact, the Tibetans violently revolted against Chinese rule, and carried on a long-term guerilla war against the Chinese afterwards, until support was yanked out from under them by the CIA. The truth is that Tibetans did not submit to Chinese rule, so much as they were crushed by Chinese military power.
Many readers of this forum seem to be indulging in wishful thinking, when they take a mindless neighbourhood riot for a revolt against immigration. It seems to be an open question as to how many local residents were actually engaged in the Ondiep troubles. The spotty news coverage - for what it's worth - suggests that most of the vandals were opportunist outside agitators and thugs, looking for a street brawl for excitment. This sort of pointless rampage is going to solve Europe's immigration problems? Come off it, now!
Always speak your mind
Submitted by truth serum on Thu, 2007-03-15 18:29.
Always speak your mind. Intimidation is always used to try and shut people up.
Submitted by perfektm on Thu, 2007-03-15 20:29.
Thanks for your suggestion Truth Serum...
I already apologized even before using that language....
but as you said Intimidation... then check this...
this is what you get... if you remain silent..
I am convinced... that if Radical Muslims get there way... then they will make one more holocaust... one more massacre.... and i know Iqbal is one of those indoctrated Jihadi ...
where you want to remain silent... perhaps because your Family had not suffered in past...
But ask those... whose family had suffered in Past... and how they feel about this threat..
Respect is a 2 way policy.... Iqbal broke that.. and so do i...
Submitted by McMad on Thu, 2007-03-15 12:55.
It doesnt matter if Mulders was a drunk, he might have been an unpleasant person, that doesnt change anything about the fact that Ondiep has been terrorized by islamic youth gangs for a long time, just as other dutch neighbourhoods are (Bos en Lommel, Oude Noorden etc).
"The Facts" we might never know. Dutch officials and media will do their utmost best to "minimize the damage". I think its a good thing that Brussels Journal tries to shed some light into the situation in Utrecht as much as possible.
Ghetoo for Dutch ?
Submitted by perfektm on Thu, 2007-03-15 13:41.
situations are turning like Ghetoo....
Now Dutch peoples are placed in Virtual Jails inside a small area....
The Natives of a country... are now forced to stay in a small area....
so MOHAMMEDIANS (Muslims and Islam is a word banned in Media) Minorities doing criminal activities can move around freely and commit crime....
Are Europeans the next Jews ? will europe going to see the same fate what Jews had faced in Past ?
At least 1200 years of historical studies do say so..... Afgan Buddhist, Persians, Kashmiri hindus... all have faceed it....
if Europeans think passifism is the answer to radicals.... then they forgot that they are not peoples moving on priniciples of Jesus.... for them killing infidels means earning relvation ... which provides them 72 virgin pussy.. and 26 young boys (asses not confirmed.... but islam allows homosexuallity)
Submitted by Sam Iqbal on Thu, 2007-03-15 14:03.
Go back to your shop Apu. It's tragic that through your overt racism you cannot see the irony of your posts.
lick my ***......
Submitted by perfektm on Thu, 2007-03-15 14:25.
WARNING : WORDS CAN GO OFFENSIVE.... MY APPOLOGIES (NOT FOR IQBAL)
racism....? i dont consider a clan of murders as race..... isn't mohammed and groups were a clan of murderes ?
well thanks for your comment.... i mean "perfectrectum"....
what i can say is "lick my rectum"...
and one more thing.... Apu is a character of Simpsons... and Hindus do also enjoy him as do christians.... we also had seen Ganesha running in a series.... and so do Christians had seen Jesus cartoons..... Because we know that the main thing what matters is humanity... religion comes somewhere in lower priorities..... but why i am explaining this too you ? Go and Explore Brussels journal, you will find Mohammed cartoon here too....
and one more thing..... have you seen any hindu or christian Burning Embassies.... But we do had seen Muslim doing this..... This is what make us different... you are still cave man... go and ride you camel....
Submitted by Sam Iqbal on Thu, 2007-03-15 14:42.
The irony of course, is that the greatest friends and servants of Osama Bin Laden in the West are the likes of Perfekt nutcase who - just like OBL are - itching for the fight.
Anyways. You are making a fool of yourself and people are laughing. I would suggest you stop acting like an extremist bufoon. END OF CONVERSATION.
Taqiyya Taqiyya Taqiyya.. sam till where u will play such tricks
Submitted by perfektm on Thu, 2007-03-15 15:04.
AS WE KNOW... ISLAM IS IN WAR IN NON-MUSLIMS...
AND WAR MEANS TO USE PROPOGANDA,SO ISLAM IS USING THAT...
BY SAYING THAT PEOPLE WILL LAUGH... YOU WANT TO HOLD THE VOICES...
BY SAYING WHAT OTHERS WILL SAY.... YOU ARE STOPING US TO SHARE THE PAIN OF VICTIMS...
check here Jihad propoganda TV
SO I WILL SAY....
I DARE TO SPEAK.. WHAT I SEE....
I GO FURTHER TO SHARE PAIN OF VICTIMS OF ISLAM....
AND I AM DETERMINED TO FACE ISLAMOFACIST... BECAUSE I WILL NOT LET THE HISTORY REPEAT...
PEOPLE LAUGHING ? THEN LET THEM LAUGH, DON'T TELL ME....BECAUSE I KNOW THEY WILL JOIN ME TODAY OR TOMORROW... ITS NON OF YOUR BIZZ TO TELL ME... THAT THEY ARE LAUGHING
MANY OF US ARE HERE TO DISCUSS HOW TO TACKLE ISLAMOFACIST... MANY OF OTHER BLOGS ARE ALSO DISCUSSING IT..... BY SAYING PEOPLE ARE LAUGHING... YOU ARE JUST MISGUDING AND DEPROMOTING OTHERS....
BUT AS I SAID, NEITHER TAQIYYA NOR SUCH TRICKS WILL WORK.....
SOCIETY HAD ALLREADY STARTED POLARIZING.... WE HAVE NO MORE FAITH IN MUSLIMS....
YOU CAN SAY YOURSELF SAM... OR U CAN SAY SAMIR... YOU CAN SAY THAT PEOPLE WILL LAUGH. BUT TRUTH WILL COME OUT....WE ALL KNOW U R A MOONBAT..... HAVE FUN FURTHER WITH SPREADING TAQIYYA...
\END OF CONVERSATION...
Stop shouting Perfektm!
Submitted by Sam Iqbal on Thu, 2007-03-15 15:14.
Calm down. Have a drink of water and i shall speak with you tommorrow. Good day.
Submitted by perfektm on Thu, 2007-03-15 15:20.
Have a Good day to you too.....
At last definitely i would love to debate.... but would also love to promote a nice language...
As if you gonna insult me... then you will also get the same respect back..
Odder and odder
Submitted by roughdoggo on Thu, 2007-03-15 12:08.
The previous entry says knight errant "Mulder intervened when Muslim youths harassed a pregnant native Dutch woman". Fair enough.
Here, however, things become more nuanced. Mulder is beginning to sound more and more like the obnoxious neighbourhood drunk.
Police officers in Western Europe are not trigger-happy, at least not compared to parts of the States. There is good reason to think that when they shot Mulder, they had grounds for doing that. Of course, I could be wrong, but this sounds suspiciously like a yob of the type Theodore Dalrymple so eloquently describes, getting his just desserts. That his neighbourhood erupted into a riot zone shortly after, seems about par for the course.
Perhaps the Journal should be a bit more discreet about rolling out the rumours, until the facts are in?