The Muslims Have Won

A quote from Alasdair Palmer in The Sunday Telegraph, 19 February 2006

“They think they have won the debate,” [Patrick Sookhdeo] says with a sigh. “They believe that the British Government has capitulated to them, because it feared the consequences if it did not. The cartoons, you see, have not been published in this country, and the Government has been very critical of those countries in which they were published. To many of the Islamic clerics, that’s a clear victory. It’s confirmation of what they believe to be a familiar pattern: if spokesmen for British Muslims threaten what they call ‘adverse consequences’ – violence to the rest of us – then the British Government will cave in. I think it is a very dangerous precedent.”

Dr Sookhdeo adds that he believes that “in a decade, you will see parts of English cities which are controlled by Muslim clerics and which follow, not the common law, but aspects of Muslim sharia law.”

Free Speech?

The Muslims do seem to be winning at using terror to control free speech and almost all Western media. If you have not seen the toons yet, check them out at I also put together a nice documentary.

Hope this can help you :-)

Nothing will happend if any Newspaper posted cartoons picturing the pope, Moses, Jesus or Budda. It's pretty normal to do things like that in the civilized world. We even make funny movies about Jesus , the Life of Brian is a good example :-) We laugh at ourself including our religious belive. A few persons may be a bit offended but compared to the Muslims, we don't kill, dismember burn or whine like pigs when somebody makes a picture/movie about Jesus/Moses/The Pope. We behave civilized :-)

In respond to the voilent outrage in the uncivilized islamofacist world because of a few "profet" cartoons some Jews with a good sense of humor have made a "Israeli Anti-Semitic Cartoon" contest. You can view it on:

I expect these cartoons to cause any flag/embasy/synagoe burnings all over the world, because the Jews are civilized humans. They are like us :-)

You are perfectly right: The Israelis are the heros and the palistinans/arabs are the terrorists.

Budist and Hindi's are also peace loving humans. I don't think they are the kind of humans that can be turned into suicide terrorists.

non-serious attitudes

I thought that there will be some serious minded people on this forum who, if not completely, will at least try to understand the view point of Pakistani Christians....I wonder there's not a single being who has any feelings regarding this.
We suffer due to your attitudes...believe it or not!!!!!!!

I'll never say that whatever Muslim extremists are doing is just and right. I just want to bring your attention towards atrocities against Christians present in the Muslim World. I also believe that Religion is a personal matter for everyone, but how can we bear with the insulting of Jesus's statues and urinating publically on The Cross???? We witness this everyday yet cannot speak a word.

It's easy to write, while sitting in the comfort of a free environment. I would love to have you see and witness yourself. Using abusive language and hatred sppeches are not the solution of any problem.

Reply to Conceptual

I cannot speak for others on this site, but I certainly react to your plight with sympathy. There is practically nothing fair about this fight. Your countrymen are encouraged to see this as a conflict between Christianity and Islam. From the European perspective it has nothing to do with Christianity at all, and the infrequent and vacillating statements of our so-called Christian leaders have almost all been of an accommodating tone. Whether Christians or Jews (together a small minority) or secular libertarians (the large majority) the people writing on this site view the "cartoon issue" in terms of the most basic political liberties. It is quite true, as you say, that it is easy to write from a place where those liberties exist. I for one want it to remain easy. My devout hope is that in time it will become easy for the people of Pakistan as well. But they will not be fostered in either of our countries by succumbing to terror, either military or cultural. We are outraged that Muslims demand for themselves in Europe rights that Muslims in a Muslim nation will not accord to you. But it is no solution to the problem to deny those rights to them, nor to surrender our own. Europe may be the center of a defunct "Christendom" but it is on the far periphery of actual Christianity. It is you Christians of Pakistan, and Indonesia, and China, and Nigeria, and so many other places who are living out authentic Christianity as it was known in the age before the conversion of the Emperor Constantine brought together those two realms, God's and Caesar's, that Christ himself held to be separate. Please do not think that any western nation is in any direct sense guided by Christian principles, except to the considerable extent that those principles were instrumental in creating the concept of political freedom. The concept of the freedom of the will that is central to all Christian moral theology finds its echo in the secular doctrine of political liberty. Not a few scholars have pointed out the relationship between the totalitarian aspects of Muslim theological tradition and the totalitarian aspects of Muslim political polities. Negotiation of this chasm will not be easy. Many of us think it will not be possible. I can tell you that I sincerely regret the many posts I have seen, some of them on this site, that seem motivated by religious hatred and an anti-Muslim bigotry. We have several examples of actions morally equivalent to urinating on a cross. I regret that you yourself must face such pain and indignity. But a person on your intelligence and moral profile must surely know without my telling you that the fanatic who fouls your sacred symbol demeans neither you nor the Cross. He does grossly demean himself. As for you personally, Conceptual, I regard you with awe. I do not delude myself that in parallel circumstances I would rise to your level of heroism.

It is full of errors.

Angola does not have 25% Muslims more like 0%
Thailand does not have 14% more like 5%
Trinidad and Tobago does not have 12% more like 6%
The US does not have 3% but more like 1%
Macedonia does not have 29% but more like 17%

To emeda concerning statistics

Sir. The table is not correct.

"The following table from the above source is updated from The CIA World's Facts Book estimate of 2004."

The CIA World's Facts Book states 50% Muslim, 10% indigineous and 40% Christian for Nigeria. That is not 75% Muslim!

No other statistic I have found states 75% Muslim for Nigeria.

The common consensus is around 1.3 billion Muslims in the world. The biggest religion is Christianity with around 2.1 billion.

EMEA and Pedofile.

If your religion support pedoles conduct - it's sick.

If other religions support a sick behaviors, and don't protect children against sexual abuse, it's not an excuse for such an act.

I don't care if the Bible, Quran or whatever religeous book write about old men marrying very young girls. Use writings from such medias, and say it's ok - is by any standards wrong.

That's why, we in democratic countries have a split between religion and the state, and have a legal system to take care of this issue

A recent poll states 40% of Muslims in the UK want Sharia law

A recent poll states 40% of Muslims in the UK want Sharia law. That is scary. All Moderates I am sure.

I wonder if the following is part of Sharia:

Watch movie about women's and children's rights in Muslim Gulf states on The movie is on the front page and starts automatically.

An Arab lady explaining it good to Muslim men. Unbelievable, Can anybody verify if pedophilia is accepted and common as the lady indicates? Is it really permitted by Sharia and/or tradition?

This is shocking.


What I miss in this whole debate is answers to the following:

Does islamic law apply to non-muslims?
Does any religious law override civil law?

This is a tuff one. If you answer yes to the first question then you have also answered yes to the second question. Then we really have a crisis. Our laws does not apply if there is a "religious" law overriding it.

Does that mean that "honor" killings, though very few of then are known, overrides our laws about killing other people?

What about polygami. Does that mean that our laws are wrong by making it a criminal act?

What will the next be? That we are not allowed to have a drink because it is prohibited in islam? Or that having a affair with a girl will cause us to be executed?

My answers to my own questions are: No, non-muslims are not bound by islamic law. If you are in a country where islamic law is part of the civil law, you have to accept it. But no religious law, that, maybe, was created thousands years ago overrides the laws created in modern societies.

So the cartoons were allowed. If they were intended to insult muslims should be tried in a court of law, that was in fact done in denmark, to establish if is was an intentional insult or not. The burden of proof lies with the plainstif.

Oh Kung Fu Master You so Bad You Good!

Ohhhhhhh! They would hurt themselves just trying to "get" to Pamela Sue Anderson..easiest way top kill a few hundred, as they trample each other to touch her toes.. my less anything else!

Odin be Praised! Baldur Save Us!

Whoooohooo! To Kung Fu Master!

Hehehehehe! I think you right.. but remember send them home with some DANISH ham on their lips as well! hehehehe! That way they can let it all hang out!

Did I say that * bites my lips demurely*

Odin be Praised! Baldur Save us!

peace, you're ignorant of the west



You talk of things you know nothing of. First of all, for protestants the pope is of no importance. We simply do not recognize his "divinity", he's just another person with an idea about what christianity is.

Less than a year ago, priests and bishops in Denmark actually debated wether there's room in the bible for gay marriage, and many priests actually believe there is.

Furthermore, the vast majority of christians in the west, do not believe the church or the clergy(priests, bishops, cardinals and the pope) are the "keepers" of the true faith. The vast majority believe religion is personal, and that each individual must figure out for themselves what the bible says, what christianity means to them. Priests and bishops etc. can function as "guides" at best, but they do NOT know the truth.

In Denmark, that line of thinking has been prevalent for atleast 150 years...


As you can see, we are very different from you muslim totalitarians, where only the imams, mullahs or whatever, are the only ones who know the truth, and every muslim must believe the clergys understanding of the faith or they are not "true" muslims. Bet that's why the structure of the qur'an is so messed up. It keeps your average muslim from figuring out what it really says.

Welcome to Londonistan...

Citizens of Syria and Saudi Arabia, come here and enjoy ... the islamic pearl of Europe. Sharia is already a reality so you'll feel right at home. I'm sure this is what those Spitfire-pilots were all fighting for, for you to fuck it up 50 years later, good job mates!

Did they die for nothing ?

It seems that many persons forget that almost a whole generation of young Brits lost their life in the battle for Democracy and free speech during second world war. Did they die, just to let a new generation throw everything away they fought for ? Freedom and free speech is not to be taken for somthing granted. All over Europa people has payed for it with their blood and lives. If outcome would be the Sharia law, why didn't they just surrender to the Nazi's. I think it's fair to compare the evil Nazi laws with the Sharia laws.

to kungfumaster

and u weak person donot have any thing to say but exploding with your vulgar words ....just a simple compasrson betweeen the laguage the muslims here use and non muslims use show clearly who are the real civilized .
yes i am amuslim man .i am proud of myself of being muslim and tahnk allah for creating me muslim...
and u ,it is enough that u r burning with your hetred and fear from islam...
but islam will stand and will survive forever no matter what..
and by theway islam is not made for u ..islam is for wise ,high standard people....

Don't you have any sense of humor :-)

I find Kungfumaster higly amusing. He fights the islamofacist with humor, one of the most powerfull weapons. Kungfumaster is the master of the devine insults. He has a great knowlege about Islam that's why he can produce all those highly amusing attacks against the islamofacist.

This is a typical Danish joke.
Q) What can you tell avout a 11 year old Muslim virgin ?
A) She runs faster than her father and her brothers. (ha,ha,ha)

Peace when you talk about hate. Do you still think Gays should be stoned to death ? or just beaten up ?

Thanks !

I will recommend that you will be in charge of the re-education of the Muslim world. I guess the 'North Korean' way of re-education will be best the starting point :-)


if any news paper said an opinion which is not in harmony with u even if that newspaper is a big British newspaper ,so u say it is biased..
biased with whom ..u mean muslims u think that muslims in britain have this effect...
muslims in britains donot hav eany relationship to media.they donot own newspapers or work as journalists .they dont make loby for tehir own interests...they are not lik eth ejews who control the media in USA owning the most big newsppaper and magazine..

I fell sorry for the Brits.

The Brits have been scared into submission. The Muslim terrorist that blew up the underground and busses full of civilians, won the battle so far. The papers are scared into submission by the treat of terror. I hope the Brits will regain the same currage as they had during the second word war when they stod up aginst the Nazi agression. Their pathetic police didn't try to arrest criminals calling for the death of my country men in front of the Danish embassy in London. No arrest were made. In a country where free speech exists there would have been a outrage.


and what is the problem if gays arestoned to death if you say that christianty shaped and still shape europe...
u can go in a sort visit to any church an dask if gayness is allowed in christianity or not ...and u can ask them why god destroyed sadoom town ...
anyway..all these laws are made to be applied on muslims only..
and before u go nervous...i remind u of that french minister who said recently that gayness is disgusting...
anyway ,i know it is your own way of thinking but donot expect others to agreee with u...

Your sick disbeliver.

Do you really think that gays should be stoned to death... That really shows the sickness of your religion! Gays can be married in Denmark. They have the right to be married. I will dedend their rights to do so, even if I'm not gay. Some years ago a Gay Pride parade in Copenhagen was attaced by Muslims. The Danish People Party has several leading members that are gay. They really fear the Muslim Sharia. In our sociaty the church should not interfer with legislation. We devide religious belive and law makking.

to sick balder

gayness is forbidden in judasim and christianity not only islam ..go an dask your pop.
if you are a group of gays people ...the people god once destroyed them completely..what can be said to u ..stay in your gayness as u like...and we will see.
proud that muslims in denmark attacked this gay parade and they were the reason why a similar one was cancelledd from jerusalem last summer.muslims always prove that they are alive..

Peace - no to sick religions

In Denmark we have something we are proud of: DEMOCRACY. That means - religions must accept how we live our lives.

To make violent attack towards gays - who have choosen the way they are living, is sick.

Muslims are talking a lot about showing their prophet muhammed respect. - Start to learn something about Democracy, show other cultures and people some respect first.

When the Talabans in Afghanistan destroyd some old historic Buhda statures - and created a muslim state. Where was the "democratic muslims" ? Destroying statures, belonging to another religion.

The history is repeeting itselves again. Now Muslims around the arab world, burning flags, christian churhes in Pakistan, Lagos - where is the respect to others.

Maybe muslims don't respect any ...

Thats the reason - we danes don't take our freedom for granted, but stand up for our freedom values. No religion, have a right to decide, what's acceptable in our country.

We don't need a mad dogs (Imams) to tell us, what's right or wrong. The first thing Talaban did in Afghanistan, was to destroy the education system.

Here in Denmark, the Imams don't like our education system - maybe because we have free education to everybody.

You simply don't understand

We devide between legislation and religion. Religion is a private thing. Lawmaking is the basis of the sociaty. In your world the religion is the law. That's why your kind of people can't live in a sociaty like the Danish where Gays have rights.
I feel sick when you are proud of Muslim gangs attacking peacefull Gays at a parade !!

robert fisk

robert fisk ,journalist of independant said that christianity doesnot exist in europe now .and the problem is that europeans are not able to recognize that is religion is nothing to them,it means the whole life to muslims..
if u r really open minded as u all claim to be...u would have understood that the whole world will not be like u...


This is bullshit first of all The Independant is a UK based media. That means they are biased towards Muslim propaganda.
Our culture has been shaped by Christianity for more than 1000 years. We don't put our ass up up 5 times a day to pray, but our way of thinking is based on Lutheran Christian values. Church and politics are two seperated entities. In the Muslim/Bin Laden way politics = Muslim way of living. They law is based on the primitive Sharia. Free speech will expose the evil Sharia and turn people in Europa against the Muslim infiltration. Specially in contential Europe. UK is another matter they still have the risk of being the first country in Europa where the Sharia is the law. Where there is only on religion. Where gays/rape victims are stoned to death.

To codyomega : Chicago Tribune linkk

I have got the link through lgf



Title of the post : "We' ve All Learned to Accept That"


Two hours ago it was still possible to see the full article from the Chicago Tribune, but now I tried again and they ask for registration ( it is free but they want to have too many personal infos so I do not agree).     However you can read a lenghty excerpt on lgf site.

They have won.

It's sad to see hown the British "police" handled the situation when the Muslim mob issued death threaths to my fellow Danish country men. A week the total failure of law and order, we could see on Danish national TV a week after, how the same people posed new threaths to Danes. The UK goverment and authorities allow that kind of hate speech against fellow Europeans. I'm sure we can't expect any arrest of that kind of people in countries like Iran, Syria, Pakistan and UK. The Islamist has won. They UK goverment is a islamofacoist puppet goverment. I guess the UK police can handle traffic tickets but when it comes to illegal death treaths from their Muslim friends whey will back off.

They have won - maybe a ticket ...

With all the cameras there is in major UK cities, I don't think anyone of the rabiate demonstrators can get a single ticket to USA (maybe Guantanamo)...

Showing a very hostile attitude - the only ticket they have won, is a single ticket to the Arab world - or to the nearest jail

Let's hope there is room for them in Guantanamo :-)

Unfortunatly they will need to travel outside UK to be arrested :-( Uk is a safe have for terrorist. I wonder why US/UK and others invaded Afganistan, they could arrest as many terrorist by a short trip to Londonistan.

Re: Guantanamo

American are trying not to embarrass Tony! However, he seems to be doing a good job of it himself! Also, if I hear one more article about the "Royal Twit" or "Prince Dumbo Ear!" * this is extremely harsh diaglogue coming from me as I ama Monarchist at heart! heheh!* I shall go mad.. Yet peace, and them seem to believe that Charles in his kilt is a refreshing bit of wind, blowing their way. He cannot take care of his Own: private affairs! I hardly see why he has to always be announced as the gospel according to muslims.. Hej! Do you think they, the muslims of Londonistan, have promised him the throne already! It does seem that there is an awful lot of muslim toe kissing going on in London these days, though!

Odin be Praised! Baldur Save Us!

To Kung Fu Master! Ah so!!!!!!!

KUNGFUMASTER! WE Think YOU ARE GREAT! *slips you a black market quran* Shhhh! Whatever you feel like doing with it! Mum's the word! *looks this way and that* We were never hear..we never had this conversation!* hands you some por ki ng chicken ( like a 400 - 800 peking style duck - oi nk oi nk!) We do not want them hungry either! * raising an eyebrow and disappearing off to Kung Fu Gerbil Masters Ninja School*

Odin be Praised! Baldur Save Us!

I guess he sees himself as

I guess he sees himself as the first Great Mufti of Londonistan :-) After the introduction of the Sharia law he can decapitate all the disbelivers, stone all the whores and gays.. Just kidding. He is just a dickless prick that wants peace with the radical muslims. He fears the bombs that's the reason for his submissive behaviour. Apeasement will give him a few years of peace then everything will explode when the Brits are pushed to far.

What UK need

What UK need is a new leader, ala Margaret Thatcher. After the 60's and 70's with labor, she did change the country.

Mr. Blairs cabinet, is just runned by some smart slogans (created by some professionals¨Marketing companies), with no content at all.

By showing the muslims "tolerance & understanding" they are offending our freedom

Hillary for President!!!!! - Clintonian multicultural NBA

Here excerpt of the Chicago Tribune from Little Green Footballs( up to few hours ago it was possible to see the full article but now Chicago Tribune requires subscription )

The Chicago Tribune’s article on Muslim girls who play basketball has a completely inappropriate cheery tone for its disturbing subject—the dark ages repression of young girls, now in a Chicago suburb: They’ve got game—and hijab. (Hat tip: Ethel.)

Duaa Hamoud holds a basketball to her hip. She is standing in a long blue gown in a gym at Bridgeview’s Universal School. Her head is covered in a white scarf pulled tightly around her neck. Not a wisp of hair is showing.

Around her, other high school girls dressed in similar flowing robes shoot a few casual baskets while they wait for practice to begin. There are no men in the gym—no male coaches, no boys from school, no dads or brothers in the bleachers.

So when the coach arrives and the real training starts, they can peel off their Islamic dress, exposing their sweat pants and short-sleeved T-shirts underneath.

“We’d run if we noticed a man peeking in the window,” Hamoud, 16, explains. “We’re not allowed to be seen by guys without [Islamic dress]. We’ve all learned to accept that.”

But the girls can’t accept that they have only been allowed to compete against girls basketball teams from other Muslim schools. There are only four in the Chicago area, they complain, and their competition isn’t exactly tough.

Since last year they’ve been beseeching Coach Farida Abusafa, 26, an English teacher who also coaches sports, to ask public schools and non-Muslim private schools if their girls teams would be willing to compete against girls from the Universal School.

The problem is the schools would have to agree to bar men and boys above the age of puberty from watching the games.

“It’s not like it’s a sin to play a public school,” Abusafa said. “The problem is the males coming to the game.”

How long before men are barred from watching basketball, to accommodate the sensitivities of this intolerant, misogynistic strain of Islam?


UK government's weighty responsibility with BBC backing.

We must give the highest evidence to the fact that UK's politicians of "straw" have been the front runners in endorsing, although indirectly, the violence that culminated in the torching of Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus on Feb. 4th and the Danish one in Beirut on Feb.5th.

The first virulent demonstration erupted in London on Feb. 3rd, with NO REACTION FROM BRITISH AUTHORITIES.
The whole world has witnessed Muslim would-be-slaughters allowed to roam freely in the London's streets calling for beheading the offenders, vaunting the Sept-11 and July-7 "exploits" and threatening more punishments of the like to the "infidels" while the police was standing idle.

Whoever had a minimum awareness of the way the Islamists' mentality works would have understood that such acquiescence was inevitably bound to be interpreted in the Muslim world as a clear signal: if the Britons ( thus their American cousins’ tribe as well ) do not stand up to defend the Danish even in UK, it means that the Muslims in THEIR countries are fully entitled to punish Denmark as they please.

In the "submission" mentality strength comes first : if the bigger and stronger tribes do not side with the smaller ones then the weaker tribe is done for.

Would someone in the UK's government dare to assert that they did not have enough awareness about how the Muslim mind works and therefore they couldn't foresee such "unpleasant" further developments? Their very stance has been absolutely instrumental in turning the events that followed into UNAVOIDABLE violence. Should a zero tolerance policy have been enforced in London on Feb. 3rd the whole affair would have most probably taken a by far less dramatic turn and course.

Besides, Feb. 3rd is completely omitted by the BBC in the "Row Timeline" published on its online news.
A "timeline" is a succession of events whose sequential nature of cause and effect, if any, is given the due prominence. By omitting to include in the "Row Timeline" the Feb. 3rd London's virulent protest the BBC tried, although in vain, to hide the sequential nature that links what happened in Damascus on Feb. 4th and in Beirut on Feb. 5th to what happened in London on Feb. 3rd, thus brushing under the carpet the unmistakable role played by UK's politicians of "straw" in giving the green light to further escalation of the violence.
Indeed, according to the interpretation that the BBC is implicitly trying to sell out, Feb. 3rd is not worth mentioning in the “Row timeline” because nothing really relevant happened!!

Obviously they could not avoid to provide some footage and comments on the police's passivity, since both the would-be-slaughters' misdeeds and the police's acquiescence took place blatantly.

BBC's choice to omit the inclusion of Feb. 3rd London's events in the "Row Timeline" tells us a long story on its very commitment to honest reporting, whose top priority should be enabling the people to understand the true reasons that lie behind the events: that's not the BBC's case. In fact what they are aiming to is exactly the opposite : preventing the people from understanding!

In fairness the politicians of "straw" attitude in confronting would-be-slaughters' violence in EU's big towns cannot be ascribed to UK's government only : in Belgium and Holland both government and MSM behaved even worse and, I suppose, we haven't seen yet the end of it, but UK carries the unenviable responsibility of having been the first in endorsing the rules of the game.